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  1. #1
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    I know there has been some talk about this already but I'd like to get a topic specifically about this item. Since the new interface at CJ was released traffic, visitors and other stats have been at or above normal levels, however sales have been dismal in comparison. It just seems highly unusual for this to have occured during, or right after, an upgrade at CJ which included cookie issues and other key factors.

    Anyone else see performance drops in sales and/or conversions? For example, Zappos has done absolutely horrible and so has 123inkjets and others, all around every partner is down.

  2. #2
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    Me too. Moving away from CJ more and more.

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  3. #3
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    After the update, sales have been extremely unstable. Most of the days i am having low sales. But 1 or 2 suprise me with high sales. I am trying to diverse into other networks, since cj sales has generally drop after the update. I rather wish they didn't update with the new interface

    "The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it."

  4. #4
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    Yes my sales are lower on same merchant sales(excluding recent additional marketing) but I see this as consistant across all networks and would not characterize it as being contributed solely to the upgrade.

    I do believe that a default occurances of "1" that apparently occured during the upgrade is shamefull and is contributing to lower sales but I also feel there are other "much bigger factors with parasites" overall impacting sales that we don't even have a clue on yet.

    At one point my sales were not very diversified and we worked on and improved that. My traffic continues to rise and I find myself struggling to make what I did on much lower traffic levels when the parasites were in full swing prior to the COC across the board! The squeeze is on big time!

    I'm actually looking to move more into CJ at this time if that tells you anything. I'm getting very tired of push 3% 4% and 5% commission merchants with other networks who partner with parasites and do every thing they can to undermine your sales, have 1 occurance as well (yes the other networks have this as well - but the data remains mostly unpublished).

    The average reward for affiliate sales are so pitifull and the conditions so unjust it's worse than child labor manipulation and getting even worse. Not only do they not pay us squat for what we do - they openly partner with people who steal our sales and usually pay them higher commision rates than they do us - ughhhhhhh!

    I encourage diversification but I don't think that will help your sales rise overall!

  5. #5
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    Our sales have NOT decreased across other networks, especially Linkshare merchants where sales have been increasing overall with only an exception here or there...

  6. #6
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    Well so far sales are up thru all networks, except BeFree. CJ, at this point, looking to be best month ever. Their "upgrade" still sucks.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  7. #7
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    Sales at other networks, Linkshare, BeFree, have remained steady.

    But, CJ sales, are unpredictable. Went a whole week of absolute dismal sales, then, 5/1 hopped right back up. But, it's merchants that hit every now and then having better sales. My two most productive producers from Feb, March, and April (until the 24th) have been down significantly.

    Don't know if it's the interface, the cookies, whatever, something's not quite right in the state of Denmark.

  8. #8
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    Same here . CJ has just about dropped off the map.

    I could type much better if I had knuckles

  9. #9
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    me too unstable after 6.0 !
    i think ebates still overwrite our sites and whenu poison cj's link
    please cj where your commitment to COC

  10. #10
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    My sales have been less than 50% of previous months with my traffic slightly higher. sigh....

    I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go 'round and 'round...John Lennon

  11. #11
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    I do believe that a default occurrences of "1" that apparently occurred during the upgrade is shameful


    I think it is highly probable that this is the number one reason that sales have dropped off. This anti-affiliate move is indeed shameful.

    Face it. CJ thinks we are a dime a dozen and could care less if we make commissionable sales or not. We aren't where their bread is buttered any more. As long as they have warm bodies to sale to merchants, they could care less if they are breathing or not.

    Affiliate productivity isn't what they are selling. They are selling the number of sites they can get a merchant on, and the number of "hits" they can generate not the number of sales. The newbie merchant sees all that and believes it will somehow magickally turn into money. CJ knows it won't but they don't give a tinker's damn as long as the monthly fee is paid. Which it will be until the merchant gives up and is forever turned against doing business on the internet. But, what the heck if the merchant loses a ton of money, so what. A new one is born every minute. CJ purposely did this to lower the costs to merchants and keep them on the hook for that monthly fee as long as they can. We are irrelevant. Our sales are irrelevant. From their perspective, we probably generate enough income to CJ to fill the coffee urn. And, there are always new warm bodies out there. New sites are built by Mom and Pop every day and they all have big dreams of slapping up a banner or two and growing rich.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on May 10, 2003 at 07:31 PM.]

  12. #12
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    I agree with SSanf. CJ is focused on merchants and 'affiliates' like ebates. Affiliates like most of us are expendable. The latest upgrade showed CJ's true feelings of our "value."

    From purely a business perspective I don't understand how CJ can think it's strategy is sound in the long run. Quite a few of the threads in this forum these days are about affiliates frustrated with CJ and testing the waters with other networks. As more and more affiliates do that it will start to have an impact. This will eventually mean less affiliates for CJ and less promotion and sales for CJ merchants (oh yes, and less cookies for CJ's best affiliate ebates to hijack. )

    I'm sure I'm probably missing something - it wouldn't be the first time! - but I just don't understand from a business perspective why they are totally discounting us. It just seems quite strange to have the intermediary and 'trusted third party' totally turn it's back on one of the parties it's supposed to represent/protect/value.

    My sales were down after the new upgrade too. I moved one of my merchants to another program about two weeks or so ago and have gotten more than 7 times the number of sales I had with CJ since the upgrade.

