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  1. #1
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    Out in the real world, a sales rep gets paid a base salary, plus a commission on sales.

    Whenever a customer returns to make another purchase, the sales rep who acquired that account gets the commission - regardless of whether he or she was even involved in making the sale.

    So what's up with 2-day, 7-day, even 90-day cookie duration?

    Stats and Surveys are irrelevant here.

    The time has come for the permanent cookie.

  2. #2
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    Actually, if I walk into a retail store and buy something, odds are the sales person who is on the floor at the time gets the commission. If the next time I come in there is a different salesperson, the new one gets the commission. And if the next time I order it's via the phone or catalog, no sales person gets the commission -- even if the sales person gave me the phone number or the catalog.

    Sales contracts in the "real world" are as varied as cookie durations in our world. That's why some merchants can keep sales people and some cannot.

  3. #3
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    I've never trusted cookies to begin with for any length of time. Many users, including myself, clean out their cookies using the disk clean-up with windows. Most people I know that do it generally do it once a month (sometimes more). My father-in-law is probably one of the most computer illiterate people around, and even he does it. Aside from the 1 or 2 day cookies, if a merchant set their cookies for 1 year, how much would you benefit from it. When I open our affiliate program, I will offer a decent length in cookie, but I'm not truly sure how essential it is (over 45 days).

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I 100% agree with Tom, cookies are not a trustworthy way of tracking sales. The only effective way is to have individual account numbered pages. Even this method is not perfect for repeat business if you don't give incentive to a shopper to use the account numbered page on their next visit. This is where coupons come in.

  5. #5
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    LOL...this is the one time MLM comes in handy with replicated websites...sheeesh [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    Tom,

    You get the blue ribbon clue prize - that's what I have been saying for months about why the MLM business model is the ONLY way to market online.

    It tends to protect everyone from the sh*t you get from Snare, BeScrewed, Snare et al.

  7. #7
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    Yes...but a majority of the MLM's I see are scams....doesn't make any difference if how great tracking is, or cookie duration...none of that matter with the MLM scams running around. I like to principle of replicated sites, as well as branded sites

  8. #8
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    How many people are in the habit of bookmarking a merchant's site (after finding it through one of your affiliate links) because they like what they see.

    Somewhere along the line they have a reason to buy (birthday, Christmas, etc.) and they consult the handy list of bookmarks they have assembled just for such occasions...

    I have 2 pages which get very low traffic (average less than 20 page views per day) but which produce checks for me EVERY month. When I get an e-mail from a merchant alerting me that a sale has been made, I check my visitor logs to try to get some idea of where the good traffic is coming from. In many cases the majority of visitors for that day came in through a bookmark.

    I get visitors through bookmarks to my TigerDirect Specials page ("new specials every 4 to 5 days") every day. I can't help but wonder how many people have bookmark Tiger's page, instead of my page, after following a link from my site. No cookie=no checkie.

    I'm not trying to pick on TigerDirect in particular; this is just the best (most relevant) example I have, as so many of us are putting special effort into the TigerDirect promos. If my site visitor bookmarks Tiger's page after following the link from my site today (month of June) and spends a bundle next December for Christmas gifts, why shouldn't I get my 2%?

    I don't think I'm asking for a lot. One of my points about sales reps above is that they must be paid whether they make a sale or not. I don't get paid if I don't produce a sale. If I send the buyer to the seller, the seller should give me my cut, regardless of WHEN the sale was made.

    [ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: Deelz ]

  9. #9
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    As far as bookmarks go, all I want is (cough Haiko) a deal where you send the person to the merchants website and they either buy or not but they are redirected back to my site or wherever I choose to send them after they have finished their business at my merchants website.

    In other words I want my customer back

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Heyder,

    Cough, cough Soon!

    Haiko

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Deelz has the key to longevity in this business. Build a web site that deserves a shoppers bookmark. All other efforts pale in comparison. Regardless of temporary greedy merchants coming and going your hand picked merchant/product choices will get a cookie refreshed if the shopper trusts your judgement. Everything else is "tricks for clicks".

    In the real world I'm torn between mentally bookmarking the sales Gal with the nice boobs or the knowledgeable guy who studies his produce lines...go figure. Maybe that's why porn outsells products online!

