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  1. #1
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    As you all know, we now make the referral period information available when reviewing program terms for each advertiser.

    Advertisers may have a referral period anywhere from 0 days to 120 days. They may also set the number of occurances - or the number of times an action will pay a commission within the referal period. They may pay on the first occurance, all occurances within the referral period or some fixed number of occurances within the referral period.

    Most advertisers are set to pay on the first occurance within their referral periods. Since this infomration is now easy for publishers to see and advertisers to change (from within the account manager), I am guessing that publishers will request that advertisers pay for additional occurances and advertisers will change their referral periods and occurances.

    I wouldn't start dropping advertisers with single occurance referrals until they have had some time to evaluate their programs and make changes based on requests.

    Let's give everyone a change to learn the new features and make some adjustments. Acting rash is not the best way to illicit change.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  2. #2
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    Can you just tell us the new features besides the new one of limiting cookie duration? I see that one but not much else. I notice i have to click a lot more to get to places now.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  3. #3
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    Can you just tell us the new features besides the new one of limiting cookie duration? I see that one but not much else. I notice i have to click a lot more to get to places now.


    Click on CJU and then on the new features for 6.0. Everything should be explained there.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    As you all know, we now make the referral period information available when reviewing program terms for each advertiser.
    This means that all of these advertisers always had it set at "1 occurence" but this knowledge was never available to the publishers? That would mean that any cookie duration at all, even 1 day, was nothing but smoke and mirrors all along.

  5. #5
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    Well, i read that and besides seeing the cookie situation for each merchant and email contact, not much else. Same stuff repackaged differently. Changing the wording from rejected to declined is not an upgrade. More of a degrade than upgrade. Advertisers and Publishers don't like the limits you put on cookies, especially not letting your Advertisers know ahead of time. Can't tell what product links are being cliced. Took away EPC, you might not thought it useful but publishers did but so what right? Now we have to click more to get places, that makes no sense. It's a pain to make links. When i click get links it should go to a page where i can access a merchant easily, but now i gotta click, click, click. Next update do it all the way right and not half ass it. Put the Web Site Performance and drop down menu to merchants back on front page. You have the space, utilize it. Maybe hire a web design team with knowledge of usability.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on April 07, 2003 at 01:52 PM.]

  6. #6
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    Still don't get it.
    100 days or 120 days?
    Todd is saying 120 days, most affiliate managers are saying 100 days.

    So, who's right?

    Regards,

    =xo=

  7. #7
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    i have noticed that when looking for a link, click get links, then click by relationship to view my list, i cannot search by alphabet???? this is a bit annoying when you have 200 merchants!

    It can take ages,

    Can that be put back on?

  8. #8
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    Still don't get it.
    100 days or 120 days?
    Todd is saying 120 days, most affiliate managers are saying 100 days.

    So, who's right?


    Todd is always right.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  9. #9
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    i have noticed that when looking for a link, click get links, then click by relationship to view my list, i cannot search by alphabet???? this is a bit annoying when you have 200 merchants!


    Try typing in the name of the advertiser you are looking for in the search box.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  10. #10
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    How about trying to get a drop down menu to merchants for ease of use? Upgrades are supposed to make things easier not harder.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    Thanks Todd,

    just worked on one of my merchant and didn't have any problem.

    now all I need is my sale to update. lol...

    eiter way you should get my nana's for working hard!

    thanks again and keep up the good work and hopefully we can all get use to the new navigation!

    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

  12. #12
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    This means that all of these advertisers always had it set at "1 occurence" but this knowledge was never available to the publishers? That would mean that any cookie duration at all, even 1 day, was nothing but smoke and mirrors all along.


    Now, you got it.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SSanf:
    quote:
    This means that all of these advertisers always had it set at "1 occurence" but this knowledge was never available to the publishers? That would mean that any cookie duration at all, even 1 day, was nothing but smoke and mirrors all along.


    Now, you got it.

    Additionally, it was NOT a rhetorical question, yet Todd chose to ignore it when replying to other notes in this same thread. I still want to know why it isn't false and misleading to promote (x) cookie length when the "1 occurrence" was lurking in the background unknown to the publisher when evaluating whether to join a merchant - fully 60% of my merchants are set at "1 occurrence" making any cookie length completely moot.

  14. #14
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    Additionally, it was NOT a rhetorical question, yet Todd chose to ignore it when replying to other notes in this same thread. I still want to know why it isn't false and misleading to promote (x) cookie length when the "1 occurrence" was lurking in the background unknown to the publisher when evaluating whether to join a merchant - fully 60% of my merchants are set at "1 occurrence" making any cookie length completely moot.


