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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    ha ha, this is the email i ahd from cwd kids

    It has come to our attention that some of our affiliates are using their affiliate links in pay per click search sites such as Google and Overture to direct people to the CWDkids.com site. As a company, we have put in place a policy against such behavior.

    This email serves as notification of our new policy. If we find any affiliate bidding on search terms in order to send traffic directly to our site through an affiliate link, we will drop that affiliate immediately.

    In addition, we are also aware that affiliates use the pay per click engines to direct traffic to their own websites. We do not want to be competing with our affiliates over the same keywords. Therefore, we ask that you stop bidding on any of the search terms listed at the bottom of this page on Google and Overture. Affiliates who continue to bid on these specific terms will also be dropped from our program.

    We are also going to begin monitoring sites that overwrite other affiliate links in return for their own affiliate commissions (also known as “parasiteware”). This, along with the display of competitor ads or links while a user is viewing the cwdkids.com web site is in strict violation of the CWDkids.com Affiliate policy, and we reserve the right to discontinue the relationship of any affiliate that does so. These changes are being made in order to build the trust of our many affiliates who are not doing such things, and we hope we can continue this relationship with all of you.

    We expect all of these changes to be made by Friday April 18, 2003. Any affiliate who has not made the adjustments outlined above will be dropped as a CWDkids.com affiliate. If this notice does not regard your website, please disregard this message.


    List of Banned Search Terms
    Children’s Wear Digest
    Childrens Wear Digest
    Child Wear Digest
    CWD
    CWD catalog
    CWD child clothing
    CWD kid
    CWD kids
    CWD kid child clothing
    CWD kids.com
    Cwdkids
    Boy cargo short
    Child clothing
    Child clothes
    Child clothing boutique
    Child clothing catalog
    Child clothing company
    Child clothing store
    Child holiday clothing
    Child matching clothing
    Cotton child clothing
    Easter kid clothing
    Flap happy
    Flapdoodles
    Girl swimsuit toddler
    Hartstrings
    Kid camouflage clothing
    Kid clothes
    Kid clothing
    Kid clothing store
    Kid pajamas
    Kid swimsuit
    Kid wetsuits
    Lilly Pulitzer kid
    Matching outfit
    Mis tee v us
    Mother daughter clothing
    Mulberribush
    Name brand kid clothing
    Online child clothing store
    Patriotic kid clothing
    Saras prints
    So fun
    Swimsuit girl
    Toddler swimsuit
    Unique child clothing


    how can they tell you not to bid on kids clothing? its not patented is it??

    i have not had a sale from them in months anyway,

    not that i have ever used ppc,

  2. #2
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Tamalyn:
    how can they tell you not to bid on kids clothing? its not patented is it??


    So true! It's totally within their right to ask you not to bid on trademarked names ("Children’s Wear Digest", etc.), but to expand that list to generic terms such as "kid clothes" and "matching outfit" is absurd. Some people just don't have a clue.

    Michael

  3. #3
    "An Englishman In New York" TJ's Avatar
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    Clearly you should target those terms with your "other" kids clothing merchant!

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    quote:
    We are also going to begin monitoring sites that overwrite other affiliate links in return for their own affiliate commissions (also known as “parasiteware”).


    GOOD!

    quote:
    It has come to our attention that some of our affiliates are using their affiliate links in pay per click search sites such as Google and Overture to direct people to the CWDkids.com site. As a company, we have put in place a policy against such behavior,


    REASONABLE!

    quote:
    In addition, we are also aware that affiliates use the pay per click engines to direct traffic to their own websites. We do not want to be competing with our affiliates over the same keywords.


    BAD!

    quote:
    List of Banned Search Terms
    Boy cargo short
    Child clothing
    Child clothes
    Child clothing boutique
    Child clothing catalog
    Child clothing company
    Child clothing store
    Child holiday clothing
    Child matching clothing
    Cotton child clothing
    Easter kid clothing
    Flap happy
    Flapdoodles
    Girl swimsuit toddler
    Hartstrings
    Kid camouflage clothing
    Kid clothes
    Kid clothing
    Kid clothing store
    Kid pajamas
    Kid swimsuit
    Kid wetsuits
    Lilly Pulitzer kid
    Matching outfit
    Mis tee v us
    Mother daughter clothing
    Name brand kid clothing
    Online child clothing store
    Patriotic kid clothing
    So fun
    Swimsuit girl
    Toddler swimsuit
    Unique child clothing


    UGLY!

  5. #5
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Tj©:
    Clearly you should target those terms with your "other" kids clothing merchant!


    What would really be a kick would be to use the term "Children’s Wear Digest" to target your other children's clothing sites. That'll show 'em!

    Michael

  6. #6
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Wow...

    I'm going to start an "Affiliate Manager Training & Consulting" business...do you think it will prosper?

    Trademark is one thing, generic terms? IMO, they are killing the affiliate program by enforcing this...