    Kip

    [This message was edited by Kip on May 10, 2003 at 10:46 PM.]

  13. #13
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yes, this is why whenever possible, when there is any other available opportunity, we must all incline toward promoting non-CJ merchants. I understand that we can't do it enmass like a strike. But, if we all start moving from CJ away and promote other programs instead, eventually, they will tumble and either shape up and do right by us or go under. The MOM's and Pops can't carry them very long. When the merchants find they are getting less and less value returned for the money expended, then, CJ will understand how we factor in the relationship. By then, it may just be too late.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  14. #14
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    quote:
    if we all start moving from CJ away and promote other programs instead, eventually, they will tumble and either shape up and do right by us or go under.


    I don't think so. Many people here (and your statement) implies that the parasites can not live without affiliates. I'm seeing this as a complete falacy! Why do parasites need us when they turn sales into commissions even when a person goes straight to a merchants site? The fact is.... they don't need us to propsper at all.

    The facts stand... even with much efforts spent in "merchant awareness" very few and I mean "very few" have converted from a parasitic partnership policy to a non parasitic policy since the coc came about. I saw your other list.... how about giving me a big list of merchants who have changed positions since the coc? ugggh you can't!

    What's sad is that as affiliates do "roll over" and enter other areas, it doesn't mean that parasites become less meaningful to merchants..... It's very likely possible that they actually become more important to them!

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think we may end up mostly representing smaller specialty businesses in highly specific niche markets.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  16. #16
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    I'm not really up on parasites because I try to avoid companies that associate with them so I might not be understanding this as fully as I need to, but it seems to me that since the parasites are stealing affiliate traffic that if there is no affiliate traffic for them to steal their value to the merchant is going to dry up pretty quickly. The parasites don't get people to the merchants site, affiliates do.

    Kip

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    When we no longer send traffic to the merchant site, it is the merchant who gets the traffic to their own site. Then, they have to pay the parasites for traffic they would have had anyway. Let them do that for a while and see what happens to the parasites. That is why we should not do any business with merchants affiliated with parasites.

    Come on, there are merchants begging us to represent them. I don't have enough time in the day to make pages for the good, parasite free, merchants. Do you? Don't waste your time on programs where any of your commissions will be stolen.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  18. #18
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    Poon - you speak the sad truth.

    Kip - you dont really understand this. Many Parasites do not work off affiliate traffic , just off the merchants website. For merchants, there is no such thing as free traffic anymore as any that associates with parasites will pay on each and every visit to their website if the user has some parasite application installed.

    It does not matter how a person finds a merchant - through a search engine, through an affiliate site, through a merchant newsletter, through merchants PPC advertising or typing in the URL directly. Some parasites were recently caught overwriting each and every one of these. Affiliates are not part of the equation any more.

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  19. #19
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    That's amazing. You're right. I don't think I understand. I thought it worked differently. If affiliates are out of the equation, can parasites deliver traffic or will they just "charge" the merchant whenever someone who has the software installed visits the merchant's site? If it's the latter, why would a merchant continue to associate with a parasite? What is the merchant getting out of the deal?

    Thanks,
    Kip

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Kip:
    Deleted - sent as PM instead


    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  21. #21
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    Kip
    Sent you a PM. Had posted the answer here, but then thought better of it. Dont want to give merchants ideas.

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  22. #22
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    If affiliates are out of the equation, can parasites deliver traffic or will they just "charge" the merchant whenever someone who has the software installed visits the merchant's site?

    Now you understand.
    quote:
    If it's the latter, why would a merchant continue to associate with a parasite? What is the merchant getting out of the deal?

    Nothing! They're idiots.
    They hire someone to run their program and that person points to the referals (that would have been free) and tells the boss who doesn't know his @ss from a hole in the ground that the parasite got all those sales. The AM then looks good and may even get a raise! The merchant thinks he has a super duper affiliate program and is all happy. It's a big scam. Unfortunately, it's one that is stealing our bread and butter. Parasites are just that, parasites.

    The only ones that could actually deliver traffic are the ones that might follow your link to, say Tiger, and then tell the customer to go to Dell instead. But, they need you to make the site first. That is why we really need to choose non-parasite affiliated merchants.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on May 11, 2003 at 04:40 AM.]

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    SSanf has her wise old Owl working today.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  24. #24
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    From Ssanf
    quote:
    Affiliate productivity isn't what they are selling. They are selling the number of sites they can get a merchant on, and the number of "hits" they can generate not the number of sales. The newbie merchant sees all that and believes it will somehow magickally turn into money.


    Couldn't agree more... I have no confidence in CJ whatsoever even though I am pushing high profile golf related merchants...

    I have another closely but not directly related business model to affiliate programs as comparison. With all the cheating I am closely guarding any healthy revenues streams, so I will leave it at that. I do think that the affiliate concept, more and more is appealing as theory, but pragmatically is slipping away. I still like the idea, I just hope that the dismal trend(s), create a shift in the other direction, whereby either more and more merchants, or a few affiliate networks, understand the importance of attracting the serious/valuable publishers through integrity, credibility, responsible reporting, disclosure, etc...

    Sad situation as I see it...

    Jonathon Palbicke
    Webmaster
    www.krookedstix.com
    Webmaster@krookedstix.com
    Krooked Stix, Inc.
    It's all golf baby!

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