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  1. #1
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    Confusion about programming code
    Guys,

    Tell me why JavaScript, flash, frame, I frame or table is not good for seo.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    I don't know where you got that, but it is not 100% accurate. Many sites in first place use javascripts, (correctly optimized javascripts are fine and even recommended by Google) and Google AdSense often presents ads in Flash format. What can hurt a site is using iframes because of security issues between servers, especially when elements are not natural. An iframe with secure parameters is often found on merchant sites. If you're using Flash for the content, then no, you won't do well. Have you noticed the number of mobile devices browsing that don't have flash or have it only via a browser prefetch? It is a poor user experience to give good ranking to those sites. Flash files are heavy and anyone with a data plan can tell you they aren't happy to land on a page that uses the rest of their months supply of bandwidth. Page speed is important today and many of the elements mentioned in your question are not mobile friendly, they are resource intensive and load slower than their competitors' sites. BTW, none of these are considered programming code.

  3. #3
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    Oh! Thank you so much for a such good information.

  4. #4
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Actually, there is some legitimacy to the statement. With things like Flash, external JavaScript, and IFRAMEs, any encapsulated content is not directly in the HTML code for the page, so it's much more difficult (if not impossible) for search engines to index that content and associate it with your page.

    Tables are no problem. Regular frames are not a problem for SEO, although they don't provide the best of user experiences.

    I think it's always best to keep the HTML as simple and straightforward as possible.
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  5. #5
    Newbie jkingston's Avatar
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    Links generated by Javascript used to have a problem being crawled, but Google's pretty advanced now. I suspect most of these things are closer to being ok than not, but most people stay away from them (including myself). Except flash, flash is still a no-no

    What it comes down to is whether or not a crawler can read your content. It can't in flash just as it can't in images.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador isellstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkingston View Post
    Links generated by Javascript used to have a problem being crawled, but Google's pretty advanced now.
    But I would never take the chance. Imagine putting so much work into a website design only to determine six months down the road that your javascript is in some way harming your SEO. I would personally always have doubts about whether I was getting as much PR juice as I could be having with html links.
    Merchants, any data you provide to Google Shopping should also be in your affiliate network datafeed. More data means more sales!

  7. #7
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    My opinion is using Javascript/Jquery for usability is ok like form validation, form submissions, rollover effects. But I wouldn't serve content using JS.

    Many mobile browsers don't support flash, they serve up a big black space holder when presented with flash content. That's horrible user experience, I wldn't use it.

    AJAX. Though it's JavaScript, I use AJAX to load paginated content. It offers better user experience. A wide 'Show More Results' button at the bottom of the page loads the next page through AJAX. But I also have html links for the paginated content (Page 1, 2, 3 etc) at the bottom of the page for the crawlers.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    Google reads and executes javascript, the only thing they get judgmental about it is if it slows down your page load or if it is used in ways that wouldn't pass the sniff test. They have entire sections dedicated to telling people how to optimize javascript to minimize the unwanted effects. They say to use minimized external .js files wherever possible, move scripts out of the head and closer to the </body tag for just a few simple tips. I browse with flash turned off for most sites, even on a desktop browser. It is a poor experience on mobile as sam_park said.

    Since the question was about SEO effects, these are the points that count (imho): speed, accessibility, user experience. I would not lump Flash in with javascript or html elements. When properly implemented, flash is the only thing listed I would not use. Google claims to gauge usability before presenting Flash, but they make assumptions. I get the black box a lot.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador isellstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2busy View Post
    Google reads and executes javascript,
    Are you sure about that? I know that Google has the ability and that they have used a special crawler in the past to index pages with all elements/scripts loaded, but I didn't know they did this in their daily crawls that build their index.

    Since the question was about SEO effects, these are the points that count (imho): speed, accessibility, user experience.
    So I hear this a lot from my friends who are computer programmers but not business owners. Ajax and asynchronous page loading is a super problem from a SEO perspective and thus from an end user perspective. If I crawler indexes ajax pagination, for instance, but the destination url doesn't reflect this pagination, then the user is going to land on a page that doesn't resemble the SERP snippet.

    There is currently a trend to program everything in javascript on the server and on the client. Programmers envision cool in browser applications that can resemble client apps. This zeal for that latest shiny stuff needs to be tempered by the practicality of what will happen when a user clicks on a "deep link" into a javascript website via the SERPS.

    IMHO, Javascript is best used for page elements that don't need to be indexed.
    Merchants, any data you provide to Google Shopping should also be in your affiliate network datafeed. More data means more sales!


  10. #10
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isellstuff View Post
    Are you sure about that? I know that Google has the ability and that they have used a special crawler in the past to index pages with all elements/scripts loaded, but I didn't know they did this in their daily crawls that build their index.
    I don't know if it's part of their standard crawl, or not - last time I read anything on it the Google said "We follow links in javascript to find additional pages We may have missed" - or something along those lines.

    Do they do it? Yes. Frequency? Don't know...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

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  12. #11
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    There are two ways you could interpret that.

    Are they just scanning through JavaScript code to find URLs of pages that they might have missed.

    Or are they EXECUTING JavaScript and indexing the resulting text content?

    Those are very different things. The first is extremely simple. The second is far more complex. Not beyond what they are capable of doing, but I'm not convinced that they actually do that.

    Someone could pretty easily do some experimenting to confirm for sure which way it works.
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  14. #12
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    Pretty easy to test now that they claim to offer to show you in your GWT account exactly what their crawlers see on your pages. I haven't tried it so maybe I should get full details before adding more, but I know it is something in GWT that used to be just "Fetch as Google", and now it has options.

  15. #13
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    Some quick info from the horse's mouth:
    This is an important idea: the browser can execute JavaScript and produce content on the fly - the crawler cannot. To make the crawler see what a user sees, the server needs to give a crawler an HTML snapshot, the result of executing the JavaScript on your page. Our approach enables exactly that: it allows the site owner's own web server to return to the crawler this HTML -- created from static content pieces as well as by executing JavaScript -- for the application's pages. This is what we call an HTML snapshot. https://developers.google.com/webmas...ocs/learn-more

    From the guidelines page, if you do a search for: Does Googlebot crawl javascript? It returns some very helpful pages for webmasters with questions about using AJAX and how to make it better. That's how I got the snippet above.


  16. #14
    ABW Ambassador isellstuff's Avatar
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    That's a good page. Here is a key quote:
    If you're starting from scratch, one good approach is to build your site's structure and navigation using only HTML. Then, once you have the site's pages, links, and content in place, you can spice up the appearance and interface with AJAX. Googlebot will be happy looking at the HTML, while users with modern browsers can enjoy your AJAX bonuses.
    Just so everyone is clear... Ajax stands for "Asynchronous Javascript and XML" and it just means that page elements can be loaded asynchronously. For example, say a user clicks a button/link and then new content is fetched from the server and inserted into the already loaded page.
    Last edited by isellstuff; July 8th, 2014 at 08:32 PM.
    Merchants, any data you provide to Google Shopping should also be in your affiliate network datafeed. More data means more sales!

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