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  1. #1
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    This isn't good news

    Judge Says AdWare is Legal

    what do you guys think?

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    This is a major blow to our efforts. It's like a liscense to steal.

    How much did I really make?

  3. #3
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    Doh!!! What in the world...

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    quote:
    "While at first blush this detour in the user's Web search seems like a siphon-off of a business opportunity, the fact is that the computer user consented to this detour when the user downloaded WhenU's computer software from the Internet," Lee wrote.


    This is a key part of the ruling. I would have to grudgingly agree that if someone knows exactly what they're downloading, there is little legal defense for other affiliates. However, we are all too familiar with the drive-bys. That's where the legal battle needs to be waged. Now the issue is on the radar; it's just a matter of finding the weak spot and jamming a dagger through it.

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
    ---------
    Beware Parasiteware!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  5. #5
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    Karl,

    I agree with you. The battle should be against drive-bys, but also there is the challenge of forcing the parasites to properly disclose the adware and specifically how the parasiteware functions so the user understands.

    IMO the problem with this is that these parasites may disclose the parasiteare in a their user agreement but that the user may accept without reading or understanding.

    Focus needs also to be on the user agreement/acknowledgement.

    Shawn

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    quote:
    WhenU.com's pop-up advertising does not infringe on the trademarks and copyrights


    No Sh*t Sherlock, that angle has been identified as ineffective two years ago. U-Haul's asinine approach /legal perspective on the case really ed all publishers!

    I've read the litigation related documents we can still set a precedence on a correctly formulated foundation!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well are the Networks celebrating their total commitment to BHO software affiliates as the wave of the future? Are they putting all the check writing mailroom Gerbils and office staff on a part time basis as they'll only have to cater to 50-100 affiliates who only demand daily "incent" feeds rather then DLTML displays -banners and text links? Are their merchant's happy that double dipping and extortion gorilla advertising via BHO popup reminders, at higher commission rates, now become the norm destroying their diversion/leakage tactics? Are the networks getting flooded with new merchants selling Ad-Blockers -Ad-ware removal tools -spam eliminators -cookie cutters and commission killing Firewalls?

    Can the darkside of advertising continue to legally pass off Drive-by and hidden bundling of Adware as "user" Opt-Out preferences?? Let he great EyeBall Wars begin as the Bots -SE Robots -contextual Spyware -web bugs and various B-a-HO's fight it out on the browser battlefield against the consumer with a credit card. Are the incent Ad Whores going to take out class action suits against the Blocking S/W companies for restraint of theftware and spammers right to make a living? Tune in folks to ABW as we will have blow by blow coverage.

    MayBe we might see mrmerchant -Herby -Wayne and the BHO trolls drop on by and throw kudios to their clients and ebiz plans. OH watch out for their spin that normal affiliates are the backbone of this industry ...covering up the fact we fuel with pre-sell targeting those contextual alert tools.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on September 08, 2003 at 02:00 PM.]

  8. #8
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Ditto what Haiko said.

    It's Your Money. You earned it. What are you going to do to make sure you get to keep it?

  9. #9
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    Hi Karl,

    While I agree with you about the legal part (infringing on trademarks etc...), I guess I am having a tough time with my ethics and morals. Yes I agree that users who download software agree to all terms & conditions are bound to that installation. But the real world matter is, many users either knowingly or unknowingly:

    1. do not read the entire agreement
    2. do not fully understand implications

    I guess what I trying to say is, praying on users who don't know or don't care is what I can't swallow (more so on the first one).

    If you see a child drowning in the river, it is NOT illegal if you don't try to save him (at least not in Canada I assume). It is however, immoral in my mind. I guess I am seeing this as the same situation.

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  10. #10
    Full Member c4's Avatar
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    I wonder how much $$$ did this judge get in his back pocket ...



    YOURsoft affiliate software
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    A good parasite is a dead parasite. Screw it up and you're screwed!
    Save your affiliate program, save your earnings; Fight ParasiteWareâ„¢!
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    You know, many of the Judges we have today are IDIOTS! They get old and forget what it's like to be a "regular" citizen. I know of a recent case where a motion for summary judgement was granted, even though the side requesting the summary judgement used hearsay evidence several layers deep, destroyed evidence, altered evidence, was sanctioned by the court for discovery noncompliance, and had witnesses that lied under oath!

    The court ruled that the hearsay was "undisputed facts", even though testimony was presented proving otherwise! I wonder if the court even bothered to read the facts of the case!

