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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Well, I thought maybe I had found a replacement for Frederick's of Hollywood.

    Henry & June (lingerie) has reversed all my sales for January so far - except for one.

    At least they're showing diversity in reasons (returned merchandise, invalid credit card, and "other")

    Big Dogs kept saying "invalid credit card" (5 times in a row one month).

    So, what am I saying? If a merchant is going to rip me off, I prefer a diversity of reasons for reversals.

    Henry & June got it going on! Unfortunately, they don't get the thousands of impressions each day for me any longer.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Nothing is worse than F.O.H. - Nothing.

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    Well, I thought maybe I had found a replacement for Frederick's of Hollywood.

    Henry & June (lingerie) has reversed all my sales for January so far - except for one.
    I dumped Frederick's of Hollywood about 6 months ago because of their overall bogus attitudes and I haven't made a dime YET with Henry and June but I sure do like the site~!


    Did H&J produce any kind of explanation for the reversals?
    Are they difficult to correspond with?

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

  4. #4
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    I use Henry and June for my site too.

    So far, they are reponsive. When I emailed to them about a parasite, they dropped that parasite right away. The other merchants turned a deaf ear.

    When I ask them for some products to fill in gaps on my site, they responded that they would bring lots of these in within the next few weeks.

    I experienced the reversal problem too and just emailed them about it. Waiting for their reply.

    They are among the better merchants around and way better the Fredericks of Hollywood.

  5. #5
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    I discovered this post thanks to an affiliate who asked about her transaction reversals. As the Henry & June Affiliate Program Manager, I appreciate the opportunity to respond to the various issues raised in this thread.

    The first thing to understand about our program is that if we don't ship an order, we think it's fair to cancel the commission. Affiliates that send us poor quality customers should not be rewarded.

    The second thing to note is we don't cheat our affiliates. If we reverse a commission, it's because either the credit card was declined, the order was identified as fraudulent, the customer cancelled the order prior to shipping, or the order was returned for a refund. Any of these are legitimate reasons to cancel a commission. Our web store does not perform real-time credit card authorizations, so the credit card is not checked until after the order is submitted and a sale is recorded in Commission Junction. Credit card problems are the number one reason by far for reversing a commission.

    I invite any affiliate at any time to test our system by placing an order of their own (or having a friend do so). We have no way of knowing whether you're placing a test order, so your order won't receive any special treatment (other than the special treatment we provide all our customers!).

    The third thing to know is we use a little known feature in our sales tracking code (the code that appears in our online receipt page which notifies CJ of a sale) that results in the tracking cookie NOT being deleted. Normally, CJ deletes the tracking cookie upon a sale, which means you don't get commissions on repeat orders. You can check this when placing a test order (from us or any other CJ program you belong to) by looking for KEEP=YES in the tracking code on the receipt page (ours appears towards the very bottom of the source code). We email customers whose credit card has declined and encourage them to return to our site and place a new order. If they do so, you'll get credit for that commission (assuming the new credit card goes through). We also use a 365-day cookie duration, which puts some teeth into our effort to reward you for repeat sales.

    For those of you that have questions about specific transactions, feel free to email me and ask about them (be sure to include a transaction # so I can locate the transaction). I can't give out personal information about our customers, but I can tell you the specific reason why a transaction was reversed.

    While we don't have the brand name recognition of Frederick's of Hollywood, I invite everybody to compare our service to theirs, or any other online lingerie store.

    Thank you for reading this and feel free to email me directly with any questions (I'll also continue to monitor this thread).


    Doug Churchill

    HENRY & JUNE LINGERIE
    Fax: +1-775-825-8867
    partners@henryandjune.com
    http://www.henryandjune.com
    -------------------------------
    Your private, sexy lingerie store

  6. #6
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    I just joined Henry & June yesterday for a new site I'm making that needs lingerie links. It looks like a great site and does appear to be "affiliate friendly" so I'm adding their link.

