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  1. #1
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    I did CJ cookie testing over the weekend, and found that cookies were not being set after a clickthrough an alarming amount of the time for some CJ links.

    One CJ link for JustFlowers.com would only set a cookie 20% of the time.

    I made a shortcut to my Cookies file on my desktop. Have all cookies deleted, and then watch for new cookies to appear after a CJ link clickthrough.

    The CJ links that were converting well for me also had the highest percentage of cookie setting. The ones that were'nt converting had problems with cookies being set 50% or more of the time.

    This seems intermitant. Sunday was pretty bad. This morning not so bad.

    Hopefully will get some other perspectives on this from you guys and gals out there. For now I'm taking down all links that aren't setting cookies at least 80% of the time.

  2. #2
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    That is very wierd, cookies should either be set or not set, there shouldn't be any reason for cookies only being set intermittently in multiple tests on the same machine.

    Did you test this for Dotster links, and if so what did you find?, every test I have done for Dotster shows the cookie being set 100% of the time on my machine (IE6 Win2000Pro SP1 default security settings).

    Thanks,

    Mark......

    Mark Mitford
    Sales Director
    Dotster, Inc
    http://www.dotster.com/
    15% Commission - 90 day cookie - 0% reversals

  3. #3
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    No, I don't have Dotster links. I don't have much of that type of audience, but will give you a try if I ever set up a site catered to webmasters.

    I challenge others to do these cookie setting tests from time to time. A slow sales day would be a good time.

    I have a fast efficient machine, broadband connection, with windows XP. I clicked through to the CJ JustFlowers.com link eight times in a row on Sunday without one single cookie set.

    The CJ link next to it was setting cookies every time.

    At other times some CJ links were timing out with "Page not found".

    Some are complaining that a friend, or themselves have bought something from their own CJ merchant, and did not get credited with the sale.

    Did they check the Cookies Folder to see if the cookie set before they purchased?

    No cookie, no sale

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Kelly,

    quote:
    I challenge others to do these cookie setting tests from time to time. A slow sales day would be a good time.



    Awesome Idea Ummm, Ummm, Jeeesh, now I'll be spending all my time testing cookies though

    Coincidence Me baby!

    Affiliate Programs That Just Might Work

  5. #5
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    I'd like to try this, but I don't want to delete all my cookies. I imagine that I could clear out cookies from just a few sites, like qksrv.net and/or the advertiser, right?

    Is that all I would need to do to test? What companies are you seeing the cookies from, qksrv.net or the merchant's site?

    Ralph

    http://www.hockeydb.com

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Ralph,

    I've only tested a few but I am seeing different results from each network.

    For a CJ Merchants, so far it seems to set 3 cookies

    One that is the merchants, one that is a qksrv and one that is a CJ cookie.


    I clicked on a merchant from Linkshare and it set 5 cookies. One from Linkshare, 2 from the actual merchant that I went to and 2 from I'm not sure where. All 5 did have my ID in them though. I'll do some testing later tonight to see what happens.

    Coincidence Me baby!

    Affiliate Programs That Just Might Work

  7. #7
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    quote:
    I did CJ cookie testing over the weekend, and found that cookies were not being set after a clickthrough an alarming amount of the time for some CJ links.
    I've been doing this for over a year. It's got to be what all their "upgrades" are all about - ciphoning off more and more.

    All the more reason to start filtering through a program to monitor the REAL traffic flow.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  8. #8
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    quote:
    It's got to be what all their "upgrades" are all about - ciphoning off more and more.



    I doubt that CJ did an upgrade to screw themselves out of more 30% overrides! Rather, it's probably gotten messed up in some big way.

    Still--even I must say THIS PROBLEM NEEDS TO BE FIXED!

    No commish due to error isn't any more profitable than no commish due to anything else!

    -Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

  9. #9
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    quote:
    I doubt that CJ did an upgrade to screw themselves out of more 30% overrides!
    What? You don't think CJ would go around affiliates to STILL be able to receive their CUT? They're the ones with ebates on their main page~! Our trusted third party processor is in bed with theives and you don't think CJ is CAPABLE? I think this IS their upgrades.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Frankly, I find his quite shocking. If this can be proven to be happening on a large scale, I think it may not only be actionable but quite possibly criminal. If this is true we are being mislead in a very substantial way as to what we are being paid for our services. If true and they know about it, I believe a clear case of fraud can be established. If true and due to negligence I believe damages can be sought.

