Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Info about conversions and general thievery from affiliate networks
    I all, new guy here, I did read rules and introduced myself etc, what I really joined for was to ask people if they realised something about certain netwoks.

    I'll explain. I have an advertiser which is getting a little trickle of my traffic, I am doing other work so I'll just let that advertiser get say 100 clicks every six months from a few sites, maybe they are lawyers and I wrote a few generic articles about lawyers, and have added banners and affiliate links and then just forgot about the site.

    maybe once every so often I will add something, you know, playing cat and mouse with the google bot so they know the site is getting updated and won't drop me off the index.

    Anyway the site SETTLES quite SOLIDLY to about 100 clicks every six months from google and yahoo traffic and for those cliks I get a steady $10

    So, the site is getting me $20 a year for about 200 clicks. not a lot of money but hey life is tough. I often get confused with cr, click per 100 and similar terminologies hence why I am being long winded, please forgive me.

    So, I get some free time and I decide to push that advertiser a little bit, I am thinking ok I'll double its traffic, lets see if it doubles the money.

    And it does. I am now sending 1000 clicks a week of the same flavour traffic as I have always sent and teh conversions are stable as they always were at $100 for the 1000 clicks.

    But wait. The c@nts at the other end of the network suddenly wake up, they see what's happening and somehow they will adjust something so that the conversions are now HALVED. I now get $50 for my 1000 clicks.

    Ok I'll close the tap, put it all back as it was, 100 clicks per six months. Am I still getting $10 for those 100 clicks? Nope the conversion is now halved.

    I descovered that I can do this with just about every advertiser, on this particular affiliate network.

    Obviously when they do this, I do A/B testing with another merchant (from another network) and if I get more money with the fresh merchant, I'll expire the one I had been with soo happy, sooo stable for sooo long and then it just ... broke. I mean maybe not so happy but I meant that I left it season so as to get it stable, so as to know what works what doesn' before scaling it up!

    Any comments? Am I being paranoic? I am looking at stats now and that's what they show.
    Further.. I could go further but I don't want to cram too many issues in the one first post

  2. #2
    Affiliate Network Rep JCrooks - AffiliateWindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7th, 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,988
    There are a lot of variables in your discussion, so we may have to ask more questions. But just to be clear, it seems like you are talking about one network, not all networks in general, cause we don't all operate like that!
    Jeannine Crooks - Always happy to share what I know! - Voted Best Network Rep 2013 & 2014
    Email | LinkedIn | Twitter | Affiliate Window
    US Programs | Canada Programs | UK Programs | Ireland Programs | Mainland Europe Programs

  3. #3
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by JCrooks - AffiliateWindow View Post
    There are a lot of variables in your discussion, so we may have to ask more questions. But just to be clear, it seems like you are talking about one network, not all networks in general, cause we don't all operate like that!
    uhm the other ones don't even convert. Actually how about they wait till you send them 100 clicks, get a taste of the traffic yumm nice then they'll let you have a conversion and then that is it..
    1450 clicks recently, not one conversion. The thing is that as soon as I divert (a bit of) that same traffic onto another advertiser, conversions start to tricle in, so that tells me there was something wrong at the first place.

    Note that maybe I am not your average affiliate marketer, I never contact affiliate managers, I am a non entity for them, simply send traffic and behave, I rarely have problems and when I do I move on, so maybe they don't see me as "part of the team" and they'd rather lose me than have the traffic?
    It is funny as the same people end up on my site via adsense anyway.

    I just don't get it and that's why I am asking, I seldom go to forums and voice this stuff, it requires effort writing it

    Edit: I thought about videoing it, I could expose so much about certain networks but to what end? I don't want to fight the bad ones, it takes the same effort creating good content for my sites yet there seem to be so much rot out there.

    What are the variables you mean anyway. Traffic source? the same one. same kind of people searching the search engines for answers to their problems.
    Last edited by beachbum; May 8th, 2014 at 03:51 PM.

  4. #4
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 22nd, 2007
    Location
    West Covina, CA
    Posts
    8,443
    Why are you so sure that the problem, if there even is one, is with the network and not with the merchant? There are many reasons why conversion rates decrease, and a good share of the time it is because of something on the merchant site. For example, there was a period of about two years that I was getting an average of one sale per day for a certain product through one merchant. The sales then dropped off to one or two a month. I found that the merchant had reduced their selection of design choices of the product from around 70 to under 10, and raised their price.

    "1450 clicks" and Zero conversions to me sounds like a problem with the merchant.

    Also, have you checked your links? If a link stops landing on the product page and instead goes to the home page, as does happen, you see the clicks but seldom see a conversion.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, thereís no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  5. Thanks From:

  6. #5
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,492
    I think the traffic numbers you speak of here are too small of a sample to draw conclusions with, BUT... I do believe, in my heart and in my mind, that a certain large affiliate network is skimming like this. I've done test purchases that didn't get credited, and on one occasion, I went straight to the merchant's place of business to speak with the affiliate manager, who confirmed that the sale in question did in fact get "credited to an affiliate". He was eager to dig in and try to get to the bottom of it, so he went into his office and called the network. After he talked to them, he seemed rather consternated (or maybe confused) and he brushed me off - asked me to leave because he "has to get to a meeting" - and he wouldn't answer my follow-up emails.
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
    DESIGNER DOG CHECKS ~ We double-dog dare ya to write one!