    On the other hand - I applied to Fredericks of Hollywood and got rejected by an affiliate manager who thinks he/she is a fortune teller and doesn't like giving affiliates a chance. He/she is wasting potential sales for their company and is creating bad PR as well by a pathetic affiliate rejection policy. (ahhhh..... now that felt better).


    Larry Wentz
    www.AffiliateNetwork.org
    www.MultipleDomainHosting.net

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    Affiliates that send us poor quality customers should not be rewarded.



    I use you but don't seem to get too many sales. Makes one wonder what other witches wear under their robes, anyhow. LOL

    But, what you wrote intrigues me. How the heck does someone send you poor quality customers? We put the sites up, try to get in the search engines and hope someone buys. We have no control over who sees the merchandise and pulls out a credit card.

    I had one merchant tell me I was sending poor quality customers hence the reversals. Funny thing, I found an independent merchant with the exact same products. You guessed it, I am sending him the exact same customers from the exact same pages and in several months he has had only one reversal. And, BTW, he pays 5% more because he doesn't use a network. (You all know who I mean.)

    I am not saying anything about your program, here. It is just that I wonder about how one gets poor quality customers. Must come under the heading of one person's fat is another person's bacon.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on February 10, 2003 at 03:29 PM.]

  8. #8
    15 years and counting
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    I had no problem so far with Henry & June. Never had a reversal. No complain.

    I was doing good with Frederick's of Hollywood before they went crazy and had to say, Bye.

    I'm planning to replace all my links with Henry & June. KEEP=YES for cookies is fair. Pay for performance means to don't get commission if the order is fraudulent, it's fair also.

    Glad to see you at ABW, Doug. Welcome

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:

    Affiliates that send us poor quality customers should not be rewarded.




    We're quite aware what kind of traffic we have, and you will not enjoy our "poor quality" customers any longer.

    We did not send you street people with credit cards they found in a dumpster.

    Why come all our other merchants very rarily ever do reversals (ever), especially "declined credit card" and "other", yet 5 sales in row get reversed by you for such reasons?

    You are the 4th such merchant to do this to us:
    Big Dogs, Frederick's of Hollywood, Ebay, and Henry & June.

    All these merchants will continue to have their products heavily targeted and we will sell them for other merchants.

  10. #10
    15 years and counting
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    5 sales even in a row are not enough to judge the quality of a merchant.
    The sales could come from the same person with the same stolen card.

    Just my opinion.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  11. #11
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    Howdy Zeus!

    When the same person comes back to our site on different days in the month, and returns his/her merchandise the first time, uses an invalid credit card the second time, engages in "other" the third, and so on....

    That's one messed up person!

  12. #12
    15 years and counting
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    I was thinking the sales were placed the same day. Several times, I had the same person buying a bunch of things from one of my web sites, different merchants, same invalid CC.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  13. #13
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Henry & June Affiliate Manager:

    Thank you for reading this and feel free to email me directly with any questions (I'll also continue to monitor this thread).


    Doug Churchill

    HENRY & JUNE LINGERIE
    Fax: +1-775-825-8867
    partners@henryandjune.com
    http://www.henryandjune.com
    -------------------------------
    Your private, sexy lingerie store



    Welcome to the ABW family Doug !!

    Stay a while, we need more good quality merchants. The regulars can be rough some times, however there are plenty of diamonds in the group!

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com
    ICQ: 175010
    AIM: miamitigercub

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Another opportunity to knock FOH - They stink, they're terrible.

    Okay, now that that is out of the way, I will tell you that H&J has been with CJ for a long time now (measured in years), they have a great cookie duration, individual product links, few reversals (at least for us anyway), and are just generally good.

    We use H&J for the more racy crowd, versus more traditional underwear (someone looking for Olga Bras as an example). The models at H&J are a little hotter looking (and more exposed), and we market them accordingly.