    This is very important and needs swift follow through to ascertain the facts. CJ may be entirely in the clear. If so, this needs to be known as well.

    We need to form a fact finding committee. Probably it would be best to have people who use a large number of CJ programs on the committee since they will have the largest base of advertisers that they can swiftly check.

    Ideas? Volunteers?

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  11. #11
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Interesting but when does the cookie get set exactly? I thought qsrv set the cookie and then redirected to the merchants site with AID-PID-SID. This means the merchant has nothing to do with the setting of the cookie. I believe this to be true.

  12. #12
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    Ideas... A dedicated machine to test on and an automated script to test merchant links and verify the cookie is or is not being set and track results.

    The automated script part shouldn't be hard to develop at all.

    Actually, I thought Haiko was working on this but it may have got side stepped or dropped. Affiliatetrust.org (or whatever it is) has been talked about for a very long time and it was envisioned to do this type of testing (at least thats my opinion). Perhaps Haiko will fill us in with where the project stands.

    I agree this type of testing is very important and the results from it would not only raise or lower my participation with a network, it would also influence my participation with merchants who have issues with cookie setting as well (if it came down to a merchant cookie issue rather than a network issue).

    With this type of information public, it seems to me a possibility exists to "petition the networks" for lost sales on a percentage based on cookie set failures.

    Ahaaa - that's likely where a breakdown in network support for this feature stops cold turkey. My guess is that affiliatetrust.org seeked "byoff" and participation from the networks rather than providing data that made the networks look bad (not in Haikos best business interests).

    This needs to be done as an independent project without involving the networks or seeking any buyoff for them. They should not be granted inside information on the testing to be performed and the testing done needs to be in a random fashion with links from different sites (standard supplied links and direct product links) for it to be it's most effective.

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    quote:
    What? You don't think CJ would go around affiliates to STILL be able to receive their CUT? They're the ones with ebates on their main page~! ~Bryan


    But in eBates' case, a cookie is still set and CJ gets their cut. The fact that the cookie credits ebates instead of who it ought to is still different from there not being *any* cookie. But Kelly626 is saying that NO cookie is set at all--not that it's crediting the wrong person, which would be another matter.

    With NO cookie set at all, a transaction isn't registered to ANYONE--hence, NO CUT for CJ!

    Therefore, it would be undesireable for CJ to have no cookie set at all--SOMEBODY has to register a transaction for that 30% to get charged!

    So I think that it would definitely be in CJ's best interest to FIX THIS as soon as possible, and that they didn't intend to set NO COOKIE AT ALL, ANYWHERE (and therefore have no transaction to charge anyone for recorded at all, anywhere)!

    -Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

  14. #14
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    No matter what the problem is, or isn't, there still remains the fact that too many discrepencies come into being on a daily basis - enough to raise all kinds of fears and doubts. Parania sets in and, before ya know it . . . we're on these boards wondering exactly what we should be wondering . . . WHERE is ANYONE from CJ to address any and all concerns, no matter how near or far-fetched they may be? Who's buttering the bread anyway? Is it CJ or us? Are WE driving the wheels of cashflow to the merchants and networks or is it the merchants and networks driving it to us? Get my drift?

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  15. #15
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    Great idea to test for cookies dropping!
    It really is so simple, but It never even crossed my mind .


    I just tested Homevisons with all cookies deleted and new cookies did NOT set on my machine after clicking on 3 different product links . That's all the testing I need .

    Coincidentally , Not one single sale from Homevisions today. On other days, the sales are rolling in from them, with the same or LESS traffic to the merchant. Hmmmm...




    I don't know WHY CJ can't use dual tracking methods that don't require cookies .

    It's bad enough we lose about 20% of our commissions to non-cookie accepting users, but add on the 20-25% lost to parasites , AND this unreliable, ON/OFF tracking at CJ , and we really do get the shaft .

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    A dedicated machine to test on and an automated script to test merchant links and verify the cookie is or is not being set and track results.


    I wish I could do this kind of thing but it is beyond my kin.

    Are their any heros here who can do it? Now would be a good time to let your heroic self be known and step up to the plate. Please....

