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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Just wondering when this will be implemented into CJ so we can see if the merchant has the keep cookie option set to keep=yes or keep=no. I'd like to know which merchants only pay out on the first sale. One merchant I am with has the cookie option set to keep=no but states on they CJ signup page, "Simply send people to ***** and earn a **% referral bonus for every purchase they make." If only that were true.

  2. #2
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    There will be a new release at the end of March - early April that will have this data for your viewing pleasure.

    It is my understanding that advertisers will be able to pay for the first sale that occurs within the referral period, all sales that occur within the referral period or some number of sales within the referral period (ex. first 5 sales within 30 days).

    Stay tuned!

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    I was wondering what was up with a merchant I was looking at. It must be something to do with what Todd just mentioned. I forget which merchant it was but the way I read their affiliate program it was something like;

    8% of initial sale within a 60 day cookie period. Then it stated if a visitor comes back and makes a purchase in the 24 hour period after the initial purchase I would still be credited for up to 24 hours.

    So it sounds like that particular merchant would have either a 2 sale limit threshhold or a 60 day cookie with a keep=yes of 24 hours.

    It will be interesting to see how it all pans out with the merchants and how they each set it up.

    Coincidence Me baby!

    Affiliate Programs That Just Might Work

  4. #4
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Good!

    Anything less is misrepresentation by a substantial number of merchants. Of course, not having this information, makes this statement speculation since we have no way of knowing as things stand right now. That's the problem. We have no way of knowing who is and who is not using this option to trick us into believing untruths.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  5. #5
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    As a clarification for anyone interested, at Dotster you earn commission on every sale to someone you refer within 90 days of them clicking on your link.

    From what I've seen most programs are setup this way and I personally would be wary of promoting any program that only paid out on the first X sales by any visitor.

    Regards,

    Mark Mitford
    Sales Director
    Dotster, Inc
    http://www.dotster.com/
    15% Commission - 90 day cookie - 0% reversals

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    I agree with Mark Mitford,

    I would be extremely wary of promoting any program that only paid on the first X sale by any visitor. Any other format and your actually hurting yourself and aiding the vendor without compensation.

    Ray Thomas
    DesignerWiz.com CEO
    Development Resource & Javascript Public Archive Center
    http://DesignerWiz.com

  7. #7
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    I Have a question about the cookie option set to keep= no

    Hypothetically, If a merchant has the keep cookie option set to NO, and a shopper arrives at the merchants site , and "Checks out" for a mail order catalog request, but then continues browsing the site and makes a purchase , checking out a second time, is that publisher out of commission ?

    In other words, does a simple thing like a completed catalog request cancel out the cookie ?

    If so, I don't think that any advertisers should be allowed to offer mail order catalogs (generating FREE leads and bybassing having to pay commssions on affiliate sales)

    UNLESS One or more of the following situations apply :


    A. The shopping cart method is NOT used to request mail order materials and generate leads when the keep cookie = NO option is selected .

    B. The merchant is required to pay out a minimum , per transaction/lead fee to publishers, every time a shopping cart with keep cookie = NO transaction is completed without a commissionable sale taking place .

    "OR"

    C. The keep cookie = YES option must be left in place .



    This question comes to mind , because I have noticed many merchants popping up windows pushing their spring/ summer mail order catalogs upon landing on their main page.

    I for one, would probably request one if prompted to do so , and I had an interest in their products .

    What do you think about this ? I really don't think it's anything unreasonable , and only fair business .

    Lisa

  8. #8
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    When I send my customer to a merchant to buy a product, I don't accept them poping up a catalog banner..

    That person is My customer for the duration of the stated cookie in the merchant's contract. That's what I agreed to when I signed
    up with them.

    There is not much of a difference between handing out a catalog or turning a cookie off after the first sale.

    Either way they are stealing your customer and breaking their agreement.

    Once your customer gets the catalog, do we still get credit for any sales made? Well maybe, if they order it through their computer.

    On top of that, the popup and and the time spent filling out the application, will most likely make the customer forget why they went there in the first place..