  7. Thanks From:

  8. #6
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 24th, 2005
    Posts
    6,918
    Are you talking CPA networks, or... ?
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  9. Thanks From:

  10. #7
    Affiliate Network Rep JCrooks - AffiliateWindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7th, 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,988
    Are you selling digital downloads? Is this lead gen? Or physical products?
    Jeannine Crooks - Always happy to share what I know! - Voted Best Network Rep 2013 & 2014
    Email | LinkedIn | Twitter | Affiliate Window
    US Programs | Canada Programs | UK Programs | Ireland Programs | Mainland Europe Programs

  11. #8
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by AffiliateHound View Post
    Why are you so sure that the problem, if there even is one, is with the network and not with the merchant?
    because I can recreate the problem at will with just about any merchant.
    Also because often I can choose to send traffic to the merchant via one network or the other and the $ for click changes wildly.

    With this particular network it is like if they have a "dolby". They'll dumb down anything I do but they don't do it immediately, it is very sly. I can wack the traffic open and the landing page will respond immediately with a steady amount of conversions and then after a while it gets the dolby treatment.

    Another reason why I am so sure? Because eventually I joined one merchant directly via their own affiliate system and my conversion tripled and became rock solid, lets say about 20 each and every day, less on saturdays/sundays etc it gets so clear now that I can even predict at what time of the day those people will search the net looking to perform certain actions.

    I wish I could join more merchants directly but for some reason some of them are difficult to join, for reasons which I am not too sure as I am not too sure how they think and I often kind of clash at the beginning, I'll go into this with another thread I guess it'll help me to grow even if I already know what to do and that is squash the merchant on the SE and then he'll beg me haha easier said than done though.. dream on beachbum

    Quote Originally Posted by AffiliateHound View Post
    "1450 clicks" and Zero conversions to me sounds like a problem with the merchant.
    Also, have you checked your links? If a link stops landing on the product page and instead goes to the home page, as does happen, you see the clicks but seldom see a conversion.
    oops on this particular one merchant I did not check the links, that's very stupid of me. I just saw a bunch of not performing merchants and I wiped the slate clean with the bunch of them. oh well.

  12. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by JCrooks - AffiliateWindow View Post
    Are you selling digital downloads? Is this lead gen? Or physical products?
    I do mainly leads, the big lot of the work is with one major player, using their in house affiliate script. But they can also be weird themselves so I'd love to diversify, I don't like to become too big on things, I'd rather have many little trickes than one big one and unfortunately this is the case now and that's why I am diluting energies wondering about problems I shouldn't worry about.
    Maybe it's me a lil stressed out.

  13. #10
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by davidh View Post
    After he talked to them, he seemed rather consternated (or maybe confused) and he brushed me off - asked me to leave because he "has to get to a meeting" - and he wouldn't answer my follow-up emails.
    there you go... but I can prove they do it in so many ways.. and it is stupid how they flap about looking for affiliates, tightening their security measures when "drafting" new people in as they are terrified of cheaters and then they skim off the earning of people like this.

    I don't even care about the money, just lower my commision if you have to, but let me have the feel of what happens at the landing page, if you kill a conversion here and one there, it is like blinding me and I can't work any more. I mean it kills my metholodocy if that's even a word

  14. #11
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    Are you talking CPA networks, or... ?
    pay per lead, I won't mention any name as I think it is useless negativity, just wondering if other affiliates are aware or not..

  15. #12
    Affiliate Manager NickNap's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 19th, 2010
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    17
    You have a lot of variables in play here, especially with pay per lead. It's quite possible they had to tighten the conversion criteria on your traffic when you increased the volume. Do you know, specifically, what the conversion criteria is for your leads to be deemed valid by the merchant?

  16. Thanks From:

  17. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by NickNap View Post
    You have a lot of variables in play here, especially with pay per lead. It's quite possible they had to tighten the conversion criteria on your traffic when you increased the volume. Do you know, specifically, what the conversion criteria is for your leads to be deemed valid by the merchant?
    I found myself heading to the merchant's agreement thingy so.. nope I don't know the conversion criteria for this specific merchant.
    Why would they tighten the conversion criteria when more volume comes in?

    edit: I had a look, it's Online Registration. $2.50 USD performance incentive. That's probably it? The more leads the more the lead should be worth till it doubles to $5.00 USD.
    Last edited by beachbum; May 8th, 2014 at 09:49 PM. Reason: added info

  18. #14
    ABW Ambassador isellstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 9th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,659
    I'm not sure a lot of people on this forum do lead gen? I can tell you that I have read a lot about questionable lead gen activity on the part of programs and perhaps networks on Wicked Fire. It is my impression that lead gen has a lot more corruption than affiliate sales. I know that many people complain that some of the smaller lead gen networks are re-routing leads into their own accounts.