    Welcome to ABW Henry and June, I hope you will make an effort to participate regularly here - it will pay off in spades for you.

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  15. #15
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    To Kelly626:

    I apologize if I offended you. My remark about poor quality customers was not intended towards you or any other particular affiliate, but rather a general statement that some affiliates may send poor quality customers (we do have affiliates that send poor quality traffic, i.e., people that just want to look at pictures). If you would like me to address your particular reversals and see what's going on, please send me a private email with transaction numbers and I'll reply in kind with details.

    I'll respond in more detail to everybody else, but I'm being recruited for packing orders in the warehouse, so I've got to go...


    Doug Churchill

    HENRY & JUNE LINGERIE
    Fax: +1-775-825-8867
    partners@henryandjune.com
    http://www.henryandjune.com
    -------------------------------
    Your private, sexy lingerie store

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yep, welcome aboard, Doug.

    quote:
    some affiliates may send poor quality customers


    I think you will find the affiliates here are pretty streight shooters for the most part.

    There are always two sides to the story. Since you are brave, honest, trusty and true, it may surprise you ro learn that there are a group of merchants who think nothing of stealing the production of the hours of our lives. Please, be prepared to encounter some mistrust. As we get to know you, it will go away and, hopefully, our friendship will prove to be of mutual benefit.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    I dislike saying "Me too," but here it is. What Ssanf said is exactly true - you can count on it.

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  18. #18
    Schlaumeier cumbrowski's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Henry & June Affiliate Manager:
    Our web store does not perform real-time credit card authorizations, so the credit card is not checked until after the order is submitted and a sale is recorded in Commission Junction. Credit card problems are the number one reason by far for reversing a commission.



    Hi Doug,

    I just placed a (non-commissionable) fake order on your site (I made in pretty much clear in every field, that it is a fake order).

    Here the results of my testing:

    1.
    You seem to perform a credit card number check based on a formula although I am not 100% sure, if you use "the real" one, because another fake number, that should work (4242 4242 4242 4242) didn't.


    Your Site is programmed in ASP. contact me and I can send you an ASP Source Script that is doing the correct mathematical check of the credit card number.

    I placed the order with another test credit card number, which also would pass the mathematical check (4111 1111 1111 1111). What bugs me, is that you actually display that WORKING number as example for a credit card.
    I just copied and pasted it and the order went through.

    Replace the example with a none working fake number like: 1234 1234 1234 1234

    Please also verify , that selected expiration dates are checked. You may do, but I don't want to create another fake order to test that.

    2.
    If you have an internet enabled merchant account and use service providers like
    http://www.verisign.com/products/payment.html , http://www.2checkout.com/ , http://www.eftsecure.com/ or others, spend the few cents per order to perform a small authorization transaction (1 cent, 1 dollar etc.) to check the credit card.
    It will reduce (A LOT), but not solve the problem, since you still don't know if the credit card will be declined when you want to charge it prior the shipment, because it got disabled in the meantime or the custome has not enough available credit for the purchase.

    If you don't have an internet enabled merchant account or/and online credit card processor check http://www.3rdpartyprocessors.com/ for infos and smaller online services or contact your bank, where you have your regular merchant account.

    Carsten

    Shop-Links.net Partner
    http://www.shop-links.net
    Sign-up for our Affiliate Program
    http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale...erchantID=2123

    If you can't move things, try harder!

    [This message was edited by Carsten, Shop-Links on February 10, 2003 at 11:19 PM.]

    [This message was edited by Carsten, Shop-Links on February 10, 2003 at 11:21 PM.]

