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  1. #1
    Newbie
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    August 15th, 2012
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    Commission Junction Removal - Non Bona Fide Transactions
    I'm beyond upset with CJ today.
    Is it even legal to do this to an affiliate?
    How can giant corporation do this to small affiliate?
    Guilty by default? What the hell is going on here?

    There is a famous lawsuit against Google that proved that you can't be punished for ANY reason.
    They have to explain it to you due to racial discrimination etc...

    To prevent any flame wars: NO I DID NOT DO ANYTHING THAT VIOLATES THEIR TERMS

    I'm new to CJ. Just opened my account 2 month ago.
    Got my small commission a month ago.

    Today I received this email. (See below)
    No prior email. No explanation and no Response back...

    "This letter shall serve as notice that your publisher account has been terminated and removed from the Commission Junction Network and transactions may be reversed ("charged-back"). This termination and removal is the result of non-bona fide transactions performed on your account in violation of the Commission Junction Publisher Service Agreement you agreed to follow. Non-bona fide transactions include, but are not limited to, false, self-inflated, and/or duplicate leads or transactions.

    You are not eligible to rejoin the Commission Junction Network and any attempt to do so shall be null and void.

    From CJ Terms

    "(ii) Non-Bona Fide Transactions. You must promote Advertisers such that You do not mislead the Visitor, and such that the Links deliver bona fide Transactions by the Visitor to Advertiser from the Link. You shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith, including, but not limited to, using any device, program, robot, Iframes, or hidden frames. You may or may not be compensated for Transactions where You or Your agent are the Visitor. Multiple Leads from the same individual, entity or IP address may be considered non-bona fide Transactions. You shall not earn Payouts for non-bona fide Transactions."

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  3. #2
    Member
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    February 8th, 2008
    Location
    London, UK. Innit!
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    157
    I know it must be horrible but at least it wasn't a big amount of money, if it was a small amount a month ago, why do you care?

    There are other affiliate networks out there.

  4. #3
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    August 15th, 2012
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    I don't like to get screwed one way or another. It was "just a tip" argument doesn't cut it. $300 maybe small but they are MINE and I deserve every penny...

  5. #4
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    April 5th, 2005
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    Is it possible that your site had adware which send fraudulent transactions? Were you promoting retail merchants or lead generation?

  6. #5
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    April 6th, 2006
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    Sorry to hear about your troubles.

    How were you promoting merchants - via your own site, PPC, etc..? You do need to get to the root of this - as Chuck said, is it possible there was something on your site that caused the problem?

  7. #6
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    August 15th, 2012
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    @Chuck

    This is So funny... Why do you assume that everyone uses adware?
    I'm not ShopAtHome. Those guys been there for years and they
    are on #1 Spot in Cookie Stuffing report.

    How can you get to the root of something when nobody responds to your emails?

    Affiliates should NOT put up with this abuse. We are not children and don't need
    this huge corporate abuse of power.

    If you had the same experience as an affiliate and frustrated with this BS just let me know..

    If I have enough people I'll talk to my good friend (he is an attorney) and we can file a small claims that will set a precedent here.

    "Search Why I Sued Google (and Won)"

  8. #7
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    April 5th, 2005
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    No one said you installed adware, we suggested you check your serve to determine otherwise. You didn't answer our questions but got defensive. Good luck with your case with CJ.

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  10. #8
    Newbie
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    August 15th, 2012
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    So now I am guilty by default?
    Everyone is guilty because they are prepared to defend their rights?

    It's written up front
    To prevent any flame wars: NO I DID NOT DO ANYTHING THAT VIOLATES THEIR TERMS.

  11. #9
    Moderator
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    April 6th, 2006
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    NO I DID NOT DO ANYTHING THAT VIOLATES THEIR TERMS
    Why are you yelling at US...??

    Someone saw something serious enough to have your account closed, and while you may not have done something yourself, there could be something ON your site that caused the problem. CMS templates, scripts, someone else with access... malicious installation, etc.

    And no one said you were guilty by default.. you may want to ease up on the attitude here if you want some help.

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  13. #10
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 22nd, 2007
    Location
    West Covina, CA
    Posts
    8,443
    Hi ivladimir,

    Sorry to hear about your problems with CJ, I do hope, however, that you are in fact more well versed in affiliate marketing than you are on the law. You have misinterpreted not only the Google case but several legal principles.

