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  1. #1
    Merchant tombarrington's Avatar
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    Remarketing from an Affiliate perspective
    From an affiliate perspective how is it viewed when a merchant site uses analytics re-marketing to try and recapture customers that have left the site without purchasing?

    I am referring to re-marketing by showing banners on other sites after the customer has left a retail site they had visited. Not attempting to capture them when they initially "abandon" the site.
    Last edited by tombarrington; July 5th, 2014 at 02:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    If you are referring to a merchant's banner (or product) that shows up everywhere you go online, just because you happened to check out something on their website? -- I cannot stand them. But as to them being effective to bring back the customer - I have no idea.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  3. #3
    Affiliate Network Rep JCrooks - AffiliateWindow's Avatar
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    Couple different possibilities here.

    Usually the on-site remarketing involves a pop-up. For some merchants, this is inconsistent with their design, approach, etc, so they can't do so before the consumer leaves the site.

    If the customer didn't give information, such as an email address, it may be harder to retarget them right after their cart abandonment.

    That leaves cookies which were dropped as part of the visit. Google and their co-horts love using that to choose banners. Used to be much easier to opt-out of some of those ads, but now it seems almost impossible.

    I agree with LeeAnn, I hate it, and I do wonder if it does any good at all.... I kept getting ads about donating a car for weeks after we'd done it, and I still keep getting ads to donate money to some causes, even though it's been 4 months since I designated those causes for donations when my Mom died.

    My favorite part is that sometimes I'll have the same ad in 3 different sizes on the same page. Seems to be no restrictions on that, and my guess is that merchant is getting charged for 3 impressions simultaneously to the same person. The system is nasty.
    Jeannine Crooks - Always happy to share what I know! - Voted Best Network Rep 2013 & 2014
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  4. #4
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    As long as they don't overwrite affiliate cookies, I have no problem with it.

    I have no doubt that it's effective. It may be annoying, but if I visit Kayak and search for a hotel in Lubbock, the odds are pretty good that I WILL be going to Lubbock and that (if I didn't already book one) I'll need a hotel.
    Michael Coley
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  5. #5
    Merchant tombarrington's Avatar
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    On the one hand, as a surfer / shopper, I often find that the re-marketing ads are way over done and too much in my face, and much too big brother-ish feeling, but I admit they are effective.

    I have read that it positively affects site conversions anywhere from double digit to triple digit percentages.

    I don't believe the technology is smart enough yet. (for me, if i go back and make the purchase later, I'd sure hope that it would somehow delete that re-marketing cookie and update it with something to say that I already made the purchase)

    From a website owner perspective I can certainly see the attractiveness of the concept, as long as it doesn't alienate my potential customers by showing them too many ads, to the point where they get pissed and never come back.

    I have not been able to find any commentary anywhere that would suggest it does anything at all to affiliate cookies. If anyone has any more detail on how this part of the re-marketing works, please jump in here and let me know if it does affect affiliate cookies i any way.

  6. #6
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    One of my merchants uses MediaForge and its considered a different channel. They get rewarded for returning visitors to the site and it doesn't over write the affiliate cookie. So for affiliates it a conversion enhancer.

    I offered to work with them to add a referrer to their links but never got that far. Its tough for retargeting to work on a performance basis as there is lots of breakage in links. I have seen that this vendors banners have greatly improved after meeting with them and the merchants webmaster last year. They now have interactive banners that let you shop via the banner.

    The three ad blocks of different sizes on the same page are via Google retargeting. I agree it is in poor taste to see three ads on the same page. I see it a lot with newbie affiliate applications but they have no control over the ads.

  7. #7
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombarrington View Post
    I have not been able to find any commentary anywhere that would suggest it does anything at all to affiliate cookies. If anyone has any more detail on how this part of the re-marketing works, please jump in here and let me know if it does affect affiliate cookies i any way.
    I don't know of any that specifically overwrite affiliate cookies, but I know that some of the more prominent email remarketers that many merchants used to use DID.

    Some merchants use attribution to suppress affiliate tracking if the customer was last touched through a different channel (like a merchant newsletter, AdWords, etc.). Those merchants would probably consider remarketing as a separate channel. I think this is TOTALLY wrong for merchants to do, as they essentially neuter their affiliate program, negating any return days.