    I believe that an advertiser intends to pay publishers when they refer sales and/or leads. If publishers continue to refer the same customer over and over (i.e. clicking on your links each time they want to go shopping), then they will pay a commission again and again.

    If, on the other hand, the customer clicks over and buys once and never clicks through the publisher site again, the advertiser feels they have paid for that customer and does not continue to pay commissions.

    Each advertiser can set their referral period and occurance setting in the members area. Previously, it was hard coded in the tracking script. Since this is a setting in the members area, we can now accurately display the settings to publishers.

    Lastly, to directly answer your question whether is is false or misleading to promote a cookie length and not pay on every sale during the period...I would say I don't think it is the case that advertisers were being false or misleading - I just think things were not clearly presented. I think it is partially the publisher's responsibility to ask for more specifics and not assume things and it is partially the advertiser's responsibility to make these terms clear in their programs terms. That is why CJ enabled this data in the members area for all to see and control.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford,
    I think it is partially the publisher's responsibility to ask for more specifics and not assume things and it is partially the advertiser's responsibility to make these terms clear in their programs terms.


    I don't disagree that this is true, it was presumed (incorrectly) that the essential information was included in the CJ interface, precluding a need to converse with each publisher individually prior to joining, as would be the case in an independent program.
    quote:
    That is why CJ enabled this data in the members area for all to see and control.

    I'm glad you did and I'm sure all appreciate that part of the update, I do, however, remain disappointed that such an important piece of information wasn't included previously. Well, I'm going to dump a few of those "1 occurrence" merchants now, but wait and see if many of them will change that to unlimited or some other number as they review the new interface - I'd not even be surprised if some of the AMs don't know it's set that way.

  16. #16
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    Smart move for CJ to expose this descrepancy over cookie duration. That will limit their further exposure to class action lawsuits that have a way of arising over controversial promotions.

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    Smart move for CJ to expose this descrepancy over cookie duration. That will limit their further exposure to class action lawsuits


    Hit the nail right on the head!
    I believe that is what this so called upgrade which everyone can plainly see is not an upgrade is all about. They are apparently running so scared on this that they didn't even take time to make the site look descent.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on April 07, 2003 at 03:37 PM.]

  18. #18
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    >How about trying to get a drop down menu to merchants for ease of use?

    The problem with dropdown boxes is that if you have 500 merchants, every page with a dropdown box has to list the lot inthe HTML form code, and that adds up to HUGE pages. Yuck.

    Jimmy James fan club membership # 3312

  19. #19
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    It adds up to ease of use.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  20. #20
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    Maybe it's just me, but I never really expected, or counted on recieving commissions over and over again from the same person/cookie.



    I did, however, expect to get a commission the following day, week, or however long the cookie duration may have been "If" the same visitor happened to buy , and "If" , after all that time elapsed, I was lucky enough to keep my cookie on their machine , un-overwritten by someone elses cookie , or un-deleted by the user .

    I'm happy with ANY sale , and anxiously waiting new shoppers to pass through my site .
    I'm not thinking about what they might buy next week or next month, that sale is history as far as I'm concerned.

    It would be NICE if they kept the cookie after the first sale, but I honestly don't even think it's realistic to expect it across the board .

    I don't feel that I was decieved in the way many of you are saying.

    If you think about it , and think outside of your greedy minds for a second ...

    ( And I mean that jokingly - HONEST )


    IF a cookie duration is 100 days , and your visitor clicks through your site and grabs a cookie , leaves and doesn't buy a thing , then 99 days later, your visitor goes directly to the merchants site and makes a purchase , and you get the sale , you got your 100 day cookie as promised. Agreement is now complete .

    As luck might even have it, they may buy a heck of a lot more than you were trying to sell them in the first place .

    And, if it took 20 days to get that sale.. Oh well, time to get that person, or someone else back to your site to pickup some more "fresh" cookies .

    I don't know ... next thing ya know, you guys will be asking for vacation pay

  21. #21
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    quote:
    next thing ya know, you guys will be asking for vacation pay


    One of the great things about this biz is that as long as everything stays up and running we already DO keep getting paid during a vacation--so there's no need to ask!

    -I've been a king, and I've been a pauper, and everything there is in between ~fairly old country song

  22. #22
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    you got your 100 day cookie as promised. Agreement is now complete .