    The reason they went to the merchant, is because I pre-sold them on a product.

    I worked hard to get them to my site and then to entice them to buy. Many times I pay for our customers..

    When the merchant says 45 day cookie, they are saying it's our customer for the next 45 days or till some other affilliate over-writes our cookie. That's what I've agreed to.

    As far as I'm concerned popup catalog forms, Cookies = off, links leading to other merchants, are just different ways of stealing my customers and my commissions..

    If you're willing to accept the above, then don't complain about parasites..

    As far as I'm concerned.. If a merchant says 45 days, and then deletes a cookie after x sales, they've broken the contract without my knowledge.

    I my books that's deliberate fraud..

    But then, I'm not a lawyer.. Too bad .. could probably make a pile of dough taking them to court.

    Cow Patch...

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    quote:
    As far as I'm concerned.. If a merchant says 45 days, and then deletes a cookie after x sales, they've broken the contract without my knowledge.


    The worst thing is that CJ recommends the keep=no option to merchants. I even think the default option is keep=no!!!

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Cow Patch

    quote:
    If you're willing to accept the above, then don't complain about parasites..


    Cow Patch,

    I'm not willing to accept anything , but to get real here, you can NOT reasonably expect a merchant to refrain from advertising a mail order catalog if they choose to do so through their website .

    HOWEVER, we can reasonably demand that shopping cart transactions like a catalog request SHALL NOT cancel out the cookie , when it applies to merchants with the keep=NO option selected .


    Are you getting me so far ?

    AND,
    In cases where it would cancel out the cookie , the keep = yes option should be MANDATORY , or the merchant should NOT be allowed to offer a free catalog through the same shopping cart , and generate free leads and non-commissionable sales throughout the network .


    Are you still with me ?

    AND finally, if they insist on the keep=NO option in the same shopping cart that catalog requests go through , then we should be PAID a specified amount for the lead .

    You can be 100% sure that these advertisers will get sick and tired of paying out thousands of dollars monthly on the catalog leads that are a quick buck for high traffic sites , and move the catalog request out of the shopping cart system instead, to a seperate form that will eventually solve that problem.

    Lisa

  11. #11
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    Sorry Lisa,

    My previous message was not directed at you..

    It was directed at Merchants who think they can do anything and get away with it.

    Catalogs.. fine ... but on a pop-up when they enter the site? That's overkill..

    I send my customers over to buy something and earn a commission ... not to get distracted and order a catalog from which I make nothing.

    It's my customer... I paid dearly in one way or another to get them, sell them, and I expect the merchant to do their best to make the sale not distract them.

    But then ... that's only my humble opinion

    Again ... Sorry if I offended you.. that was not my intention .. we're all in the same boat.

    It's just frustrating when I see this happenning to us and there's not much I can do about it.

    Cow Patch...

  12. #12
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    quote:
    The worst thing is that CJ recommends the keep=no option to merchants. I even think the default option is keep=no!!!


    Yeah? ... Sorta sad, isn't it

    Cow Patch...

  13. #13
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    quote:
    AND finally, if they insist on the keep=NO option


    Lisa

    In my humble opinion..

    If a merchant states a cookie duration in their Contract ... The "Keep=no" should not even be an option.

    But again ... What can we do about it?

    Cow Patch...

  14. #14
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    The worst thing is that CJ recommends the keep=no option to merchants. I even think the default option is keep=no!!!


    This is not true.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  15. #15
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    quote:
    quote:
    ------------------------------------------------
    The worst thing is that CJ recommends the keep=no option to merchants. I even think the default option is keep=no!!!

    This is not true.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction
    What is true then? After reading this thread and your only reply is so skimpy, please fill in the rest Todd.
    How did this person come to believe IT to be true? I'm sure the statements made throughout the thread hold more merit than you've provided answers to.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    quote:
    The worst thing is that CJ recommends the keep=no option to merchants. I even think the default option is keep=no!!!