    [ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: EcomCity.com ]

  12. #12
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  13. #13
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    Yo Tom,

    You said the

    "majority of the MLM's I see are scams"

    What constitutes a scam?

    Not getting paid? Bad tracking? The Products? The Hype? The You CAN GET RICH factor? Etc?

    Is Amway a scam? Avon? Gillette? Prepaid Legal? HerbalLife?

    How about Prudential Insurance or any major insurance company. Or most restraunt chains where you can buy the franchise for the whole state if they aren't there and then sell franchises to people in the state.

    Is it a scam because you can't make money? or because of the hype - sort of like the 'trusted third party' of CJ?

    Can you be specific?

  14. #14
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    Hi all, about cookies,

    as a program owner I have setup my cookies to a lifetime of 1 year. Fair chance to affiliates to grab recurring traffic....

    On the other side, you are right, people delete their cookies periodically and most
    important, if they don't, the browser software we use will do this automated!

    As I know, IE allows about 200 cookies at a time, the older ones will be dropped out, Netscape will do the same thingy, Opera don't know, but assume there is a comparable thingy...

    So, what can we merchants do about this?

    NOTHING - Because it is by design of the browsers software

    We offer to sign our affiliate sites and the urls will contain your unique id, that never expires until you delete your account

    Not only MLM will do this but every online marketer who has any affiliate prog running.

    Any other chance/ideas to better provide recurring traffic to affiliates sites?

    Of course I could setup my site to send incoming traffic to affiliate sites (like other progs do to favour their paid members), but maybe the result is, they stop doing anything just waiting for the corporate traffic and results about this...

    Need to wait a little until there are thousands - maybe then it is possible...

    Where is the solution you would accept? Gimme an idea pleas..

    Please let me know!

  15. #15
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    quote:
    Originally posted by cschneider:
    As I know, IE allows about 200 cookies at a time, the older ones will be dropped out, Netscape will do the same thingy, Opera don't know, but assume there is a comparable thingy...


    Can't be, a couple months ago I was stunned to look at my secondary computer's cookie directory and found abut 1200 of them in there.

    Long term cookies aren't an answer, as was said too many people clean all cookies or use "treat as session cookies" or whatever (myself, Windows being what it is, end up reinstalling from scratch every 3-4 months, so the cookies are history).

    Giving them a reason to bookmark your page is a start, giving them a reason to click through your links is the end - cookies are only really useful to the surfer to hold passwords and such, a marketer is wasting his time there.

    Myself, I've gotten in the habit of leaving an Explorer window open on my cookie directory so I can delete new ones that show up - 45-50 useful cookies, everything else gets canned within minutes.

    Then again, I'm not a marketer so it's very possible I have no clue what I'm talking about.

  16. #16
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    Fred,
    Sorry didn't see your post until now...You mention legit ones...I said many, not all, and as you know I'm involved in Cognigen. As an example, I just received a spam about selling a sports drink. Commission would be 50%, and I would make 20 dollars for everybody that signed up under me. The focus was to get people to sell under you, and nothing about the product..then get those under me to sign up others under there. Again, they mention a product, but tell you nothing about it. As far as I can tell, it was an expensive Gatorade, however, I wouldn't know because there are no ingredients...nothing at all...just how I can get rich in 2 weeks by getting people to sell this product. As far as I can tell, it is actually a pyramid scheme, but the product is thrown in to keep it legal. Still an MLM...still legal....yet I believe a scam.
    That was my point...I see a lot of those...it wasn't a crack at legit MLM's.

  17. #17
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    >As an example, I just received a spam . . . I believe a scam.

    If it came as a spam, what else could it be?

    No legitimate company spams - only scammers.

  18. #18
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    Not all the time...I get spam from legit companies that hire marketing companies, not knowing they are using scrapers or spamming.
    I got an e-mail yesterday for Ramada Hotels...going to their website and not an affiliate site. It came from a hotmail account (or was forged to appear that way). I recieved one at every e-mail address that is listed on all of our sites so it was apparent that a scraper was used. Still spam....but doesn't make them a scammer...

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by TH Media:
    Not all the time...I get spam from legit companies that hire marketing companies, not knowing they are using scrapers or spamming.

    If a company hires spammers (knowingly or not) in my book that makes them spammers.