    But, if the merchant deletes the cookie after the first sale, you don't get the sale commission on day 99. They have not honored the 100 day cookie. If they do it without telling you that this is the way they operate, they have been deceptive and deliberately mislead you. In fact, in my opinion, this has been fraud since merchants knew you entered the contract believing that the cookie would remain on the users computer unless overwritten by another affiliate.

    CJ has allowed them to do this and CJ was well aware that affiliates were for the most part ignorant of the fact that the cookies were being deleted by the merchants. In fact, CJ set it up so keep=no was the default setting. They have tried to justify their actions by saying that merchants would be forced to lower commissions if they had to honor the purported cookie duration. Therefore, they KNEW we were losing money when, unknown to us, the cookies were being deleted.

    The truth is if merchants actually pay on the implied contract of a certain commission rate and cookie length, they may find CJ's program too expensive and either go in house so they can fairly pay the represented amount or to another network. That is CJ's real concern, not that they will lower our commissions which must be competitive or we won't sell their products.

    CJ was well aware that affiliates were being mislead as to the value of the cookie length and they went along with it until it became public knowledge. This is dishonorable.

    quote:
    I think it is partially the publisher's responsibility to ask for more specifics


    Who do you think you are fooling? Yeah right, we were supposed to write each advertiser and ask "By a 45 day cookie duration, do you mean a 45 day cookie duration, really truly?"


    Well, excuse me if I just didn't think of that one.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on April 07, 2003 at 06:53 PM.]

  23. #23
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    Affiliates are getting nickled and dimed right out of business. Maybe we only loose 1% of our revenue on aborted cookies. Maybe we only loose 5% on merchant mishandling of reversals. Maybe we only loose 2% on short cookies. Maybe we only loose 5% from parasites. Maybe we only loose 5% from sloppy reporting and reporting errors and glitches. Etc., etc. Pretty soon, it ads up to a big chunk of revenues.

    Pretty soon, affiliates hang it up and let the parasites fight over the carcasses of merchants that couldn't resist sucking one more nickle out of the hard working affiliates' earnings.

    A year ago, I had about a dozen merchants that were worth promoting. Today, the number is down to only about four, despite trying a lot of new merchants to make up for the winners turned losers. It's the nickles and dimes that often make the difference between winners and losers. So go figure.

  24. #24
    Schlaumeier cumbrowski's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    quote:
    Still don't get it.
    100 days or 120 days?
    Todd is saying 120 days, most affiliate managers are saying 100 days.

    So, who's right?


    Todd is always right.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction


    Nope... Programs with over 120 Days cookie duration got set to 100 Days. Also Tiers (Bonuses) "got lost".

    Look into the Merchant Forums here and the Millions of Emails sent by Advertisers to their Publishers .

    Seems more like a glitch during the "upgrade".

    To the gone chargeback stats. I don't know if it is just us, but the number of chargebacks increased quite a bit since the announcement, that they are not shown to the publisher anymore.

    Who cares, the statistic was completely wrong for non-batch merchants anyway .

    Carsten

    Shop-Links.net Partner
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    If you can't move things, try harder!

  25. #25
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    Assuming many merchants know about margins and such, many places(myself included off line) have built into prices the cost of sales reps commissions in our offline products. Again assuming just because this is online the same amounts of commissions would be built into their prices for products we try to sell for them.
    As in the real world these prices stay the same so a rep(affiliate)in most instances reaps the commissions on all sales not just on the first sale.
    Something of a similar nature should be used here where we get all commissions based on their total cookie length.
    Lead commissions may be different because of trying to drive people to become new customers where a one time lead commission is paid out since while we get them a new customer it may only entail signing up for info, e mails, whatever. A one time true cost of customer aquisition since no money is initially paid to the lead company, only their assumption their new lead we generated may in effect actually buy somethng from them later on.
    Not the case for generating sales where anyone with even limited skills still knows your costs, and your longevity to be able stay in business, are built into the products over a long term basis, not based on each individual sale. Even if they sell one product at a loss their margins most certainly make up for it on other products. So this one time transaction that may be sold as a loss leader, leaves us holding the bag, effecting our ability to stay in business also. While structured somewhat different some of these sales merchants allowing one transaction are using us as a very cheap way of customer acquistion such as a lead company does only MUCH cheaper in some instances.
    Looked at one sale today for a merchant, a lousy 5.98 sale, generating a measly .45 commission. They only have a one time occurance. Sure wish I had a new customer acquisition costs that ever came so cheap.
    Will someone please explain why we wouldn't be upset on who gets the shaft with this type of scenario.




    WW

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