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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    Todd or anybody!

    Anyone seeing "HUGE" sale reversal on CJ?

    I have one merchant that reversing most of my sale from them from last month (mind you I was excited that they finally converting! and that excitement didn't last!)

    Does anybody else having this problem from CJ?

    I just can't understand this people doing this kind of behaviour!

    I wouldn't not cry or whine about the reversal if they just give you some freaking reason on what is going on and let you know so your emotion is not a seesaw!

    This kind of thing makes you wanna explode and somehow Cj don't care if you lose as long as they are not!

    I know I will not get a respond from this people but I just want to know if anybody else is having a huge reversal on thier merchant from CJ?

    CJ's merchants seems to do this kind of behaviour and I am finding it in the hard way!

    Thanks for any info you could give me!

    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-)

  2. #2
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    What merchant? What is their reversal %?

    Shake your booty

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    I don't want to put the merchant name (Yet!)
    I give them one more day to respond and if they don't I will post it here!


    I am just hoping it's CJ error from updating what ever!

    This is the reversal rate of this Merchant 44.60% ! I just looked at it!

    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-)

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Forget what I said regarding CJ's site being down. Back up.

    [This message was edited by 7-days on February 05, 2003 at 03:26 PM.]

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador ToughTurkey's Avatar
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    I typically have about $4000-5000 in commissions reversed each month. I used to be furious, but now I am numb.

  6. #6
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    Reversals are just the tip of the iceberg in the smoke and mirrors accounting/reporting of affiliate programs, IMHO, and it's across the board at the networks and independents both.

    I had one independent redirecting my affilate referrals and replacing my code with their own internal code. They could turn this redirection on and off simply by turning off a server. An oversight they said! Forgot to email me the new links before turning off the old server for good. Should have heard them whine when I shut them off for good.

    Another one with a network is telling me the surge in reversals was credit card fraud from Nigeria (awww c'mon, for products orders!). Nevermind that they kept coding the reason for reversals as "out of stock", typically two or three weeks after the order was placed.

    Yet another one whose sales for January vanished despite several thousand click-throughs said some of their people were on vacation and didn't get around to processing the referrals for a few weeks.

    I'm hearing a lot of lame excuses these days. It's a sign of the times and it's a sign of affiliates getting fed up with the shakey accounting and reporting.

    At least CJ has acted to put those reversals right in front of our face, rather than sweeping them under yesterday's carpet. I'm sure it's very painful for them to do this but after all the screaming and yelling and knashing of teeth they'll have a better network IMHO.

    Some, and perhaps many, of the incredible reversals may be perfectly legitimate but it seems there's no standard way of processing and reporting them.

    And I challenge all the networks to post right here at ABW to what extent they audit reversals.

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    quote:
    This is the reversal rate of this Merchant 44.60% ! ~Nova


    I've found that the only way to keep reversals at a minimum is to avoid promoting merchants with reversal rates like that! Occasionally a high-reversal-rate fluke will sneak into my stable but it's a rarity. (It's a rare merchant who can sell enough to still be worth promoting *despite* a high rev. rate!) By aiming for places with very low (or, in the best case, ZERO) reversal rates, I'm able to keep most of my commissions in my account.

    -Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

  8. #8
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    There's little that can generate more ill will than reversals, especially those incredible ones. Merchants should do everthing possible to keep them down.

    Bad credit card reversals should be made immediately, not days laters.

    Out of stock commissions should not be reversed. The affiliate did their job, but the merchant did not.

    Routine customer returns should just be factored into to the upfront commission rate and not charged back. After all, some of those returns will be replaced with something else. I wonder how many merchants bother to go back and give the affiliate a commission on that.

    All reversals should be audited or approved by the networks, if the merchant is a network member.

    Allowing the merchant to have a blank check for reversals may be a good selling point for them but it can spell disaster for the affiliate, and wreck a good relationship.

  9. #9
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    quote:
    All reversals should be audited or approved by the networks


    AMEN!!!!

    The merchants should be required to substantiate all reversals, "invalid cc" in particular. Granted, most are legitimate, but it is just TOO EASY for some chiseler to just *say* that a CC transaction did not clear.

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

  10. #10
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Nova:
    This is the reversal rate of this Merchant 44.60%


    I dont feel happy at all when i make sales with them. They have reversed every sales i had with them recently. Not worth it IMHO.

  11. #11
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    >>They have reversed every sales i had with them recently. Not worth it IMHO.

    I've got a pair of size 12 combat boots. Wanna borrow them?

  12. #12
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Reversals are only half of it.. one merchant (TheMobileRepublic) took 5,000 clicks and converted none. I changed to another merchant (this time at Befree) and... suprise.. they convert quite well.

    CJ did some investigation which indicated that their tracking was off for a *month* - but I also think that they tried a trick of moving from batch to live and back to batch again, dumping the batch transactions in the process.

    This is not the first time they've done this - a few months ago they sent out a "sorry we didn't upload the data so you're not going to get paid anything" email to affiliates.

    They were deactivated for a fortnight from CJ and didn't notice!

    A simple trick of not registering any sales at all - so nothing to reverse. About half of their sales that might slip through get reversed.

    Fraud? I think so.

