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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    FYI - in less than two weeks CJ will be removing chargeback from the open marketplace stats.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  2. #2
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    You mean the chargeback percent stat at the bottom of each merchants description page? What information in the new interface will they give us to make up for such a valuable stat?

    Stallion Shoppe
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  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Ojmoo wrote:
    quote:
    What information in the new interface will they give us to make up for such a valuable stat?



    Why nothing, of course.

    It's just like the individual product links, that each had their own stats at one time. Now all lumped together under "Product Catalog 1", it's become a totally useless statistic, as you can't tell which products are actually selling.

    If CJ truly does dump the chargeback info, it's only to hide their unethical and cheating advertisers from publishers. But since these advertisers have to pay CJ to stay in the network, CJ doesn't care if they perform or not.

    Spend some time looking at some of the advertisers in the network. EPC's of .07, and chargebacks of 70%. They want to hide that information from you so you'll run ads for that advertiser on your site.

    Andy

    AFFILIATE MARKETING STANDARD: The site upon which the initial action to buy occurs is the site the commission is paid to. Period.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador ToughTurkey's Avatar
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    Where did you get this info? Is it a credible source?

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Yes, where did this info come from?

    I agree on the individual product tracking. That "Product Catalog I" stuff is useless.


  6. #6
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    Straight from CJ...

    quote:
    It is true that the chargeback percentage as a separate stat will be ending in the new version of our service. The 3 month EPC reflects chargeback percentage, conversion rate, and numerous other factors in what we feel is the most meaningful fashion.


    BTW, that was a reply to an inquiry about it.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    And how, pray tell, does the EPC tell us the chargeback percentage??? EPC, as I understand it, is a reflection of the sales per visits ratio.

    Abigail

  8. #8
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    So much for the Open Marketplace, eh? Next time they'll hide the EPC too I guess.

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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SSanf:
    FYI - in less than two weeks CJ will be removing chargeback from the open marketplace stats.
    Feels like a runaway train straight to: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/B000059T00

  10. #10
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    I'm amazed that CJ is removing information that is so critical to affiliates. I manage several affiliate programs through CJ but additionally I am an affiliate so I can really see how this could affect affiliate's ability to make wise decisions.

    I have a new client that I am working with who gets 1 million page views a day. I am going to be setting up and managing numerous affiliate programs to monetize his site. I was counting on the charge-back reporting to better enable me to pick good honest paying Merchants. I don't see how EPC will be able to tell us the true story of a Merchants charge-back rate. This is a Baaaaaaddddd move!


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  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    Happy to see zzounds affil program back up again.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
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  12. #12
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    It doesn't matter all that much, imho. That stat is BS, because Chapters.ca was reversing 50% of my sales last month, and their NEW chargeback rate is LOWER than it was when I joined? No, I don't think so. (Their excuse was cancelled and unshippable items, not fraud)

    cheers.

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    My 2 cents-

    This is a definite DISservice to those merchants who hardly ever reverse. Many times I've gone ahead and picked a merchant because I can see that, once I make a sale, it will STAY SOLD! A 0% Chargeback Rate is like gold. (While it's true that some batching merchants "scrub" their batches of reversals (thereby getting a 0% chargeback), there are some NON-batchers that also have a 0% chargeback and in these cases that stat is one of the best ads they can have for their program!)

    On the other hand, if a place reverses 50% I really couldn't care less what their EPC is because it would drive me bananas to see all those reversals in my account. Eventually the irritation would get to me and I'd hit Drop Program. I see no benefit in finding this out for myself...if a place is sooo desperate that the delay of a couple of months is all *that* important to them, they're ready to die anyway.

    I've found that while the network chargeback rate does not *always* match my own experience, it runs pretty close--especially for the extremes of the scale.

    Also it was telling to watch the reversal rate PLUNGE after it started being made public. Those merchants whose rev-rates dropped so quickly, will also have it SKYROCKETING again the second that stat disappears!

    CJ may have already made its decision on this, but that doesn't stop this development from being blighted!

    -I've been a king, and I've been a pauper, and everything there is in between ~fairly old country song

  14. #14
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    lame.

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    Where did you get this info? Is it a credible source?


    Todd Crawford, CJ.com
    said so on another board.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    The CJ back percent is a widely misunderstood metric, that is probably why they are removing it.

    It has nothing to do with the number of sales reversed bu the % of sales vol. reversed. Thus it is greatly impacted by duplicates, fraud, etc and often can be badly skewed and it heavily favors merchants who use batch transaction techniques.

    EPC *does* reflect charge-backs because overall EPC is lower. (And even EPC is not perfect).


    -wayne

    Wayne Porter
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  17. #17
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    snicker

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Simply from a pragmatic view, I would expect CJ to supply its affiliates with as much information as possible. In the long run, that benefits everybody. Of course, if I'm reading between the lines properly, it sounds like some merchants may not want so many details revealed (especially when you connect this with the elimination of individual item reporting).

  19. #19
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    CJ makes a move that carries more clear stats for affiliates that do not uderstand the stats, but it is bad for the big affiliates with the big volume, who usually know more than the most part of CJ staff.

    Fer

  20. #20
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    CJ will remove the % chargeback? This is a very valuable metric, and especially the trend graphs associated with it.

    Nothing generates more ill will and mistrust than excessive chargebacks. Nothing fouls up the reporting stats more than excessive chargebacks. I prefer not to sign up or work with merchants that can't manage their chargebacks reasonably, even if their EPC is high. Why would CJ want to hide the chargebacks from the publishers and let them find out the hard way???

    All I can say is BOOOOOOOOOO, HiSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Whiznot wrote:
    quote:
    Why would CJ want to hide the chargebacks from the publishers and let them find out the hard way???



    Why indeed...


    Could it be there's something to hide, and CJ's helping them hide it??? Too many useful tools for publishers have been removed lately.

    Something is fowl!

    Andy

    AFFILIATE MARKETING STANDARD: The site upon which the initial action to buy occurs is the site the commission is paid to. Period.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador CrazyGuy's Avatar
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    Before we get carried away ...

    The reason Todd gave for removing this data is that it's garbage.

    There's no point in basing anything on bad data.

    Are you Crazy?

  23. #23
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    Its garbage, you mean they can't divide the products sold by the chargebacks and multiply that number by 100 to get a per centage? Seems like an easy stat to maintain.

    Mike
    Stallion Shoppe
    Horse gifts and collectibles

  24. #24
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    Wayne Porter- AffTrack ,

    FYI - The current charge back % does not reflect any fraud. It is only true sales that are reversed.

    The problem is that advertisers are moving to batch submissions to avoid having the chargeback blight. The whole thing is leading to more advertiser fraud than when it is not shown.

    In any case, we will be able to calculate our own charge back rate from our own performance.

    Guess thats how its gonna be.

  25. #25
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Since some advertisers batch - and hence have no chargebacks because they only report valid txns, it isn't a consistant data point for publishers to reference when comparing programs. Also, if a fraudulant txn for $X,000 is tracked and the advertiser corrects it without going through network compliance, it counts against their chargeback percentage. So this unfairly shows a higher than normal chargeback percentage.

    Publishers will still be able to determine their own chargeback rates by comparing corrections to total txns.

    Please don't complain about this. It really doesn't make sense to publish this data. And no, there is no conspiracy behind this decision. 3 month EPC still shows the overall earnings per 100 clicks and factors in corrections. So if a program has a high reversal rate or batches a low number of valid txns, the EPC will reflect it.

    We want to provide our members with accurate, reliable data. After researching the chargeback data accross the network, we felt it was not accurate nor reliable enough to continue to publisher.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

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