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  1. #1
    Moderator Nabz's Avatar
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    Zappos Changes Referral Occurrences to 1
    Just received this in email.

    Today we have pushed you new program policies which will automatically go into effect program-wide by March 8, 2013. The only change to the program policies that will affect associates is an action referral occurrence change from unlimited occurrences to one occurrence. All other features of the program terms will remain the same, including our performance incentives.

    Internally, adjustments to the marketing budget have prompted this strategic decision for our publishers working with Zappos on a CPA. The affiliate team is energized to make sure this is a good 2013 for all publishers and appreciate all you do for us. We are working hard on a program that benefits all. Please reach out should you have questions about the new program terms.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador affninja's Avatar
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    Zappos terms get worse again. A frustratingly common theme.
    Your Ad Here.

  3. #3
    Moderator Nabz's Avatar
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    Does that mean affiliates will no longer be paid for customers making exchanges ?

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    the next thing to go will probably be the 30 day referral - before they cut the commission, again, they are trying to hang on, I guess, just like everybody else.

  5. #5
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Zappos and 6PM both changed it.

    They have such a high return rate that it's now equivelant to a 1 day cookie.

    Visitor clicks > buys > returns item > buys again > sorry...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

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  7. #6
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    Bad move on their part IMO.

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  9. #7
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    Does this mean we will be paid only for first sale by a customer and not for second one. Naturally providing second sale isn't a exchange.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prosperent View Post
    Bad move on their part IMO.
    Luckily, there is shoebuy. Did anyone try it? What is ECPM like compared to Zappos?

  10. #8
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    yes

  11. #9
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    Not even close. Looking over 6 months of conversion rate data, averaging 3,000 sales per day, they convert at about .25% versus 1.98% for Zappos. We've sent them about half a million clicks versus 1.8 million clicks for Zappos. We do, however do quite well with Nordstrom, but we have special terms with them. They recently passed 6pm and Zappos in our network to become our number 1 merchant. We have a 14 day cookie and 10% commission rate. I believe default is 2% and a 12 hour cookie.

  12. #10
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    Then this is a disaster. It is like they cut commission by 30% or even more.

    Someone should talk to them to change that back.

  13. #11
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    I don't think they are going to budge. Personally, and this is of course nothing more than a hunch... I would bet that in the next few months they pull an Endless.com and drop affiliates completely. Again, I haven't heard anything that supports that, but just a gut feeling I have. They seem to be slowly pulling the rug out from affiliates so to speak.

  14. #12
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosperent View Post
    I don't think they are going to budge. Personally, and this is of course nothing more than a hunch... I would bet that in the next few months they pull an Endless.com and drop affiliates completely. Again, I haven't heard anything that supports that, but just a gut feeling I have. They seem to be slowly pulling the rug out from affiliates so to speak.
    and it's not a stretch to believe - after all we are dealing with Amazon and not the Zappos of the old days.

  15. #13
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Who's a good replacement for Zappos? Nordstrom seems to high end.

  16. #14
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick View Post
    Who's a good replacement for Zappos? Nordstrom seems to high end.
    They are the only ones I have seen compare from a conversion rate standpoint. otherwise, going down the list shoebuy is OUR next highest converting. I like sharing data. here is all of our conversion data for 2012 visualized. https://www.google.com/fusiontables/...#chartnew:id=6

    As I said, for 2013, nordstrom has overtaken Zappos for our number 1 spot, but other than that, the percentages are pretty similar still.

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  18. #15
    Moderator Nabz's Avatar
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    I've had good experiences with OnlineShoes.com in past. EPC was better than Zappos for certain brands.

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  20. #16
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    Sending a very broad query through our trends system, I get back the following merchants in order of conversion for the category of "shoes":

    6pm
    Zappos.com
    Shoebuy.com
    Bass Pro SHops
    FootSmart
    Westernwear
    Finish Line
    Backcountry
    PlanetShoes.com
    OnlineShoes.com

    I can break it down by brand as well.

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  22. #17
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    So onlineshoes.com conversion rate is lower than 0.25%. Maybe there are some other factors in game because their landing page looks quite good.
    Last edited by Zoki; March 1st, 2013 at 05:18 PM.