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com
    ICQ: 175010
    AIM: miamitigercub

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Charge them Andy as obviously they are so interested in advertising they forgot to focus on sales. Amazing a lot of these notices come from AM's who support BHO parasites and the PPCSE's who feed search/shopping bars -Gator -WhenuU and the incent popup alert parasites who even monitize those same keywords from non-commissionable links.

    Heck ..Overture -Looksmart and Findwhat drains his keyword account with their parasitic alliances. I like TigerDirect no non-sense approach. Tear up the commission checks where the affiliate doesn't originate the referral process from their own registered domain.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
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    Wait! Wouldn't it be nice to be able to stop your competitors from advertising. I'd like to be able to do that!

    So they treat their affiliates as if they were competitors. Thanks for the info. There are other companies that know better.

    Ray

    If it's slick, it's not sticky.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    Ummmmm ... CWDkids.com ,

    I seriously doubt they hold trademark to that lengthy list of keywords. If they do ... then they got massive millions of dollars worth of compensation coming to them from the huge list of offenders and lawsuits available to them from internet competitors. They don't need an affiliate program if they collect from them.

    Ray Thomas
    DesignerWiz.com CEO
    Development Resource & Javascript Public Archive Center
    http://DesignerWiz.com

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    DROP THEM!!!

    They don't deserve your targeted traffic. They don't want you to bid on generic terms because they really don't want to pay out any commissions.

    Find a competitor that knows how to convert, and one that doesn't mind affiliates driving traffic to their site with generic keywords.

    Really, this is just ridiculous!

    Andy

    MERCHANTS! Ask yourselves: "What's in my affiliate program that makes it worthwhile to publishers?" Hint: if you have one day cookies, or if the cookie is deleted after the first sale, or if you reverse legitimate transactions, you have nothing to offer.

  11. #11
    Full Member Jungleland's Avatar
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    I emailed CWDKids for clarification. I have no problem with either trademarked terms issue or the affiliate links issue, but to tell me what generic terms I can advertise is just plain wrong on their part.

    Basically, it's their last and only chance to back off an unreasonable request such as this - before I drop them.

    "Don't let yesterday take up to much of today."

  12. #12
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    Overture bids for $0.01 - to dream. It used to be that way a long, long time ago...

    With all the competition they probably went into shock when they saw the current bids for productive keywords and figure it will lower their monthly Overture bill.

    Bidding on a merchants site name should be taboo, but everything else should be fair game.

    Scott Marino
    WebUndies.com

  13. #13
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    Hey they are certainly within their right to choose to not partner with a site doing this. Just like any merchant can reject your site for having the wrong kind of content or simply because its ugly.

    Of course you're also certainly free to send the traffic to any other merchant (that allows it).


    I don't see the big deal. Just drop/replace if this was part of your model.

    ----
    -J
    The neighbors complain about the noises above ... But she only comes when she's on top.

  14. #14
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    Personally, I think what this affiliate is trying to do is legitimate. My guess is that the AM is trying to separate advertising from affiliate marketing. For the most part, bidding on keywords that go straight to the merchant is an advertising numbers games.

    keyword bidding isn't simply a trademark issue. It is a contractual issue. In this contract, the AM is clearly defining terms of the contract.

    An affiliate who has nothing but links to the merchant and is bidding on keywords is just playing traffic and advertising games. What the AM misses is that there are probably a few sites about baby clothes that aren't just playing traffic games.

    It appears that the AM is willing to toss out a few babies with the bath water.

    I see nothing in the letter that would make me want to drop the merchant on principle. Of course, if I were bidding on keywords, I would face a choice of dropping this merchant or cutting out the bids.

    I don't see this letter as the bumbling of a clueless AM, but as someone who is trying to keep the advertising side and affiliate side of their marketing strategy separate.

  15. #15
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    quote:
    We do not want to be competing with our affiliates over the same keywords.


    My God, this is the most ignorant thing I've heard today!

    Fine, you'll then be keyword competing with ex-affiliates who'll sell children's clothing to your competitors. Get a brain!

    You joined CJ because the search engines weren't doing for ya, right?

    I don't use paid search engine placement myself, but I'm going to dump these people just for making my most ignorant list today.

  16. #16
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    Dumb Merchant. Really Dumb.

    "We do not want to be competing with our affiliates over the same keywords"
    -> They thought their affiliate is their competitor

    "If we find any affiliate bidding on search terms in order to send traffic directly to our site through an affiliate link, we will drop that affiliate immediately."
    -> Come on, it is affiliate who pay of the PPC and they won't lost a sinle cents on it. We never ask you to pay us when we can't generate sales for you.

    Again, Dumb Merchant. Really Dumb.

  17. #17
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    quote:
    I don't see this letter as the bumbling of a clueless AM,

    Well, that list of terms is certainly out of touch with the real world.

    If they're going to have grandiose ideas about controlling generic searches, they should at least have sense enough to ban bidding on searches that people actually use!

