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  1. #1
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    My understanding of the new CAN-SPAM law that goes into effect 1/1/04 is that all commercial emails are now required to include a PHYSICAL postal address (not a PO Box) and phone number.

    Like many (or most?) other pure online businesses, I run my business out of my home. I have a PO Box for the business. I have a business phone line which I use for my merchants, but I don't publicize it to the world.

    My newsletter list has been grown over the course of several years through signup forms on my site (which I removed today). I've never "bought" subscribers or acquired subscribers in any other way.

    For me, my newsletter generates somewhere around 1% of my income. I don't make enough from it to justify leasing an office and hiring a service to answer phone calls.

    Given the liability of being found not in compliance with the new laws, I'll be discontinuing my newsletter on January 1st.

    Is anyone else doing the same?

    Does anyone have a different interpretation of the CAN-SPAM law?

    I hope this law works to curtail spamming, but I suspect that the primary impact will be on legitimate businesses.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    I have discontinued my newsletter too Michael...

    <a href="http://www.xtremeshopping.org/about.htm" target="_blank"><font face="Verdana" size="1">About us</font></a><font face="Verdana" size="1"> |<a href="http://www.xtremeshopping.org/partnerships.html" target="_blank">Contact us</a>| <a href="http://www.xtremeshopping.org/poetry.html" target="_blank">poetry</a> | <a href="http://www.xtremeshopping.org/parasiteware.html" target="_blank">fighting parasiteware</a><br>
    AIM: ssn Jason<br>
    Favorite quote: "<b>You can do it on your own, but you don't have to do it alone</b>"</font>

    Hmm have you seen my <a href="http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=548608979&f=986605689&m=7406096484&r=7406096484#7406096484">pic?<a>, <a href="http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=548608979&f=179600589&m=5876081315&p=2"target="_blank">Affiliate goals<a>

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
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    I am thinking the same. I also run an affiliate program for newsletter sign-up. Thinking about shutting down that too. I track sales generated from email newsletters. Never seen any good result anyway.

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    Once again,

    Ye affilite pirates want a business, but don't want to run it like one.

    Aye

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Make the Ad Whore spammers walk the plank.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  6. #6
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MichaelColey:
    Given the liability of being found not in compliance with the new laws, I'll be discontinuing my newsletter on January 1st.

    Is anyone else doing the same?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I also currently run my business out of my house, and I will just use that address and my business phone.

    Why do you consider that a problem?

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom, Inc.

    http://www.affiliatemanager.net - tools and resources for affiliate managers

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I also currently run my business out of my house, and I will just use that address and my business phone.

    Why do you consider that a problem? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    With all the wierdos and Whackos in the world, you must be kidding!

    Sure, this old grandma is going to send out a Pagan newsletter and include my real address so it can fall into the hands of some fruitcake who thinks it is their duty to burn witches.

    What are you, crazy?

    This actually impinges on my ability to communicate freely.

    I would appreciate ideas and suggestions.



    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  8. #8
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I also currently run my business out of my house, and I will just use that address and my business phone.

    Why do you consider that a problem? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>With all the wierdos and Whackos in the world, you must be kidding!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly.

    I'm sure if I listed my phone number, the phone calls I would get would be virtually identical to the emails I currently get...

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>I have a wholesale lot of 18,000 purses that I can sell to you for $0.80 each. (No, I don't buy or sell anything.)<LI>How can I order over the phone? (No, I don't buy or sell anything.)<LI>Do you sell this item in purple? (No, I don't buy or sell anything.)<LI>When I try to click through the links, they don't work. I don't know how to remove the adware that is blocking them. (I have parasite removal instructions online.)<LI>When will you be shipping my order? (I don't ship anything.)<LI>I'm wanting to start a new site selling ???. Would you list me? (No.)<LI>Could you link to my site? (No.)<LI>I got a $9.99 charge on my credit card. Please remove. (I don't buy or sell anything.)[/list]I don't want these emails. I don't want to receive these as phone calls. At least with emails, I can delete/ignore them fairly quickly. I'm more than happy to answer legitimate emails, and usually do so within minutes or hours of receipt. I'm even happy to give out my business line for people with a legitimate need for it (usually merchants or the press).

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    In 7 years I've never received a irrate e-mail from an Ecomcity shopper. I've gotten occassional phone calls from folks who saw a great deal that went OOS and they wonder about suitable replacements. I then recommend even a better deal from my stock of dealer/merchants if they choose to even order by phomne with no commission involved. Some follow instructions and click through my links and buy from the recommended source.

    The idea behind not being bothered by 5.1 million visitors to Ecomcity is to NEVER put up a link to some slocky merchant for the chance opportunity of a lead or commission. I screen all my merchnats for customer service and trust worthy site design before they get a visitor from me. The con-job middlemen with monitary motives beyond providing a product or service can kiss my butt before I let their sleeze bag marketing efforts make my phone or e-mail box fill up with complaints.

