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February 28th, 2014, 02:39 PM #1
However the "hero" of The Patriot once fought for the English against the French, so we'll have to set aside our cultural differences for a short period and go and rescue the Ukrainians. It would appear our Governments signed a Treaty to that very effect. Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online
The agreement sees signatories promise to protect Ukraine's borders
It was signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma in 1994
Ukrainian parliament has now reached out directly to all the countries who signed the treaty
Putin currently has 150,000 troops on Ukraine's borders and it is reported some have crossed into the country
President Obama says he is 'deeply concerned' by the news
The US and Britain have both made 'crisis calls' to President Putin to warn him to respect territorial boundaries
There was a thread about dodgy survival equipment not long ago. Maybe it's time to promote that before the End is truly Nigh.
Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; February 28th, 2014 at 07:30 PM.
February 28th, 2014, 03:32 PM #2
Having a number of side discussions with others in the industry as Affiliate Marketing is truly global in scope. Being a student of history particularly military history I thought we might want to offer our comments in what is going on in the Ukraine.
February 28th, 2014, 03:57 PM #3
Putin should be considered armed and very dangerous...Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...
February 28th, 2014, 05:45 PM #4
Every time the Soviet Union threatened to invade a country during the Cold War preceded by saber rattling they did. Looked up all the countries invaded or taken over by them some during WW2 and the rest since.
February 28th, 2014, 06:01 PM #5
- Join Date
- October 16th, 2007
- Neenah, WI
This event is one of the reasons I appreciate my 2nd amendment rights.
We definitely get some folks from the Ukraine on this forum. I hope they're still able to keep doing what they do.
February 28th, 2014, 06:02 PM #6
I must have had my mind on other things at the time because I only vaguely recall the Budapest Memorandum and did not realise the United States and the United Kingdom (not NATO) had extended military guarantees to Ukraine, in return for Ukraine giving up the nuclear weapons that were left on their soil after the demise of the Soviet Union.
Just as Russia is following a formula, so the UK has always stood by guarantees. In 1938 we didn't have such a guarantee with Czechoslovakia but we did with Poland and went to war in 1939 when Poland's territorial integrity was broken (Russia was allied with Nazi Germany then but the treaty only specified against German aggression and not Russian aggression). In 1914 we had the Triple Entente and joined Russia and France in war against Germany and Austria Hungary.
February 28th, 2014, 06:08 PM #7
Latest news at Putin in crisis talks with Western leaders who tell him 'don't interfere in Ukraine' - as speculation mounts Russian soldiers who seized Crimean airports may be private security contractors | Mail Online says the troops are private security contractors to the Russian military called Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana, which is contracted to the Russian Interior Ministry.
The British Foreign Secretary is flying this weekend to Kiev for talks.
February 28th, 2014, 07:20 PM #8
So I am confused on how the seizure of the airport isn't an act of war against Ukraine?
Crimea is now an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine  and is governed by the Constitution of Crimea in accordance with the laws of Ukraine.
February 28th, 2014, 07:21 PM #9
February 28th, 2014, 08:32 PM #10
Definitely hope things settle down and have a peaceful resolution for the people in the Ukraine. Very sad watching what has gone on there
Remember watching but had forgotten about that Budapest Memorandum (used to watch a lot of C-span lol )
*For John Jupp in case you don't know, C-span is just a channel on TV that shows political and world events. Stopped watching quite a while ago so not sure if it's still on but used to show hmmm can't remember what it's called but was where your Prime Minister bravely lol went before Parliament and they discussed things. (sorry, but couldn't help but giggle at how they acted some of the time, members weren't always the most respectful )
Anyway, thoughts are with the people in the Ukraine and hope peace returns to them soon.
March 1st, 2014, 02:57 AM #11
Crimea has it's own Parliament and is an autonomous region. The Russians did the same in Georgia. However it's a bit like if Scotland was invaded and occupied by Russia. Scotland has it's own Government and is an autonomous region.
Russia amending their law to occupy any region where there are Russians living, means that I suppose the expensive part of London must be Little Moscow now, in which case I'll be looking for the Red Army arriving.
March 1st, 2014, 04:54 AM #12
Wanted: Rental near Loch Rannoch or Glen Lyon for 2 weeks. Alternatively let me know if you have a commercial/farm building there.
March 1st, 2014, 07:58 AM #13
Ukraine is now mobilising and Russian forces have attacked the main Ukrainian Naval base. All Ukrainian ships ordered to sea. Air defence units in eastern Crimea also under attack.
Rent a mob crowds paid until 2pm local time, stormed buildings in two eastern Ukraine cities in a pro-Russian display. They left at 2pm.
Russia has refused to speak to the Ukrainian Government. The British Foreign Secretary has again phoned the Russians.
March 1st, 2014, 08:00 AM #14
Putin has just asked the Russian Parliament's Upper House for permission to use Russian troops in Ukraine.
March 1st, 2014, 06:29 PM #15
But seriously, from UN News Centre: As Security Council holds urgent talks, Ban urges dialogue to resolve Ukraine crisis1 March 2014 – Top United Nations officials on Saturday called for direct dialogue between all concerned amid the growing tensions in the Crimea region of Ukraine, as the Security Council held urgent talks for the second day in a row on the crisis.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who is “gravely concerned” about the deterioration of the situation, spoke by telephone with Russian President Vladimir Putin today.