    First, a small claims court case is not precedent, and can be cited in no court for establishing any rule of law.

    As to the Google case, yes, Mr Greenspan won in small claims court, but Google appealed the case to the Santa Clara County Superior Court, and lost, wiping out his original judgment and, as a matter of law, any real record of the original decision. One reason why small claims court decisions are not law is that, as in Mr. Greenspan's case, the great majority of small claims cases are heard and decided not by judges, but by judges pro tem, who are attorneys, donating their time to sit as judges, usually one day every three to six months. When the case was finally adjudicated in front of a "real" judge, the law of the state of California was upheld, and Google prevailed.

    As to that law, terms of service as propounded by the Googles and CJs of the internet world, universally state that certain actions are verboten, and when traced to a member's site, are grounds for dismissal. When the private empire (a term used to describe ExxonMobil but equally applicable to Google) sees such actions, the industry standard clearly has developed to where it is immediate dismissal, and just try to get back (See all the threads from a couple of years ago re Google AdSense/GAN dismissals).

    Sometimes, you can get to a real person and plead your case that you were faultless but rather a victim, and can be let back in, but that seldom occurs.

    Finally, your reference to racial discrimination opens a whole separate set of issues. Federal law and state laws have developed what are called "subject categories" that make certain types of actions illegal when proven to have been taken for the wrong reasons. When an injured party can prove by a preponderance of the evidence, that actions that caused him or her damage were taken against him or her, due to discrimination based on race, religion, national origin, or sex, and not for any legitimate business reason, then they may have a claim under such laws. Can you prove that 1) CJ knows that you are a minority included under one of the first three categories or because of being a woman or in some cases a man, or under a few laws, gay)?and 2) That that was the reason for their action and no other existed?

    Good luck.

    Lengthy post, written from 35,000 ft, late at night, while returning home from Affiliate Summit.

    Added - Caveats
    1. This is not legal advice. Consult your own attorney if you pursue legal action.
    2. CJ is a California corporation and their TOS provide that any and all disputes are to be decided under California law. Thus, you would have to file any lawsuit against them in California.
    Last edited by Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound; August 16th, 2012 at 01:35 AM. Reason: Added caveats
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

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  15. #11
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    August 15th, 2012
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    Thank you AffiliateHound
    Greatly appreciate your feedback. I am aware that Google case was reversed only to prove my point that If everyone cared about their rights and took this matter to an arbitration empires would be less likely to steamroll anyone in the future. It would raise awareness of the misconducts by faceless corporations blaming everything on the algorithms.

    Precedent not only important in legal terms but also means that it is possible to get a judgement against "black box empires" built with a sole purpose to squeeze money from the clicks.

    If a single case is won in small claims court (for non payment for example) (you can't just take my money and NOT pay me when I have clear screenshots of the reports, I have the right o dispute your reversals) it will set a precedence (maybe not in criminal field just yet, due to nature of legal process) for all to pursue the same action. It can be documented and we can create a blue print on how to stand up to the abuse.

    Now to a racial question:
    If I can't claim that they discriminated against me without evidence
    how can they claim that I abused something without any evidence whatsoever?

    See any problem here?

  16. #12
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    August 15th, 2012
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    Just read this...

    "Google can terminate your account for any reason," she told me.

    "Not any reason," I said. "Not because I have blue eyes. Or brown eyes." After being told to quiet down by the courtroom guard, we decided that we had reached an impasse, exchanged documents, and went back into the court room.

    Arguing before that day's pro tempore judge, I pointed out that my company had done nothing wrong to deserve termination of the contract, that Google could not prove any wrongdoing, that Google's fraud detection algorithm was imperfect by definition (since one cannot intuit moral intent through mathematical analysis), that advertisers must already agree to bear risk as part of the AdWords terms and conditions (clause 5), and that Google had gone to great lengths (including eliminating the ability to view account records) to make it difficult to dispute anything--all while owing Think money. In fact, terminating accounts for "posing significant risk" just when they started to earn significant amounts of money seemed like a great way for Google to cut accounting liabilities in a difficult economic climate. After my explanation, the judge had a question.

    "What was the reason Google gave you for disabling your account?"

    "Beyond, 'posing a signficicant risk to advertisers,' they didn't give a reason." I said. "I don't know."