    As an affiliate, anytime anything else touches the customer, the cart, or checkout, I'm wary. We've been burned over and over again.
    Michael Coley
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  8. #8
    Newbie jkingston's Avatar
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    1. I've done a lot of work with remarketing and it makes a huge different. Remarketing CPA is usually a fraction of my regular CPA. As to the technology, there are fairly simple (and no extra cost) options available to segment your remarketing campaigns. That means that if you set up a campaign correctly it should not show the same type of ad to a return customer as a potential customer. Hope that makes sense...

    2. Is there any type of technology out there that allows an affiliate to lay their own cookie that would track what happens when their visitors leave their site with regards to the merchant's site? Sort of a checks and balances so the affiliate understands what's going on? Just a thought

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  10. #9
    Affiliate Manager
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    We do facebook retargeting.
    As merchant, it is a very different approach vs. affiliate.

    BUT -- if we had an affiliate who also invested the time and energy to really set it up correctly, we would embrace their efforts.

    1. customer is browsing affiliate site and sees a review for our product
    2. affiliate retargets the customer with link to the product
    3. Affiliate did all the work so affil gets the commission

    BUT -- retargeting can be complicated... requires an effort to get the feed right. AND depending on the platform, affil may not have access to the data feed.

    For example, Perfect Audience uses the Google PLA feed. Affiliate does not have access to this (unless they make their own).

    Mediaforge feed is their own, but too expensive and until a site has millions of visitors, MF may not be a cost effective service.

    We have been using perfect audience and our CPM has been low enough, and converting quite well!

    I welcome the affiliate smart enough to use retargeting technology to get a conversion - as long as they don't try to look like they are my site. Look -- the retarget was because of the customer visit to the affiliate site, not mine -- so it's the affil's cookie to convert. SO if it's profitable, why not?

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  12. #10
    Merchant tombarrington's Avatar
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    I have a question posed in the Google Analytics forum regarding this issue and will update this thread when I receive an answer.

  13. #11
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeann View Post
    If you are referring to a merchant's banner (or product) that shows up everywhere you go online, just because you happened to check out something on their website? -- I cannot stand them. But as to them being effective to bring back the customer - I have no idea.
    15%-25% sales uplift is the average, depending on the sector, if done right.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  14. #12
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick View Post
    One of my merchants uses MediaForge and its considered a different channel. They get rewarded for returning visitors to the site and it doesn't over write the affiliate cookie. So for affiliates it a conversion enhancer.
    Yep, totally separate but they can make use of the affiliate datafeed. Fortunately it helps if the merchant is on Rakuten Linkshare.

    Trialling them at the moment for a client. A lot of integration involved, especially when the client wants to start using things like Tagman for all channels.

    The one drawback to consider is that despite operating CPA (sales), Mediaforge will not entertain reconciliations. For them a sale is a sale and if you get a fraudulent order or a cancellation then tough. They generated the sale and want paying. Unlike other CPA suppliers who either can operate direct or via affiliate networks who can have orders reversed, Mediaforge don't do this.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

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  16. #13
    Affiliate Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jupp View Post
    15%-25% sales uplift is the average, depending on the sector, if done right.
    "if done right" is the $1,000,000 answer! :-)

    the problem with some retargeting campaigns, is the advertiser doesn't pinpoint -- and it is very easy to waste $$$$$ on eyeballs that will never be your customer.

    the BEAUTY of retargeting (if done right) is that for relatively little $, the advertiser can reach (remind) a shopper who has already been to your site once. This segmenting permits a different message or a targeted message -- customers who have been looking at products in XYZ category will see creatives targeting what they were looking at. WAY MORE EFFECTIVE than straight branding.

    BUT for the affiliate, you have to be smarter than the merchant to make this work for you. But sometimes, that's not as difficult as it sounds :-)

  17. #14
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpeperdiem View Post
    "if done right" is the $1,000,000 answer! :-)

    the problem with some retargeting campaigns, is the advertiser doesn't pinpoint -- and it is very easy to waste $$$$$ on eyeballs that will never be your customer.

    the BEAUTY of retargeting (if done right) is that for relatively little $, the advertiser can reach (remind) a shopper who has already been to your site once. This segmenting permits a different message or a targeted message -- customers who have been looking at products in XYZ category will see creatives targeting what they were looking at. WAY MORE EFFECTIVE than straight branding.

