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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    I just got off the phone with Scott Marino, affiliate manager and owner of WebUndies.com

    Webundies.com is kicking me out of their program before I have even had a single sale with them. Why? Because I created a web site to market their products that looks better than their store!

    He also told me on the phone that he would not pay commish on any affilaite sites that compete with him on generic keywords where he currently ranks well. What a bunch of BS!

    He also stated that he monitors search engines and will terminate affiliates that rank better than him in search engines - especially people using the data feed.

    (WHOIS on WEBUNDIES.COM gets his phone number)

    [This message was edited by Haiko on May 04, 2003 at 10:55 PM.]

  2. #2
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Why run a program? Invite him here for an education..

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com
    ICQ: 175010
    AIM: miamitigercub

  3. #3
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    I will. I am just waiting for some good replies.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador BareNecessities's Avatar
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    Michael
    973-621-6211 x 5040
    michael(at)barenecessities.com

  5. #5
    Pimp Duck popdawg's Avatar
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    Whoops,
    I had just applied for their program too.
    I'm curious what happens here.


    edited to add : Lol Michael

    Game on!!!!

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Andy you're right on! It's unbelievable how some people think.

    Akiva Bergstrom
    Business Development
    akiva@essentialapparel.com
    800-556-2937 ext 751
    www.essentialapparel.com
    6% PER SALE ~ 365 DAY COOKIE ~ GREAT CONVERSION ~ LOW REVERSAL RATE

  7. #7
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    *boggle*

    Lets fire the sales team because they do a better job of attracting customers than the marketing team!

    Wierd.

    Mark Mitford
    Sales Director
    Dotster, Inc
    http://www.dotster.com/

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I'm sure Webundies will be very successful with that attitude -- NOT!

    I did get a good laugh at their business plan, though. HA HA!

    Makes you wonder how some people managed to get into the gene pool...

    Andy

    AFFILIATE MARKETING STANDARD: The site upon which the initial action to buy occurs is the site the commission is paid to. Period.

  9. #9
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    And I thought I saw some STUPID termination notices the past 2 weeks - LOL -- I think this one takes the cake. Guess I better delete this merchant before my datafeed site goes up - geesh!

  10. #10
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    Anyone do a google search for webundies? Talk about spamming a search engine. WOW! Guess I will be removing them. Haven't made any money with them yet.

    Gene
    TCS

  11. #11
    Pimp Duck popdawg's Avatar
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    I'M APPROVED!!!!

    ** ahem **

    I am now taking suggestions for a good refusal letter. So far my own messages always seem to include head, insert, and @$$.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks

    Game on!!!!

  12. #12
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    i looked up webundies in google, as some people are taking the mickey!! i cannot believe they are putting webundies i there title, very unethical!! i am not surprised that webundies are getting annoyed, but i think they should be talking to peopl who are obviously spamming!!

  13. #13
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    Here's the other side of the story - from the paying advertiser's point of view.

    We post a data feed to CJ to allow affiliates to generate links to as many appropriate products as necessary. We encourage affiliates to take as many links as needed and integrate them into useful sites that provide real content.

    The original poster of this thread simply registered a name, took a data feed and, created a copy of our content. He took the easy way to try to make a buck rather than creating a useful site. He simply repackaged my original content.

    As an advertiser, we spend thousands monthly on bidding on search engine placement. This is an established traffic stream. We don't need affiliates to make clone stores with our products, we could do that ourselves if we wanted to spam the search engines.

    Why should we pay commissions for someone to create a copycat site? After all, aren't publishers supposed to find new sources of traffic for an advertiser? Affiliate marketing is not about competing with the advertiser, it's about working for the advertiser.

    We have always encouraged the use of our links within meaningful content and never would terminate someone because they had better search engine placement.

    Take a look at [Removed URL] which is the site we object to and judge for yourself.

    During our conversation Chris repeatedly stated "Making sites like this is the future of affiliate marketing". If all we need as affiliate managers is clone sites, we will make them ourselves and stop paying commissions altogether.

    Scott

    [This message was edited by Scott Marino on January 21, 2003 at 07:25 PM.]

    [This message was edited by Haiko on January 21, 2003 at 08:48 PM.]

  14. #14
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    I checked out the site. Design is different. The thing is he use your data feed and make a site from it, 1 whole site dedicated only to 1 merchant, i.e. your site (that's why he's so mad at you). From what I can see, he's not copying the site. since it's different design.

    Not sure how other affiliate manager's feel?

    Regards,

    =xo=

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Scott first of all, you should not paste the url of any affiliate without the affiliates consent, if he/she wished all ABW to view the url, he/she would have pasted the url in the original post.

    Second of all, the website your affiliate looks great, much better than your own website if I can say so, why would you be offended if he/she only wants to use your datafeed, thats what they are created for in the first place.