  17. #13
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    Instead of getting into a full-blown legal analysis here - which won't get your problem solved - have you reviewed any of the following..?
    Someone saw something serious enough to have your account closed, and while you may not have done something yourself, there could be something ON your site that caused the problem. CMS templates, scripts, someone else with access... malicious installation, etc.
    If you're not getting a response from CJ, how about contacting the merchant for which you generated the sales?

  18. #14
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    August 15th, 2012
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    Teezone this is a great idea!

    IF I COULD LOG INTO AN ACCOUNT or IF I KNEW WHAT TRANSACTION CJ REFERS TO...

    You see the root of the problem here...

  19. #15
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    Seriously, dude, skip the sarcasm and the yelling... you do know that people are trying to help you, right..?

    You opened your CJ account 2 months ago, which means you probably only had time to join a handful of merchants... it's not difficult to contact each one of those politely to discuss your situation with them.

    So how many merchants were you promoting..? It had to be one of them..

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  21. #16
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 24th, 2005
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    You can stop with comparing what happened in that case with the Google. Not relevant.

    This is a civil matter - not a criminal matter. There is no "innocent until proven guilty".

    CJ claims something was violated in their TOS. To protect their merchants and their network, they deemed it necessary to terminate you from their network. Throwing a temper tantrum won't get you any closer to answers. There is a proper way to conduct business in order to try and resolve issues. I have heard where CJ has made mistakes in the past with terminating an affiliate - however, not one threw a hissy fit to get to the bottom of the problem and got reinstated.

    Be professional...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...


  22. #17
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    August 15th, 2012
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    @teezone,
    Everyone is so helpful and I really appreciate that...

    So you are moderator, Can you please tell me how I am supposed
    to contact merchants when I don't have any contact information
    or discuss a transaction I don't have access to?

    @Covergence
    If I asked you to prepay for my services and I never delivered them to you
    and claimed that you violated my terms of conditions without any explanation
    I would like to see your professional reaction...

  23. #18
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivladimir View Post
    @Covergence
    If I asked you to prepay for my services and I never delivered them to you
    and claimed that you violated my terms of conditions without any explanation
    I would like to see your professional reaction...
    In my youth I would have jumped in my car, drove at dangerous speeds, confronted you face to face and kicked your ass.

    But as an adult, with real responsibilities, I have learned how to do things properly - includes business.

    We each have our own growth cycle - until you go to the next stage in your cycle, you will be unable to see where you have been.

    Good luck...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  24. #19
    Moderator
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    So you are moderator, Can you please tell me how I am supposed
    to contact merchants when I don't have any contact information
    or discuss a transaction I don't have access to?
    My comments have nothing to do with being a moderator - I'm an affiliate, just like you.

    If you can't find simple contact information, sorry I can't help you.. I have saved emails from merchants I've joined, whether it's their latest promotion, or even just the "welcome" email. If you are serious about this as a business, you would know where to start, instead of blaming everyone. Yes, we get you're frustrated, but you have to lose the over-emotion, and start a professional dialogue with your merchants.

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  26. #20
    ABW Ambassador Georgie Peri's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
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    Need answers? Why not try to contact them via there support line!

    Contact Us | CJ US
    OpA! Giasou Ti kanies!

  27. #21
    Grandma broke her coccyx! Uncle Rico's Avatar
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    May 8th, 2007
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    So how many merchants were you joined to?

  28. #22
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    August 15th, 2012
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    I get it. The message is just wipe your face. Think that it was rain. Be happy they were kind enough to let you in. Forget countless hours you spent working for free. Smile and be professional.

    To sum up.

    Get in line. Don't ask questions. Or ELSE...

  29. #23
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    August 15th, 2012
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    @Georgie Peri
    The answer is please refer to your original email... We do not discuss this over the phone...

    @Uncle
    Once I am able to login I'll be able to tell you exactly. Oh wait...

  30. #24
    Grandma broke her coccyx! Uncle Rico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivladimir View Post
    @Georgie Peri
    The answer is please refer to your original email... We do not discuss this over the phone...

    @Uncle
    Once I am able to login I'll be able to tell you exactly. Oh wait...
    Everyone here knows you can't log back into CJ, but I assume you would have a ballpark figure in your head on how many merchants you applied to and got approved.

  31. #25
    Newbie
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    August 15th, 2012
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    I think about 200, Not sure how does it help here?
    Should I waste even more time and write an email to each and every one of them?

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