    BUT for the affiliate, you have to be smarter than the merchant to make this work for you. But sometimes, that's not as difficult as it sounds :-)
    Absolutely! The easiest way to ensure excellent retargeting by affiliates is to HAVE A WORKING UPDATED DATAFEED!!!!!, preferably with dual pricing (normal and offer - enter same figure if same), plus an updated integration so affiliates can see what is selling. In fact you should share sales data with the retargeters so they don't waste $$$$$ and focus on the sellers that are browsed.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  18. #15
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    VERY interesting thread.

    Retargeting as an affiliate is something we know little to nothing about. Have been meaning to investigate further.

    • What sort of traffic volume to the affiliate site is required/suggested (optimal)?
    • What sort of payout to the retargeting service is normal?
    • Do merchants need to sign-off on it? Serious question, never seen it in anyone's terms.


    Keep it rollin'...
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  19. #16
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    VERY interesting thread.

    Retargeting as an affiliate is something we know little to nothing about. Have been meaning to investigate further.

    • What sort of traffic volume to the affiliate site is required/suggested (optimal)?
    • What sort of payout to the retargeting service is normal?
    • Do merchants need to sign-off on it? Serious question, never seen it in anyone's terms.


    Keep it rollin'...
    I will answer this point by point.

    You will be responsible for (browser) retargeting ALL visitors who do not leave the site via the checkout process. Those that leave via checkout but don't buy get retargeted by cart abandonment retargeting (either internally managed or 3rd party/affiliate). To reduce expenditure (as you are buying the ad space out of your own pocket), most affiliates in this space will use analytical data to focus on core products using data supplied by the retailer. If clear widgets are a popular seller and other colors are also popular, it doesn't make sense to waste money on retargeting those who browsed the specialty spiked widgets, as they may be limited availability and not popular. Equally you don't retarget products that go out of stock, hence the need for a datafeed updated daily. Stay on target solely promoting high volume merchandise which is always in stock and which is popular.

    Some retargeters operate a click based or impressions based service as you are effectively recompensing the affiliate for the ad space which they have paid for by the impression (x 1000) or per click from the site owners. Firms like Criteo and AdRoll offer this. However retailers want value for money so they want CPA (sale) and would therefore expect to have to pay between 10% and 15% commission if the AOV was around $80. It should be noted that under such an arrangement, a typical affiliate program may only pay 8% - 12% tiered. What the retargeter will look at is cost of ad, conversion metric data (how many sales per clicks delivered) of the retailer, AOV and average monthly sales, plus number of visitors. They would also expect all the other data I mentioned regarding sales data on popular products, availability etc and they'd expect a daily liaison and also a fully working feed, updated daily or twice a day. The retarger wants to make a profit through the service they provide. They will pay for the ad space and expect to earn a living from this. If there's no profit in it for them immediately, they may require a minimum monthly fee, in addition to commissions. That minimum monthly fee can range from a few hundred dollars a month to a couple of thousand. Retargeters are leaning towards this latter approach but it's not yet widespread.

    Merchants do need to sign off on this. For ease of use they may do this via the affiliate network rather than a direct relationship and use affiliate tracking plus the retargeters own solution in collaboration. That way the affiliate manager gets the reporting through the same platform and the retargeter still gets paid, albeit via the affiliate network, but there's still some tech integration needed on the retailer's own site that needs integrating and testing. Then of course it has to be determined whether there should be an element of post impression cookie involved as well. Setting the parameters for this is complex and should be on another thread. In the interim, speak to an account manager at an affiliate network and they can pass you to the network techies who can explain more. Retargeting is a key decision by a retailer and they will generally only use 1 retargeter for browser retargeting and 1 other affiliate for cart abandonment retargeting.