    And a company that is NOT to be trusted.

    I got an e-mail yesterday for Ramada Hotels...going to their website and not an affiliate site. It came from a hotmail account (or was forged to appear that way). I recieved one at every e-mail address that is listed on all of our sites so it was apparent that a scraper was used. Still spam....but doesn't make them a scammer...

    I won't say Ramada is a scam, but in a way the email WAS a scam - that spammer was making a commission somehow, which almost always means you could get the deal cheaper direct or some other way - so the email was a scam to the extent it's making you pay more (probably much more) than you would otherwise.

  20. #20
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    quote:
    Originally posted by jaybat:
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by TH Media:
    <STRONG>Not all the time...I get spam from legit companies that hire marketing companies, not knowing they are using scrapers or spamming.</STRONG>

    If a company hires spammers (knowingly or not) in my book that makes them spammers.

    And a company that is NOT to be trusted.

    <STRONG>I got an e-mail yesterday for Ramada Hotels...going to their website and not an affiliate site. It came from a hotmail account (or was forged to appear that way). I recieved one at every e-mail address that is listed on all of our sites so it was apparent that a scraper was used. Still spam....but doesn't make them a scammer...</STRONG>

    I won't say Ramada is a scam, but in a way the email WAS a scam - that spammer was making a commission somehow, which almost always means you could get the deal cheaper direct or some other way - so the email was a scam to the extent it's making you pay more (probably much more) than you would otherwise.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Long cookies - eat 'em if ya got 'em !

    As for keeping the customer - cool. Although it seems like many merchants these days want to keep their cusomers for themselves...so what gives Haiko - Heyder?

    Fred
    _______________________

    You might just be a redneck if..."Your talent in the local beauty pageant was making noises with your armpit"

  22. #22
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    Do you know of any affiliates that forward the details of a customers order? If we had an e-mail ady we could send out the next promotion to them.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    I think there are a couple of merchants that do this, but it's a tricky issue because of the SPAM aspect. Be careful.

    Fred
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    You might just be a redneck if..."Your talent in the local beauty pageant was making noises with your armpit"

  24. #24
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    I think EcomCity has hit one important nail on the head... I got sucked into pay for performance marketing as the current game in town, with respect to advertising models on the web. Since then, I have never, from day one, trusted tracking methods and cookies in general, and think that excessive worrying about them is wasted energy, because so many others, (merchants, parasites, incentive sites), are finding ways to cheat the system.

    Therefore the only reason to waste energy on this issue, is if you are trying to find ways to cheat the system yourself. That is unfortunately, from a purely logical standpoint, the only efficient thinking on this matter, from my perspective. And since I am not looking to cheat the system myself, I am looking for different ways to make affiliate programs work.

    One important way is to make your website a "must stop here first" before buying website. I am not saying I am there but that is my thinking, and that is what keeps me up at night. And so I am trying to brand my site, not simply sell for others.

    And so I cannot worry whether or not completely ubiqutous aspects of this game are being set up to my advantage. Of course they aren't. The smarter AM's get, the more they are looking to use tracking and cookies to their advantage. I am not saying this is true for all AM's but I think with many, if not most of them despite politically correct communication with publishers, (if at all), to some degree, this is an adversarial relationship with website owners (publishers), in general. How can I squeeze the most out of a publisher, and still get him to keep advertising for us.

    It may be cynical, but I think that I can operate more efficiently both in my thinking, and implementation, with that understanding, and also, look for more attractive revenue models that serve my interests at the same time.

    Jonathon Palbicke
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    www.krookedstix.com
    Webmaster@krookedstix.com
    Krooked Stix, Inc.
    It's all golf baby!

  25. #25
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    Hmm, I don't know guys.
    I use cookies to track my visitors (apart from tracking affiliate info).
    Just checked my stats and I have a lot of returned visitors with cookies kept for over 100 days.
    The top one (not including myself) is 239 days 00:19:18.
    First hit registered on 2002-11-16 08:11:13.779-05, last hit 2003-07-13 09:30:31.956-04.
    The second logest lasting visitor is 218 days 19:39:48.
    2002-11-25 20:50:42.707-05 to 2003-07-02 17:30:31.363-04.

    That's pretty good considering that I started tracking visitors last November.

    So not all people remove cookies.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com

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