    If you have money today, you can get a fair trial. If you don't, you're in trouble.

    The Judge ruling in this referenced case probably doesn't even know how to turn on a computer...

    Andy

    _______________
    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  12. #12
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    google adsense... Put them on your site. Get paid. If the whole Internet is going to these thieves, so be it. I do not need to be an affiliate for companies who allow my money to be stolen. There ARE other options now.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Ian:
    Agreed. My main point is that this is clearly not a definitive ruling and the case appears to have attacked the wrong part of the issue.

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
    ---------
    Beware Parasiteware!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  14. #14
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    Karl:
    Yeah, I also get that same impression. It's really too bad.

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  15. #15
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    Thats just one case, there are still more cases pending. Need to get better lawyers. I've always thought who cares what kind of agreement software apps and users get into. The pops happen because of whats on MY SITE, my content. There have been cases such as the ones against Gator where publishers settled and stopped the popping of their site.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    quote:
    in return users receive free software, such as music downloading programs or screensavers.


    For one I don't think these kind of people are big spenders.

    quote:
    noting that 70 percent of the 100 million who have downloaded SaveNow have uninstalled it.



    I think the advertisers they are selling to should be the ones really screaming. What do you think their ROI is?

    We all know text links work better than banners and that before a pop up can load most people have it closed.

    If popup advertising works why aren't all the search engines selling it?

    Eventually the advertisers will realize this is a waste of money and these companies will die off.
    Meantime I don't think I am loosing a lot of sales this way. I know annoying people is not a good way to sell.

    The main problem I see with this type of scum is that in encourages people to use ad blocking software.

  17. #17
    Full Member brianboru's Avatar
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    Heres a quote from the article.

    In his written opinion, Lee clearly sided with WhenU, which argued that Web surfers control their own computers and what appears on them.

    Surfers control their own computers and what appears on them? That is an extreme stretch to say the least.

    Parasites having trouble getting it up on your own? Try Anti-Parasiteware on Viagara or Propecia.

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Don't be so sure this liberal wank Judge is going to unleash these spyware/adware applications. The billions in dollars pilfered by indentity thieves is well documented by DA/AG cybercrimes units seeking to eliminate hidden and bundled downloads compromising folks computers. It is illegal to install anything on anyones computer without their expressed premission.

    Computer security experts said the Lover Spy service and software appeared to violate U.S. law, but also said the surveillance program pointed to an increasingly common way for hackers to seize control of computers.

    Marketed as a way to "catch a cheating lover," the Lover Spy company offers to send an e-mail greeting card to lure the victim to a Web site that will download onto the victim's computer a trojan program to be used for spying.

    The Lover Spy software, sold for $89 for up to five computers, purports to record anything the victim does on the computer, including all keystrokes, passwords, e-mail, chats and screen shots and even turn on the victim's Web camera.

    The spy program discreetly sends the information to the Lover Spy server which then forwards it on to whoever paid for the software, maintaining their anonymity, according to the company Web site, which did not list contact information.

    "Lover Spy is being used today by private investigators worldwide, spouses and parents who want to protect their children," the site claims.

    "You don't need physical access to the computer," said Richard Smith, an independent privacy and security researcher in Boston. "It makes it so you can spy on anybody you want."

    "That would be a felony," said Mark Rasch, former head of the U.S. Department of Justice's computer crime unit and chief security counsel for security company Solutionary. "Loading a program onto someone else's computer without their authorization is patently illegal."

    "Yikes! That is clearly a wiretapping violation," Chris Hoofnagle, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said when told of Lover Spy.

    "It sounds a lot like a commercial version of Magic Lantern," the controversial program the FBI proposed a few years ago to remotely install a keystroke logger onto people under investigation, he said.

    Other spyware exists, such as eBlaster from Florida-based SpectorSoft, but it is installed manually and marketed for customers to install on their own computer, Rasch said.

    "Typically, you have a husband or wife who puts a keystroke logger on the home PC to monitor what Web pages the spouse is going to and what e-mails they're sending," he said.

    However, even installing a spyware program on your own computer may be illegal if it is recording the data of someone else without their consent, depending on the state in which the spying occurs, Hoofnagle said.

    Not only could the Lover Spy company be prosecuted for selling software that enables spying, but the person who pays for the service could face up to 10 years in prison and fines for actual damages under the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, he said. Web sites that surreptitiously send programs to a visitor's computer are an increasingly security menace, said Chris Wysopal, research director at security consultancy AtStake in Boston.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

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