    Anyone who has spent much time in WordTracker will recognize immediately that there's something wrong with that list. My guess is that it was lifted from their Overture account, in complete ignorance of how Overture's "match driver" lumps various things together and report them as one - singular/plural, misspellings, punctuation, even different word order.

    It's time for some reality therapy ...

  18. #18
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    This merchant has a major case of the strange.

    Don't trust crazy people. You never know when they might turn on you.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  19. #19
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    Hmmm, let me see. Let us limit our affiliates from bidding on trademark terms (ok, that is their right), and product/category terms as well (Ummm, are they committing suicide here?).

    If I were partnered with them (sorry, i am not) and bidding on product/category terms successfully, I would just do the same thing with another merchant. That way, I can outbid them on the product/category terms AND send the traffic to someone else.

    Can anyone say "BoneHead"? I know you can.

    IamJaloppy

  20. #20
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    quote:
    This email serves as notification of our new policy. If we find any affiliate bidding on search terms in order to send traffic directly to our site through an affiliate link, we will drop that affiliate immediately.



    I am going to get negative feedback on this comment I am sure.

    As I read their statement they are within their rights and this is a good strategy for the merchant, it wasn't communicated clearly.

    If you read the network agreements (and many merchant agreements) the majority of them stipulate that affiliates cannot direct traffic directly from pay-per-placement media buys. Therefore the link must be on the AFFILIATE's website. If the link is merely from the syndicator and straight to the merchant it impacts media analysis, skews numbers and inflates media cost.

    As I read their policy is OK to bid on generic terms-as long as you are not redirecting the terms straight through to the affiliate program tracking links. Fine. Create a landing page for the generic terms and the affiliate is covered from a legal perspective.

    Obviously stopping affiliates from bidding on generic terms is impossible and not the best strategy. If they truly are wanting to make that a blanket policy I would seemly seek out a competitor, but I am not sure that was their intent.

    The merchant has no indigenous right to generic terms, but affiliates must honor the agreements they accepted. These agreements prevent affiliates from placing commissionable links anywhere but their websites. In short anywhere but the properties they own and have legal control over.

    I think the issue here is putting tracking links directly at Overture and Google and not the actual bidding on generic terms. I guess we will see.

    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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  21. #21
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Wayne Porter- AffTrack:
    quote:
    This email serves as notification of our new policy. If we find any affiliate bidding on search terms in order to send traffic directly to our site through an affiliate link, we will drop that affiliate immediately.



    I am going to get negative feedback on this comment I am sure.

    As I read their statement they are within their rights and this is a good strategy for the merchant, it wasn't communicated clearly.

    If you read the network agreements (and many merchant agreements) the majority of them stipulate that affiliates cannot direct traffic directly from pay-per-placement media buys. Therefore the link must be on the AFFILIATE's website. If the link is merely from the syndicator and straight to the merchant it impacts media analysis, skews numbers and inflates media cost.

    As I read their policy is OK to bid on generic terms-as long as you are not redirecting the terms straight through to the affiliate program tracking links. Fine. Create a landing page for the generic terms and the affiliate is covered from a legal perspective.

    Obviously stopping affiliates from bidding on generic terms is impossible and not the best strategy. If they truly are wanting to make that a blanket policy the affiliate's best strategy would be to seek out a competitor.

    The merchant has no indigenous right to generic terms, but affiliates must honor the agreements they accepted. These agreements prevent affiliates from placing commissionable links anywhere but their websites. In short anywhere but the properties they own and have legal control over.

    I think the issue here is putting tracking links directly at Overture and Google and not the actual bidding on generic terms. I guess we will see.

    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com


    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  22. #22
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    quote:

    In addition, we are also aware that affiliates use the pay per click engines to direct traffic to their own websites. We do not want to be competing with our affiliates over the same keywords. Therefore, we ask that you stop bidding on any of the search terms listed at the bottom of this page on Google and Overture. Affiliates who continue to bid on these specific terms will also be dropped from our program.


    I don't think thats what they're saying.. but we'll see.

    quote:
    If the link is merely from the syndicator and straight to the merchant it impacts media analysis, skews numbers and inflates media cost.

    Huh?

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  23. #23
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    quote:
    It has come to our attention that some of our affiliates are using their affiliate links in pay per click search sites such as Google and Overture to direct people to the CWDkids.com site. As a company, we have put in place a policy against such behavior.

    we're being encouraged to direct people to their competitors instead.

  24. #24
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    quote:

    In addition, we are also aware that affiliates use the pay per click engines to direct traffic to their own websites. We do not want to be competing with our affiliates over the same keywords. Therefore, we ask that you stop bidding on any of the search terms listed at the bottom of this page on Google and Overture. Affiliates who continue to bid on these specific terms will also be dropped from our program.



    No, they are specifically saying you can't bid on those terms for a link to your website.

    What's next - that they don't want your site in the Google index.

    Hope those shoes are bullet proof...

  25. #25
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SSanf:
    Don't trust crazy people. You never know when they might turn on you.


    heh heh, yep, beware of crazy people.

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