    YOU WILL BE EXPECTED TO GENERATE AT LEAST 15% OF ALL AFFILIATE TURNOVER VIA A SUCCESSFUL AFFILIATE PROGRAM retargeting is that big.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

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  21. #17
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Is it logical for an affiliate to use a retargeting service to simply get return visitors.

    Meaning, a visitor goes to a product page on the affiliate's site, and on that product page is a product for xyz merchant - question is, does it make sense for an affiliate to then continue to get that visitor's attention BACK to the affiliate site for additional sales. This would be based on whether or not the visitor to the affiliate product page clicked on the affiliate link or not. If, there was an outbound click - no retargeting. If there was not an outbound click, then retargeting (in attempts to get visitor back to affiliate site, not merchant) is then attempted.

    Clear as mud?
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  22. #18
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    Is it logical for an affiliate to use a retargeting service to simply get return visitors.

    Meaning, a visitor goes to a product page on the affiliate's site, and on that product page is a product for xyz merchant - question is, does it make sense for an affiliate to then continue to get that visitor's attention BACK to the affiliate site for additional sales. This would be based on whether or not the visitor to the affiliate product page clicked on the affiliate link or not. If, there was an outbound click - no retargeting. If there was not an outbound click, then retargeting (in attempts to get visitor back to affiliate site, not merchant) is then attempted.

    Clear as mud?
    Erm nope. Not worth doing. Let's suppose an affiliate pays you say 10% commission via an affiliate program and the conversion rate click to sale is 5%. So 5 clicks in a 100 to the merchant are sales and lets say the AOV is only $50, so an average $250 in sales for 100 clicks, that's $25 in commission at 10%. Now let's look at your affiliate page and say you get 100 visitors to that page for 5 clicks to the merchant. You would need 2000 visitors to that page to generate 100 clicks to the merchant to get 5 sales from those clicks to the merchant for a mere 25 bucks. Can you buy ad space (click based) from a retargeter who requires a minimum monthly spend (say $1,000 minimum) to justify the volume? You would need 80,000 visitors to your affiliate page just to repay the cost of the retargeting on a 5% conversion ratio across the board (5% from you to retailer, 5% from retailer to sale). Also what if they specify attribution modelling and have their own retargeter not integrated into the affiliate channel? What if they decide that's outside the affiliate channel? Then you've wasted that money anyhow.

    Nope it would not be commercially viable for you as an affiliate to pay a retargeter to send traffic to you in the vague hope of sending traffic then to a retailer. It would just not be commercially viable for you.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

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  24. #19
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Thanks John!

    Just wasn't sure what the associated costs were with using a retargeting service.

    Was hoping if a visitor was on our site looking for a specific shoe, or specific merchant, or whatever - that they could be retargeted to visit our site again. Sort of a reminder "Hey, you can get blue widgets on our website" sort of thing.

    Thanks, again!
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  25. #20
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    John what about an affiliate retargeting all visitors back to their site? Not sure you can retarget to a individual product page but to the general site. That way it effects all affiliate site visitors not just the localized page.

  26. #21
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick View Post
    John what about an affiliate retargeting all visitors back to their site? Not sure you can retarget to a individual product page but to the general site. That way it effects all affiliate site visitors not just the localized page.
    Sure if you can afford to then fine as you'll be referring customers solely back to your site (big coupon/cashback sites take note) but it would be click based.

    Take a look at Criteo for example Get started and you see click based advertising basics explained.

    They use segmentation so in theory you could assign a segment for each page (thousands of pages on coupon sites for example - 1 per merchant) and the ad could be oriented towards that merchant linking back to your internal page. The ad would show your logo (ad clickable back to your internal page) and the strapline of say 15% OFF AT MYMERCHANT USE CODE 1234
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  27. #22
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Just remember Chuck that whether to an internal page or just to your affiliate site in general, you are paying PER CLICK, so you need to create your ad to be displayed and allocate a budget.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  28. #23
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Is it always pay-per-click or are some still view-through or CPM rate like a display campaign?

  29. #24
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Adroll for example use CPM Dynamic CPM Pricing | AdRoll
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

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  31. #25
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Advice Chuck, watch CPM like a hawk. Get an ad on a news site and a budget of $100 a day and you could burn that advertising if it's on a popular news story real quick.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

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