    This is not true.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction


    Todd I will not be branded a liar.

    Quote from AMconsulting, "What makes me (AS A MERCHANT) MAD - is that CJ's instructions on setting up our cart for CJ tracking - has "keep=no" as the default. My techs set up the tracking. I did not know this was an issue or would cut my affiliates out of commiss until I read some posts here and talked to Haiko about it." See full post below.

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...121#7766064121

    [This message was edited by JJJay on March 01, 2003 at 04:06 PM.]

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    I guess it's my turn once again to step in

    CJ DOES NOT RECOMMEND TO MERCHANT'S KEEP=NO OR KEEP=YES

    When a merchant is integrating CJ tracking, CJ documentation offers both options to the merchant and explains what each one does. CJ does not recommend either. If a merchant leaves out the KEEP value from the tracking code, CJ defaults it to KEEP=NO on the processing end.

    Akiva Bergstrom
    Business Development
    akiva@essentialapparel.com
    800-556-2937 ext 751
    www.essentialapparel.com
    6% PER SALE ~ RECURRING COMMISSIONS FOR 1 YEAR ~ ABW MEMBERS CONVERT AT LESS THAN 1/30 ~ DEDICATED AM WHO'LL DO ALMOST ANYTHING ~ TONS OF CASH WAITING TO BE TAKEN! ~ PARASITE FREE ~ PRIVATE FORUM AT ABW

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Message edited by ME because another was edited to add the info I was looking for while I was posting.


    Coincidence Me baby!

    Affiliate Programs That Just Might Work

  19. #19
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    If a merchant leaves out the KEEP value from the tracking code, CJ defaults it to KEEP=NO on the processing end.



    Well, that's a pretty fancy way of scr*wing us over, isn't it?

    Well, Todd said we will have the information, soon. It's darned about time.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  20. #20
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    Why is the default keep=no? Surely CJ is also losing their percentage of the repeat commissions with this. Or is there something we don't know going on here?

    Battling through theifware, keep=no, out of stock items, deactivated merchants and the jungle of great merchants and bad apples to try to make a cent.

  21. #21
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    If a merchant leaves out the KEEP value from the tracking code, CJ defaults it to KEEP=NO on the processing end.

    If an advertiser leaves out the keep= value we default to =no for fraud reasons. We do not recommend that advertisers use keep=no, but most see it as a customer aquisition strategy. You send them a visitor and they give you X days for them to convert into a customer. If you refer that customer again, you have another X days for a sale or lead to occur. If the customer comes back directly to their site and buys again, they see it as a retuning customer (one they already acquired and paid you for) and do not want to pay a second commission.

    This is their strategy - not mine. I am just explaining things.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  22. #22
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    quote:
    If you refer that customer again, you have another X days for a sale or lead to occur. If the customer comes back directly to their site and buys again, they see it as a retuning customer (one they already acquired and paid you for) and do not want to pay a second commission.
    Todd, did I see it posted somewhere that an upgrade will be forthcoming that SHOWS affiliates WHO is who by way of who keeps=yes and who keeps=no ????

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  23. #23
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I don't have much of an issue with the keep=no option. I don't believe I am being cheated if I send a visitor that makes a purchase and then returns directly to that merchants site a short time later for another purchase. I do however want to know which choice my merchants make so that I can go with the keep cookie merchants because it's good business sense on my part. Either way I won't cry but like I said I would do the sensible thing for my business.

  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Hump! I thought the whole idea of the cookie is that it is MY customer for a promised amount of days!!

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  25. #25
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    The way I see it, that customer might have become a customer for life with a competitor, had an affiliate not directed them to me.

    So, you get someone to my site that buys a truck cover or tarp, you're getting a commission on that customer for every additional purchase, until they purchase through a different affiliate. If they come back directly to me to purchase from that point on, the affiliate gets a commission.

    My prices already account for a commission to an affiliate, it's not like it's going to kill me to share.

    It all comes down to how you view traffic, I guess, and it's worth.

    -Tom Rice
    www.tarice.com

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

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