“It is crucial to restore calm and proceed to an immediate de-escalation of the situation. Cool heads must prevail and dialogue must be the only tool in ending this crisis,” Mr. Ban said afterwards, adding that he appealed to Mr. Putin to urgently engage in direct dialogue with the authorities in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev.
In a statement issued earlier in the day by his spokesperson, the Secretary-General reiterated his call for the full respect for and preservation of Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.
During the Security Council's discussions, members expressed grave concern about the rapidly deteriorating situation in Ukraine, Ambassador Sylvie Lucas of Luxembourg, which holds the Council presidency for March, told reporters after closed-door talks.
Council members also “stressed the need for an urgent de-escalation of the situation, and reiterated their call on all parties to exercise maximum restraint and to refrain from action and rhetoric which might exacerbate the situation,” she added.
March 1st, 2014, 11:19 PM #16
No because Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security Counsel.
March 2nd, 2014, 01:25 AM #17
March 2nd, 2014, 06:37 AM #18
Emergency kits listed, ready to relocate within 30 minutes. My lady Wife doesn't want to watch the news but will accede if I tell her to get in the Land Rover with the family and off we'll go.
NATO extends support to Ukraine.
NATO Secretary General - Doorstep statement to the media - 2 March 2014 - YouTube
March 2nd, 2014, 09:06 AM #19
So you are expecting invasion or worse global thermonuclear war in the UK? And you are going to drive to the polar ice pack for safety?
March 2nd, 2014, 09:58 AM #20
There are few politicians I listen to (or former politicians) but one I do listen to is Lord Ashdown. He was clearly rattled.
Ukraine has mobilised 1 million reservists and they are being inducted right now.
There is a very short window to resolve this peacefully, by allowing a referendum in Crimea under international observation, remove the language laws in Ukraine and get the Kiev admistration properly recognised.
However Putin told Obama he reserves the right to enter Ukraine proper and not just Crimea. Most ethnic Russians in Ukraine do not want to be part of Russia. Crimea which has a majority ethnic Russian population held a referendum a few years ago and 56% of Crimeans stated they wanted an autonomous Republic in Ukraine and not in Russia.
Obama is weak. NATO has sided with Ukraine. Poland has promised military support. Latvia has a 40% ethnic Russian presence in Riga and a 30% ethnic population in the rest of the country. The Russians have as part of Russia, Kaliningrad and surrounds (formerly part of Prussia) where they have a large military presence and also tactical nukes.
The eastern European states are more vocal than the western for the moment. The Czech Government has recalled their ambassador to Moscow calling the situation the Crimea Spring (after the Prague Spring when then Soviet troops invaded). The Poles have a deep hatred of the Russians and have never forgotten or forgiven them for their past atrocities. Most ethnic Russians in Ukraine want to be Ukrainian and at the moment only the Hungarians are opposed to action because of the language laws.
Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons for military guarantees from the US and the UK. Many Ukrainians are saying this would not have happened if they'd kept their nukes.
If Russia does not back down, then how can there not be repercussions militarily? The US and the UK have both signed a Memorandum, a Treaty, declaring military guarantee.
Last edited by John Jupp; March 2nd, 2014 at 10:05 AM.
March 2nd, 2014, 10:13 AM #21
Image from a large pro war rally in Moscow earlier today.
March 2nd, 2014, 10:27 AM #22
Time in GMT
According to the report, the attack was started by a group of plain-clothed men wearing bullet-proof vests and helmets, who were later joined by members of the Russian military.
16:06: BBC Monitoring
reports: The Ukrainian State Border Service's regional HQ in Simferopol has been stormed and captured by "unidentified armed men", the service says in a statement circulated by UNIAN news agency. The headquarters of the Simferopol border detachment has also been taken.
March 2nd, 2014, 03:53 PM #23
Per Wash Post Sec/St Kerry in the Ukraine on Tuesday.
March 2nd, 2014, 04:20 PM #24
All the diplomatic big guns are hard at work, with a small concession gleaned by Angela Merkel when Medvedev agreed to allow Russia to join an OECD working party on Ukraine. However he re-iterated that Russia will not accept the current provisional Government of Ukraine.
I can understand the Russian position more but they didn't consult, they broke international law, they are totally intransigent, they are prone to kick first and talk later and given the guarantees to Ukraine, it makes diplomacy very difficult.
I hope and pray that diplomacy will prevail, but as I said, there's a limited window to do so. At least there is now a small glimmer of progress.
If the shit does hit the fan and any conflict becomes international (which is a very real possibility), I've already scouted where to place my family underground.
The Russian mentality is very passionate and they have a tendency to strike out before thinking clearly. It's what makes diplomacy so difficult, especially when Putin hates being sidelined on the world's stage.
March 2nd, 2014, 04:24 PM #25
Prince Edward (the artistic one), patron of the British Paralympic Association, of the British Royal Family will not attend the Paralympic Games on advice from the Government, Buckingham Palace has announced.
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