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  17. #17
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    quote:
    I just tested Homevisons with all cookies deleted and new cookies did NOT set on my machine after clicking on 3 different product links . That's all the testing I need .
    EXACTLY~! I've been doing this on a daily basis for years - every time I check my commissions I delete cookies so anything new will load at CJ. But before I delete I check the LIST in Cookiedom - lo'n'behold the lack of cookies that SHOULD be there through my TESTING are missing~! I've been holding back on saying this stuff for a VERY long time . . . after all . . . what will CJ now do now that they really know how I view them and most merchants?
    Well, when it comes right down to it, none of any of this is paying me enuf so who cares anywho~!

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The shopping cart programs require cookies be active to get through the checkout process. The CJ HTML tag parses the cookie for affiliate ID# and shady merchants, who know it's easy to verify that the tags are there, can kill the cookie to save commission bucks. Dell kills all Linkshare Home systems cookies if a shopper inadvertently crosses over the invisible line to the Small Biz systems on their site. Vise versa the BF cookies when they enter a Home Systems section. Saves them big bucks even with 1-2 day cookie.

    No cookie =no trackable commission even though the sale goes through normally. The BHO's set their cookie or overwrite others via a point of sale popup. A cookie cutting script during the checkout process screens would save the merchants from even paying the BHO wanks. Most legit merchants would never stoop to these routines and their AM's would catch the drop off in sales. Small struggling merchants who act as their own AM might adopt this practice.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  19. #19
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    Brian--

    >>WHERE is ANYONE from CJ to address any and all concerns, no matter how near or far-fetched they may be?

    I was a bit disappointed that they didn't have someone fill in for Todd. A guy showed up "coincidentally" but then he said that even though he works there, he didn't have authority to post in CJ's name...

    I can see what you're saying--all concerns should be addressed--but I also think they're human and Todd can only handle so many complaints without spitting tacks! There needs to be more than one person doing the work at the same time. Maybe a couple of assistants for Todd so they could divide up the work instead of having it all land on one person.

    >>Are WE driving the wheels of cashflow to the merchants and networks or is it the merchants and networks driving it to us?

    I think it works both ways. Without us, merchants lose a big driver of sales. But without merchants willing to run affiliate programs, we have no one to drive sales to. And networks need both sides, or nothing goes through their pipelines.

    -Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

  20. #20
    Member hooligan's Avatar
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    I just tried the same experiment with several of my cj merchants.

    No cookies were set.

    Interesting.

    I guess this would explain how my traffic is up and sales are down. So who is getting credit for my sales? Is there a house account at cj?

  21. #21
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    quote:
    Ideas... A dedicated machine to test on and an automated script to test merchant links and verify the cookie is or is not being set and track results.

    The automated script part shouldn't be hard to develop at all.

    Actually, I thought Haiko was working on this but it may have got side stepped or dropped. Affiliatetrust.org (or whatever it is) has been talked about for a very long time and it was envisioned to do this type of testing (at least thats my opinion). Perhaps Haiko will fill us in with where the project stands.


    Not even close to being dropped!

    Should be live in a few with real-time reporting on cookie setting and dropping as well as complete real-time reporting on merchant thank you page tracking!

    Technology is not cheap because everyone else is!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I'd like to add that ...

    quote:
    A dedicated machine to test on and an automated script to test merchant links and verify the cookie is or is not being set and track results.


    A dedicated machine means NOTHING towards true testing, it requires seperate nodes across the country, if not the world, for real results.

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I'm sorry for "machine gun answering" here ...

    The cookie dropping can also be equated to the new philosophy of certain parasites and networks who allow it. See the Shawn Collins Thread on the iamaswiss boards. I specifically identified that a certain parasite programmer was looking to to do cookie reading and after an hour they would auto redirect and overwrite your cookies. This is what may be happening!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    For a CJ Merchants, so far it seems to set 3 cookies

    One that is the merchants, one that is a qksrv and one that is a CJ cookie.


    Got to do more testing.

    What is you only see two set, one that is a qksrv and one that is a CJ cookie but the merchant one is missing???

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Hooligan and others,

    quote:
    I just tried the same experiment with several of my cj merchants.

    No cookies were set.

    Interesting.


    Are the merchants, also, affiliated with parasites?(eg on ebates merchant list)

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


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