    Same philosophy is used by all my webmaster merchant clients. No tricks,no bait-n-switch, no spamm -no charging cards till order is shipped.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  10. #10
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gearshopper:
    Ye affilite pirates want a business, but don't want to run it like one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Who said that a business has to have a physical postal address?

    That's one of the benefits of pure online businesses. I don't NEED to have a storefront, inventory, employees, a merchant account, or many of the other things a brick and mortar business needs.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I couldn't find anywhere that it says you have to list a phone number, can someone point that part out to me?
    All I could see is the part about the physical address...

  12. #12
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I just looked again, and you're right. It doesn't require a phone number.

    CJ is requiring a phone number, though:

    http://cju.cj.com/news/email_compliance.jsp

    That must be where I picked that up.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  13. #13
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    Which part of the law specifies that you have to include your physical address? I'm not a big fan of legal briefings, so I don't even know where to look.

    If this is the case, my last newsletter will go out 12/31/03. I just don't feel comfortable giving my home address to 7000 list subscribers.

    Michael

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Sounds like an opportunity for a new company willing to send out newsletters according to our specifications using their address. Something like a remailing service.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  15. #15
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    I couldn't find anywhere that it says you have to list a phone number, can someone point that part out to me?
    All I could see is the part about the physical address...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    According to an article in the DM News...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Commercial e-mailers must include a physical address in messages, along with a truthful subject line and notice that the message is an ad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not sure if they consider newsletters to be commercial (if so, is there a % of content that makes it non-commercial?), or just solo ads that have to conform?

    Shawn

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom, Inc.

    http://www.affiliatemanager.net - tools and resources for affiliate managers

  16. #16
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSanf:
    With all the wierdos and Whackos in the world, you must be kidding!

    Sure, this old grandma is going to send out a Pagan newsletter and include my real address so it can fall into the hands of some fruitcake who thinks it is their duty to burn witches.

    What are you, crazy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I suppose the content of my newsletters is pretty vanilla, and doesn't generally get the weirdo/whacko crowd excited.

    Anyhow, I've voluneteered my home address and phone number on Alexa and other places, and have not had an issues with it to date.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom, Inc.

    http://www.affiliatemanager.net - tools and resources for affiliate managers

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    So, can I put your address and phone number on my news letter, puhleeese?

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  18. #18
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shawn Collins - ClubMom:
    I am not sure if they consider newsletters to be commercial (if so, is there a % of content that makes it non-commercial?), or just solo ads that have to conform?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Here's how the law defines it:

    The term `commercial electronic mail message' means any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose).

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  19. #19
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    So,if my "news" letter is actually a summary of news related articles relevant to the Pagan community and just has links to my Pagan shops, it wouldn't be "commercial", right?

    The LED Digest is what originally got me into this business. It is about 50% ads and 50% really good talk about running web sites. How about that one? Is it commercial? Of course it has all the required info.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  20. #20
    Affiliate Miester my2cents's Avatar
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    Whats all the fuss about...

    I have had my address on several of my websites for the past seven years...

    I have never had someone show up because of some problem with one of my websites...

    they call that good customer service....

    I have also had my tollfree number listed...
    in seven years I have had fewer then 10 calls...


    I you are all thet worried rent a PO Box at a mail service like... Mail Boxes Etc.

    use their address i.e.

    Joe blow
    123 main st
    suite 45 (your box number)
    someplace, USA

    as for the phone get voice mail...that way
    you choose when and whom you speak to...

    If you do get an irrete caller... they will get
    voice mail and you simply delete the call...

    Technology is your friend use it...

    JOe

    PS I do have n office... but I also use this strategy when I'm not sure about a project...

    YOur total cost should be around 20 dollars a month US.


    SHH... I'm tryin to sleep...

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    I have had someone show up at my door, actually hung out in my driveway for 15 minutes waiting for me to come home. And then 10 seconds getting thrown off my porch and off my property.

    Once that happened, I changed everything about how I do affiliate marketing and listing personal info. While people here can "expose" me or whatever, my real affiliate sites and stuff are long & deeply hidden. Funny thing, I have never had any problems with my "alternative" content sites.

    So while some people can make light of it, I think those of us who got a visit probably have a very different outlook.

    Chet

  22. #22
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I occasionally get some disturbing e-mails from people either trying to persuade me to accept their view of things or telling me what they hope my life after this incarnation will be like. Some of these opinionated people are very disturbing indeed and I sure don't want to tell them where I am.

    But, then my non-commercial sites are of the crusading type and are intended to provoke emotional reaction as well as inform so I guess I am a success in that way.

    It seems to me that this requirement can stifle free speech from communication that isn't "vanilla flavored".

    Of course, it IS only for "commercial" communication. I think we need a better definition of "commercial".

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  23. #23
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty obvious that affiliate promotion is definitely commercial.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I'm not too sure. It says "the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement". So if the "primary" purpose is something else, such as news on a given topic, it would seem you could have affiliate links or at least links leading to an affiliate site and be under the wire so far as having to include address and so forth.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  25. #25
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Right, I would agree that a content newsletter with affiliate ads wouldn't be commercial.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

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