  19. #19
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    Thanks to everyone who welcomed me to the forum and who offered words of support! I welcome constructive criticism, though, as much as compliments, so fire away if you're interested in helping us improve our program. I'm keenly aware that the affialiate/merchant relationship is a partnership and that your success is linked to ours. I've got some thoughts about questions some of you posed:


    WHY THE DISPARITY IN REVERSAL RATES?
    Some affiliates have complained that other merchants don't reverse any sales (or only a very small percentage). I can't speak for those merchants, but I can hazard some guesses. Perhaps they've factored that into their commission rate, product prices or shipping fees. They might be using an Internet payment gateway and are able to reject declined/fraudulent orders before the order is finalized (we don't attempt authorizations until the orders are in our fulfillment system). They may not have the means yet for keeping track of which orders should be reversed. You all know how slow the CJ interface is and trying to reverse transactions manually isn't feasible. We've automated our system and submit corrections in one monthly batch -- it's not trivial.


    HOW CAN A SITE SEND POOR QUALITY CUSTOMERS?
    There is a segment of the population that tends to live with maxed out credit cards, though I don't know what their demographic is (I'll bet the credit card industry knows). What if an affiliate's site, and I'm sure this would be accidental, offered content that drew visitors who matched the same demographic as "Maxed Out Credit Card Users?" Isn't it conceivable that the affiliate's site could send customers whose orders tended to be declined more often than another site's that drew a different demographic? This is just speculation on my part.


    DISHONEST MERCHANTS
    I've heard the horror stories about dishonest merchants and I feel your pain. It effects us, too, because as you've seen here, the initial attitude we often face is that we're dishonest until we prove otherwise. I'd like to think that the merchants that do cheat will not last long.


    Doug Churchill

    HENRY & JUNE LINGERIE
    Fax: +1-775-825-8867
    partners@henryandjune.com
    http://www.henryandjune.com
    -------------------------------
    Your private, sexy lingerie store

  20. #20
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    I'd like to think that the merchants that do cheat will not last long.



    Well, they don't survive too well with this gang. But, there are always new and inexperienced affiliates every day. But, they too wise up soon or they are soon out of business.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    What if an affiliate's site, and I'm sure this would be accidental, offered content that drew visitors who matched the same demographic as "Maxed Out Credit Card Users?"


    Really, all I know is the statistics of which merchants have much higher reversal rates compared to other merchants - for the same traffic.

    Also factoring in what exactly the merchant happens to sell. I run two merchants with identical types of products...subject them both to the same traffic...one merchant has a significantly higher reversal rate than the other.

    What's it all mean? It means I dump the merchant with the high reversal rate.

  22. #22
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    Okay Kelly626, I wish you the best. If you change your mind and want to email me the transactions numbers so I can investigate, the offer's still open.

    Doug

    HENRY & JUNE LINGERIE
    Fax: +1-775-825-8867
    nospam_partners@henryandjune.com
    http://www.henryandjune.com

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    (we do have affiliates that send poor quality traffic, i.e., people that just want to look at pictures).
    That's one of the things I love the most about setting up around lingerie sites~!
    I think I remember saving the pictures BEFORE I even signed up for the program.
    If everyone didn't like it . . . it wouldn't exist~!

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

  24. #24
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    I completely understand, Brian. Men are visually oriented, and I'm no exception!

    We have one affiliate that targets male readers who has set up their links in a way that the readers think their clicking photos to get larger photos. We get a ton of traffic from them, but as you can imagine, they're not exactly qualified buyers. On the other hand, enough of them do place orders and despite their abysmal EPC, we're not about to terminate them.

    Doug

    HENRY & JUNE LINGERIE
    Fax: +1-775-825-8867
    nospam_partners@henryandjune.com
    http://www.henryandjune.com

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kelly626:
    subject them both to the same traffic...one merchant has a significantly higher reversal rate than the other.
    It occurs to me that one factor here could be one merchant checking the credit card before ever accepting the order, thus not having nearly the reversals since the order didn't get that far in the first place.
    quote:
    What's it all mean?
    If each of the merchants have similar pricing and similar actual sales levels i.e. the one with no reversals has 20 sales, but the other one also has 20 sales (say even 40 overall with with 20 reversals), it perhaps is simply an indication of their verification methods.

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