    Last but not least, as long as said affiliate generates you sales and earns commission, job done. I'm sure other merchants have already snapped up this affiliate. They win you lose.

    PS : I see theres a 3.40% charge back, what happens to the returned underwear.

    [This message was edited by JJJay on January 21, 2003 at 08:46 PM.]

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    I looked at the site, and Scott Marino is right. It's a replica of their site.

    That's not affiliate marketing and you'll see more managers like him to stand up and protect their assets, as they should.

    Homenethelp.com has twisted the story to make it look sympathetic to us. Not good!

    Data feeds are provided by merchants to make meaningful and relevant arrangements from them and add it your site. Also, you can use them for following:

    > product search
    > price comparison
    > other sorts of comparisons
    > product selections
    > and more.

    No to just buy a domain and put a few colored thables and upload the feed, and done!

    Easy but not what merchants want. Some AMs may want this to increase affiliate driven sales, and also increase their salaries, but Scott is responsible enough to stand up. Kudos...

  17. #17
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    The affiliate site is better!

    Shortsightedness, like expressed by WebUndies, in affiliate marketing will make programs nothing! Let's get on the ball here!

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Haiko, the puke smiley doesn't work uke:

  19. #19
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    Scott is totally wrong. The site in no way replicates his site. It doesn't compete for keywords either. However, Scott, to see of what I speak, do search for webundies on google and observe the Those are the ones you need to deal with in a harsh manner.

    They spammed the heck out of google and you still came up first in SERP plus two sponsered links.

    It doen't look as though you have been fair IMO.

    Gene
    TCS

  20. #20
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    Besides, Scott, you would probably make more money if you did not try to compete with the affiliates. Save the monies you spend bidding for keywords and let the affiliates do the work for you. They can do a better job. You could even pay more commission and they would work harder for you. Your view of marketing on the internet is very shortsighted. Wake up, you can't do it all by yourself. That's why you have an affiliate program in the first place.

  21. #21
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    quote:
    Originally posted by TCS:
    They spammed the heck out of google and you still came up first in SERP plus two sponsered links.


    I come up first because the name of our site is the name we are all searching on. Of course the URL that is an exact match of the search term will come up number one.

    We come up in the sponsor listings twice because of overture. We had to bid on our own site name because some affilaite thought it was a good way to promote thier site by bidding on our site name. Since there are only 2 bidders, me and him, overture fills the 3rd spot by repeating the 1st spot.

    BTW, he is still an active affiliate even though he is bidding against us for our own site name.

  22. #22
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    Your company name is your TRADEMARK and nobody should market with it but you. You should not allow affilaites to buy your trademarks as adwords. You should never have to purchase adwords for the name of your company.

    TigerDirect and many other merchants make this quite clear. It is horrible that you have to pay in adwords and other PPC engines for your web site name and trademarked company name.

    I would NEVER optimize or even mention the end merchants site or trademarks.

    see this message on the TD forum
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=2756084591

  23. #23
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    Some companies had no competition and even that position they created their own competition, why?

    Supose you have a business, then the market for a niche is totally saturated, not a good place for more competition, because there are thousands competing... But all competitors are in the end, generating revenue for the same company, oh that's gooood!

    There is a lot economical theory about this issue, Haiko, could you get an economist to the forum to explain basic theory in cases like this?

    Fer

  24. #24
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    Scott,

    It is not my intention to be antagonistic. The point is that searching for webundies brought up a number of site URLs that are using webundies for keywords and place high in the SERPs. Are you doing anything about them? Just because you appear first in SERP does not mean that a shopper will click on your URL. And even if they do, they still might move on down the list before deciding to make a buy.

    That happens to us all the time. I have had vistors to my sites when I was as far down as 394 on a particular search engine. There were many affiliates above me. Of course there were many, many returns that definitely were not relavent to what the shopper was looking for. I had one click through and one sale that day on the products searched for by this shopper. Whether or not that particular shopper is the one that made the purchase, I don't really know.

    All I am really trying to say is that being first in SERP doesn't mean you will get the sale.

    Gene
    TCS

  25. #25
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    Honestly, the keyword webundies is insignificant to us since we are not a household name. While all the use of it by various sites is a concern, it does not amount to much traffic overall.

    We have other keywords and phrases that are much more productive. The site that started this thread has a more direct focus on the productive keywords, hence the reason for our initial concern.

    We work hard to get listed and want to protect our territory in the search engines under a category of boxer shorts, underwear, etc.

    We love it when someone chooses one of the characters, builds a site around that character, and adds affiliate links (from us and others). When they get listed in the search engines with all the relevent phrases, keywords, etc., it drives new traffic our way, traffic we would not ordinarily get. That is what we are looking for from our affiliates.

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