  23. #18
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    It's actually .24% for us, but that's with only 85,000 clicks versus 1.8 million for Zappos, so it's difficult to compare the two. They may jump up now that Zappos will presumably start to fall in rank.

    For anyone interested, if you have firefox, install the "json view" plugin, then navigate to this url: http://api.prosperent.com/api/trends...28&query=shoes

    It's querying against our trends api. You can adjust the date range by changing this portion of the url: 20120901,20130228

    you can change the query here: &query=shoes

    That will search our commissions for the time period specified and give you the top merchants, brands, categories, for whatever query you provide. We are working on a visual interface for it now, but i'm sure this will help some people in the mean time. If you search on page for merchant, category, or brand you should be taken right to the results you are looking for.

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  25. #19
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    Do you have some ECPM values as well if that isn't a secret. Mine is around $50.

  26. #20
    Moderator Nabz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoki View Post
    So onlineshoes.com conversion rate is lower than 0.25%. Maybe there are some other factors in game because their landing page looks quite good.
    I pulled some old data (2010) for OnlineShoes , For 60,000 clicks the conversion was 2.83% , EPC 23.32 . I stopped promoting them because of LinkShare's checks getting lost all time as they don't have courier delivery option.

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  28. #21
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    Also, I have sent a small amount of clicks to Amazon and the EPC was around 10.

    eBay could be the best bet, I think it could be possible to get as much as 40 EPC, but I do not think Prosperent supports them, and EPN is tough to get in.
    Last edited by Zoki; March 2nd, 2013 at 07:42 AM.

  29. #22
    Member Prosperent's Avatar
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    We actually have epn in Prosperlinks as a beta. We're working with them right now to get it rolled into our Performance Ads as well so stay tuned for that one. I had the pleasure of sitting down with their whole team in Vegas a few weeks ago to discuss how they can grow their partnership with us.

    Like I said though, I think online shoes will likely creep up in conversion with us if Zappos falls. That's actually one of the best things about our system. You don't have to take the time to find the next best merchant. We automatically determine where each visitor to your site is going to convert the best and display the product from the highest paying/converting merchant. You can call it traffic optimization, or whatever, and it's a big part of how we leverage all of our data. (Zappos and 6pm just gave us a commission bump yesterday to offset this change BTW). We have such massive traffic volume that most merchants are willing to increase commission rates significantly since I can show hard performance numbers. We have over 8,000 affiliates afterall.

    Zoki, I am happy to share any data I have. We don't really have ecpm numbers since we have different channels. Our api numbers would be skewed since bots request pages and such. I do have EPC numbers at the brand, merchant, and even product level in most cases though, so if you are ever curious just let me know. We use those as part of our algorithm's that determine which product should be shown.

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  31. #23
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    I used to hold a no 1-3 position for 6pm for a high organic search term for several years. At least half of my sales were canceled. I asked them why was I getting so many canceled sales and I told them I'm sure some of these customers are exchanging but I never got paid for exchanges. Then when I lost that spot and I was only making much less sales with them I never got any canceled sales so go figure that one.

    Lately I started getting quite a few sales for Zapppos and some for 6pm again (no canceled sales either) and I actually noticed the terms yesterday but I could not find any changes so I just accepted it which was a bad move by the looks. I hate this about CJ advertisers how they keep changing terms etc as it's hard to keep up and work out what they are changing.

    It's too bad though as Zappos and 6pm products do sell well, just a shame their affiliate program is falling apart.
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  32. #24
    ABW Ambassador Paul_Ward's Avatar
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    To clarify then.

    If a customer buys a pair of size 9's through an affiliate link, decides they're too big, send them back and asks for a size 8 instead, we lose the commision?

    Presumeably if they ask for 9's and 8's and then just send the 9's back, we retain the commision on the one pair they have still got?

  33. #25
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    If a customer buys a pair of size 9's through an affiliate link, decides they're too big, send them back and asks for a size 8 instead, we lose the commision?

    Presumeably if they ask for 9's and 8's and then just send the 9's back, we retain the commision on the one pair they have still got?
    Depends on the sophistication of the merchant. I have worked with customer service to make sure we got accurate reporting on this. Found one merchant back in 2006 that would cancel the affiliate commission when there was a return even though one out of four items was returned. We put a prompt stop to that practice.

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