    ________
    Please leave my port 137 alone.

  13. #13
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Whiznot:
    Bad credit card reversals should be made immediately, not days laters.
    All reversals should be audited or approved by the networks, if the merchant is a network member.



    I agree with you, I would be happy for all our reversals to be audited by CJ (or a trusted third party).

    The only reversals I have made in the past 4 months were two case at the same time of an affiliate using a stolen credit card to place very large orders with the aim of keeping the commission. Luckily I saw and investigated those and reversed the sales the following day.

    One point to make regarding credit cards: Merchants typically don't know until at least a month after the order that a card is bad. If they are doing their job they will be declining all bad cards automatically at time of sale, so the only ones that slip through are those recently stolen. In those cases the order isn't cancelled until the card owner realises it is stolen and does a chargeback.

    That said, I do not pass chargebacks onto the affiliates by calcenning their commission, they did their job by bringing me a customer and its not their fault that customer was a crook.

    Regards,

    Mark Mitford
    Sales Director
    Dotster, Inc
    http://www.dotster.com/
    15% Commission - 90 day cookie - 0% reversals

  14. #14
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    We have a few reversals a day, which is common in our industry. Either people don't have $5,000 in unsecured US Debt or its some false lead like Harry Potter. Our EPC and Return rate are so screwy right now because of scam sites that were in our network, which stole identification information and entered it into the form. CJ was VERY quick and good about removing them.

    Daniel Fink
    Affiliate Marketing Coordinator
    FreeDebtConsolidation.com
    Dan@Intermarkmedia.com

  15. #15
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    quote:
    Originally posted by FreeDebtConsolidation:
    Its some false lead like Harry Potter.


    Harry Potter? movie ...

  16. #16
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    It followed the book really well, but I did get bored with it lol

    Daniel Fink
    Affiliate Marketing Coordinator
    FreeDebtConsolidation.com
    Dan@Intermarkmedia.com

  17. #17
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    Does the merchant you are promoting have a return policy for its customers? Returns are always disheartening, whether your on the sales floor or doing internet marketing. But if you are promoting retail sales products (like guitars for example) the more volume you do, especially with a company that has a generous return policy in order to compete in the market, the more you will see an occasional return. I have experienced that both on the sales floor and on the internet. But certainly you are entitled to an expediant reply if you ask for one and a full explanation should be made. Especially if you find that it becomes consistent. Good luck with your situation.

    Raymond "Catfish" Comstock
    Director of Internet Marketing
    http://www.guitartrader.com
    catfish@guitartrader.com

  18. #18
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    Mark Mitford, you are a Saint! You are more generous that one should expect. If I send you a fraud, or a buyer with a maxed out credit card, I don't feel you owe me a thing. But your approach shows you place a high value on your affiliate relationships. You deserve a round of appluase!

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the information and I have found out that they give 30 days return policy and I did get an email from CJ (still nothing from the Merchant!).

    These things happens and it just too frustrating to me.

    They make you excited that you are making sales then two weeks or three or even months later they reverse most of your sales!
    So the income you think you have is KAPUT!
    And that is without any explanation from Network or Merchants! Which it doesn't make any sense to me, But if you are in real world they will chew your ass if this happens!

    The lack of support Affiliate Member go through is unbelievable to embrace when we are the one working hard and most part for free to give this people business! AMAZING IS IN IT?

    Someday hopefully we can all get some kind a break and have at least some kind of % to get support!

    oH WELL one more merchant out of my site!
    This weeding out merchants is fun it's easier to remove them than creating links and touch up to advertise them!

    Again Thanks for your input fellow member!

    have a great weekend all! (party time! lol...)

    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-)

  20. #20
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    Greeting for the warriors of CJ, I also experience of reversal counted 90% from one of [the] merchant. They System for transaction is not peaceful, become there is gap to try invalid credit card. Make report bookkeeping of us become rose colored all.This System make one who do not want to steal to become thief.

  21. #21
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    Hi! I'm sorry to read about your sales being reversed. I can say from a Affiliate Manager pov, that's not much fun to do. My company has it's own internal tracking that we run against CJ. Whenever I've had to reverse a sale, they give you the option of posting a reason. It's so easy to do..and I wonder why the merchants (who reversed your sales) didn't post a reason. hmmm I'd suggest emailing the Merchant. If they are worth their weight, they'll look the sales up for you, and let you know if it was due to a declined credit card, or something. Good luck!

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    thanks,


    I have email the merchant I am talking about four times and not a single response.

    they are out of my site and out of mind.

    if they pay me what they owe that is great which I doubth that! there is lot's of merchants that don't give a crap about people that work hard to promote them and they don't have time to answer any question.
    but they do have time to send you promotion and some thanks that we send them business.

    weeding out merchants that do not care is easy!

    I work hard to make a living and promote this suckers and they don't give me a few minutes of their time to answer me?
    hat is unprofessional and I don't need to waste my time anymore for this merchants that do not care anything about people that work hard to promote them!

    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-)

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about your merchant problem Nova. I totally agree with dumping them off.

    No contact .. No More Sales ... Good Bye.

    Ray Thomas
    DesignerWiz.com CEO
    Development Resource & Javascript Public Archive Center
    http://DesignerWiz.com

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