    Here, I'll play devil's advocate... Let's say that most of your leads were invalid always, but because you were doing low volume, they weren't filtered out due to a policy of only policing the higher volume affiliates. Now, once you increased your traffic, you leads started to be examined for the first time because you passed a certain threshold.
    Merchants, any data you provide to Google Shopping should also be in your affiliate network datafeed. More data means more sales!


  19. #15
    Affiliate Manager NickNap's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 19th, 2010
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    17
    BeachBum - Isellstuff is on the right track with his devil's advocacy speculation. Let's say the merchant has a preferred target with their online registration - maybe it's based on sex, location, age, or some other data point they ask during the registration. So maybe they prefer women 40-55 years old, but they have tolerances and will accept (pay for) both men and women older and younger as long as it doesn't exceed whatever percentage keeps their ROI positive. Maybe your traffic has been more of the outlier demographic but at low volume it wasn't a problem for them. Once you increased the traffic and began to skew those tolerable percentages for them, they had to adjust.
    Ideally, this should all be communicated to you. And if I were you, I wouldn't embark on any lead-gen offer without knowing exactly what data they will accept and agree to fire the conversion pixel for.


  20. #16
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    ehhh isellstuff that's great input!!

    That means that the feedback from the data will become more more reliable once the volume increases, and changing advertiser might only achieve a "resetting" of the process, because the new one might once more not process his leads, they just pay up and hope for the best, till I analyze my data, invest more money in the campaign, buy more traffic and then they'll change the goal posts again. Great.

    Nipnap, I agree, yes.. what if it is murderers that they are looking for, and my sites vary from having photo galleries with public domain mugshots of murderers, to law dictionaries, to forums where people go for help, to Article directory help articles and every one of the affiliate links all converge into channel A for one advertiser, channel B for another and channel C for the third and last one.
    That is one set up I have. If you are a lawyer looking for clients I don't care what they have to do to fire your pixel, I will send you 100 clicks and if I see a few conversions I work on THAT data to decide if I want to send you 200 or if I want to cut you off.

    I mentioned lawyes, and yes that is something I do but it is so varied what I do. The common denominator I guess is people with a problem and to solve it they are seeking some help and to get that help they need to provide a contact email, a valid home address and phone number.
    And so they hit the search engines, the forums, the social networks and you try and be in all those places via all the means that are available to you.. ppc, articles, press releases, plr, write myself, viral videos on youtube.. whatever.
    All this to say that it is wholesale traffic and then it is up to your receptionist or whoever you place there to sift through it all.
    I could even do that sifting myself if I had to but in that case I'd specialize only in that and why should I since they are already doing it with call centres etc
    sorry about the rambling, hope it made sense, feel free to dissect and be critical etc it's all help to me

  21. #17
    Affiliate Network Rep JCrooks - AffiliateWindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7th, 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,988
    If you are generating legal leads for lawyers, then my guess is yes, your quality declined below acceptable levels when you increased the volume. At a low volume, one lead can keep you safe, but at a higher volume, it takes more good ones to stay above the necessary thresholds. (I used to be an affiliate manager in that industry).
    Jeannine Crooks - Always happy to share what I know! - Voted Best Network Rep 2013 & 2014
    Email | LinkedIn | Twitter | Affiliate Window
    US Programs | Canada Programs | UK Programs | Ireland Programs | Mainland Europe Programs

  22. #18
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    in other words, one should pile up the advertisers and drop feed them a bit of traffic to each one, the opposite of what I have always done.
    My attitude is to eliminate the ones who are less able to capture the lead, so the more they convert and the more stable they are in their conversions, the more traffic they get.

  23. #19
    Affiliate Network Rep JCrooks - AffiliateWindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7th, 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,988
    No, that's not what I said. If you are sending quality traffic, then you can just work with one merchant who converts the best. If you aren't, even the bad merchants will eventually figure out that the traffic quality isn't good and remove you from the program.
    Jeannine Crooks - Always happy to share what I know! - Voted Best Network Rep 2013 & 2014
    Email | LinkedIn | Twitter | Affiliate Window
    US Programs | Canada Programs | UK Programs | Ireland Programs | Mainland Europe Programs

  24. #20
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    20
    Yes, I also agree that being removed from the program of even a bad merchant would be a fair destiny for anyone sending bad quality traffic. Waste of time for all parties involved, really.
    Thanks for all the great answers!

  25. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Affiliate Networks vs. In house Hosted Networks Linkjuice?
    By PDXreader in forum Merchant Best Practices Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: April 23rd, 2009, 12:47 PM
  2. Affiliate Networks - Why Merchant Fees Info is Missing?
    By Geno Prussakov in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: November 6th, 2008, 06:16 PM
  3. New user looking for general info
    By nujuke in forum Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: April 3rd, 2008, 10:11 PM
  4. Access to Sales Info from Networks
    By RacerX in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: October 4th, 2007, 11:34 AM
  5. Why donít the networks test merchant tracking/conversions?
    By SuccessPoint in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 9th, 2005, 09:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •