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  1. #1
    Merchant Linda's Avatar
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    Our support question/complaint to CJ -

    So far for the month, your spider has eaten 7.43 MB in bandwidth (250 pages) on my blahblah.com site that only has 16 pages on the entire site.

    Why are you using so much of my bandwidth and who do I send the bill for overage in bandwidth to at CJ? No other spider is pulling that much and I get zero benefit from CJ spidering.
    -------------

    1st response from CJ -

    That doesn't sound right. The spider coders are looking at your specific situation and we will let you know what they find. Sorry about that. We'll get back to you ASAP.
    --------------

    2nd response from CJ after the "spider coders" looked at it -

    OK, even though they resolve to 16 pages of content, there are 32 unique addresses on the site. 7.43MB/250 pages = .0298 MB/page. Each spider "hit" to your site would then be .9536 MB of bandwidth; or 8 times in 24 days, or once every three days. What percentage of your traffic is this? I hope it's not too much. How much bandwidth does the second highest spider need?

    The benefit to you is our excellent advertiser list who can make you money! I hope this becomes a more compelling benefit as time goes on.
    -------------

    All I can say, is that if this keeps up and this beauty of a spider eats up .9536 MB of bandwidth each time it visits, we'll have to close the site up because it'll be costing us more to keep it up than we make in commissions.

    Oh, I forgot about the benefits! We get an "excellent advertiser list who can make you money"!

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    Obviously you need to block the spider.

    I still dont see where dividing by 250 is applicable with 16 pages (what did I miss?) and even at that supposidly it only crawls pages that have had sales on them in the last x days (I forget how many) "according to a post by Todd".

    Of course the whole post by Todd concerning the Spider was very wishy washy at best which does not instill my trust of whats it's doing, who is using it (CJ themselves or are they farming it out to individual merchants to use how they like), or what purpose it's "really serving".

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    quote:
    The benefit to you is our excellent advertiser list who can make you money! I hope this becomes a more compelling benefit as time goes on.


    PROVIDED CJ'S *STAR* AFFILIATE, EBATES, DOESN'T GRAB HOLD OF ALL YOUR CLICKS!

    Andy

    What CJ really needs to do is send the spider out looking for dead merchant links, and problems with merchant sites!

    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
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    Anyone have any repercussions from CJ for blocking their abusive spider?

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Since the good reporting CJ had in the past that included information beyond product catalog 1 took up so much expensive bandwidth I wonder how it is a spider on the rampage takes up so much less.

  6. #6
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    All I can say, is that if this keeps up and this beauty of a spider eats up .9536 MB of bandwidth each time it visits, we'll have to close the site up because it'll be costing us more to keep it up than we make in commissions.

    No offense but if 10 MB of bandwidth per month will put you out of business then I don't think you are really "in business". I use this much bandwidth a day in email.

    Who do you use for hosting? Check out Rackspace, they charge $250 per month for 30 GB, including hardware.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Your understanding of the plight of affiliates is amazing, simply amazing.

    Why should anyone pay one darned red cent for that stupid spider? If it is so piddly, then you find a way to keep track of it and reimburse us the money. You have so much and are such big shots with all your very important e-mail, it should be no problem. YOU PAY THE BILL!


    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  8. #8
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    Yeah. 10mb is nothing.

    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    Who do you use for hosting? Check out Rackspace, they charge $250 per month for 30 GB, including hardware.


    Do you have an affiliate link Todd?

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    Todd, Obviously you don't understand. What happens if that puts us OVER??? Like every other webhosts, they charge in 1 gig increments.

    It doesn't matter what host we have, how much bandwidth we have, the fact is, you used up 10 meg of bandwidth on a 16 page site in less than 1 months time. This is rediculously high for a small site for a spider that isn't going to bring me 1 single dime.

    Thanks for costs me money and not making me money Todd.

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Art.com, Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, if it is nothing, then surely CJ won't mind enclosing a payment for what they have used with our checks.

    cditty
    If you go over, send CJ a bill.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  11. #11
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    quote:
    No offense but if 10 MB of bandwidth per month will put you out of business then I don't think you are really "in business". I use this much bandwidth a day in email.



    I think that is an offensive and insensitive comment to make to Linda. Not to mention unprofessional. Shame, shame, shame on you. Maybe you should go have a glass of wine and chill out a bit before you make any more replies on the board.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  12. #12
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    I did the math in case anyone wants to know the costs we are talking about (correct me if I am wrong).

    30 GB equals 30,000 MB
    30,000 MB / 10 MB = 3,000
    $250 / 3,000 = $0.0083 (less than one cent)

    CJ is not trying to cost anyone any money or put anyone out of business but bandwidth is cheap enough that the cost of being spidered is negligible.

    I am trying to point out that if 10 MB is so expensive that it would not offset the commissions one earns in a month, then they probably aren't in the right line of business or are paying way too much for bandwidth.

    My comments are not directed at Linda. I am making a general statement that is based on facts. If your bandwidth costs more than you make from your website traffic, then your business is not booming. 10 MB should not be the factor that puts this business model upside down.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
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    Nothing like CJ arrogance

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    I did the math too Todd. Overages at Rackspace cost me about $4.95 in 1 gig increments. If you cause me to go over, you cost me $4.95.

    Simple enough?

    I still want to know what benifit I get out of the spider.

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Art.com, Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Yes, let's be a little more considerate about new affiliates. Everyone of us started at the bottom at one time or another, scraping enough money together to pay our hosting or add just one more domain. It may not sound like much bandwidth to the head hanchos at CJ, but to those starting off it is something to worry about.

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing
    Every day is a chance to learn something new and an opportunity to teach others.

  16. #16
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Well, if we look at it from a business model perspective and as you suggest

    quote:
    Check out Rackspace, they charge $250 per month for 30 GB, including hardware.



    Ok...30GB of space @ #250/month...for a 16 page site. LOL. Bet you can see where I'm going with this one. I think that would be a much worse business decision and model.

    Linda, I guess another option would be to use merchant's not in the CJ network on that site and then the spider has no reason whatsoever for being on your site.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yeah but, I know someone who QUIT CJ and they STILL spider her site!

    Gave her a darned hard time about quiting, too. Said they couldn't close her account because there might be residual income from cached pages and so forth. When she insisted, they closed her account but didn't send her the money, so far. Now, she can't even check to see what they are reversing. Not so easy to quit CJ and keep them from spidering your site, that way.

    So, if they hold her money long enough, they could eat it up in $10 increments for not sending them any traffic for 6 months! LOL

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on May 30, 2003 at 09:33 PM.]

  18. #18
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    I am slowly but surely "veering" away from CJ, what I don't understand (if anyone else has noticed) when the the spider crawls your site, all CJ banners DO NOT show up, right now as we speak, on my Women's Clothing Page I am only using 4 merchants with CJ and for about 20 minutes now they have been not showing up, this goes on day-in and day-out, all day. In fact, on my second site I am partnered with Vanns Electronics, my clickthroughs went from 20 to 25 a day to ZERO a day, for the fact that when the banners do not load my visitors can't tell what merchant is what. For the last two weeks my sales have SUCKED BIG TIME. Todd can you explain why the banners do this all day? Is it because of the spidering?

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Todd,

    What negative ramifications are there for affiliates, if we block your spider?

    Fred

    "Zymurgy's Law of Volunteer Labor: People are always available for work in the past tense."

  20. #20
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Apparently, you can't block it because, if I understand it right, they change the spider's name before sending it out. That way, instructions on your site to block it are out of date.

    It appears that if you have or even HAD CJ merchants, they are going to do what they want to you. In other arenas, they hang those who act that way.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, No offense but if 10 MB of bandwidth per month will put you out of business then I don't think you are really "in business". I use this much bandwidth a day in email.

    With all due respect Todd, if the spider really uses 10Meg per 16 pages as is stated here then it's going to suck down 625 for a 1000 page site and that certainly has the potential to push a lot of people into the next tier at their respective hosts.

    Perhaps if there were some logically explained benefit of this spider to the affiliates it would go a long way to dousing the flames.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
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    I'm getting ready to put up a new 1000+ page site sourced by a data feed that's gonna kick butt.

    No offense to CJ, but it won't have that rogue spider sucking up bandwidth and distorting my log stats and invading my site design privacy because there won't be any CJ links on it.

    Now maybe if CJ would really come clean and tell us the true value (that means no smoke and mirrors) of having their bot beat on our sites, maybe we would feel better about it.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    Oh, and Todd, I won't be a smarty and tell you to go back and check your math, lol, but I will say your attitude is kind of like saying "oh, what's a few more spam emails when you already get two hundred a day?".

  24. #24
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    I will have to side with Todd on this one. Anyone who is worried about 10mb of bandwidth needs to review what they are doing... 10mb isn't much of anything.

    BTW- Rackspace.com will give you a much better deal than that if you talk to them. I've got 40gb of bandwidth for much less than you posted. And yes, I have an affiliate link.

    For what it's worth I hate the fact that CJ has a bot. Why can't you spend your time monitoring people who STEAL OUR COMMISSIONS!!!! The fact that you look the other way on this is rediculous.

    Core

    "So it's a profit thing..." - Steve Martin

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador
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    After going through 200 e-mails to sort out the spam, I go check my logs files. Here's an example of what I get (and no offense if the ABW moderators take this out, because I do understand the value of bandwidth and apologize for sucking it up to make my point).

    I arrest my case, Todd!


    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:16:57:29 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.1" 200 667 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"

    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:01:26 -0400] "GET /St.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5133 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:01:29 -0400] "GET /directory.htm HTTP/1.1" 200 34425 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:01:39 -0400] "GET /Oi.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4408 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:01:52 -0400] "GET /Sc.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5055 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:01 -0400] "GET /Ho.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4851 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:15 -0400] "GET /Fa.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4655 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:16 -0400] "GET /Je.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5246 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:19 -0400] "GET /Di.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4558 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:19 -0400] "GET /Ex.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4479 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:23 -0400] "GET /Al.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4648 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:35 -0400] "GET /De.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4745 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:35 -0400] "GET /Sp.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4856 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:02:45 -0400] "GET /Au.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5034 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:03:03 -0400] "GET /Ho.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4682 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:03:18 -0400] "GET /Sc.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4724 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:03:19 -0400] "GET /Da.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4992 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:03:23 -0400] "GET /En.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4645 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:04:04 -0400] "GET /Fl.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4734 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:04:15 -0400] "GET /Mo.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4535 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:04:18 -0400] "GET /Co.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4913 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    ool-18bc5017.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:04:35 -0400] "GET /El.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5220 "http://search.msn.com/results.asp?RS=CHECKED&FORM=MSNH&v=1&q=fo" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)"
    ool-18bc5017.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:04:36 -0400] "GET /_themes/topo/toptxtr.jpg HTTP/1.1" 200 3496 "http://www.a.com/El.html" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)"
    ool-18bc5017.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:04:36 -0400] "GET /jsfiles/jimg.js HTTP/1.1" 200 267 "http://www.a.com/El.html" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)"
    ool-18bc5017.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:04:36 -0400] "GET /images/au.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 7841 "http://www.a.com/El.html" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)"
    ool-18bc5017.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:04:36 -0400] "GET /jsfiles/jtext.js HTTP/1.1" 200 255 "http://www.a.com/El.html" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:04:44 -0400] "GET /St.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4622 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:04:45 -0400] "GET /Sl.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4788 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    ool-18bc5017.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:04:47 -0400] "GET /Fo.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4692 "http://search.msn.com/results.asp?RS=CHECKED&FORM=MSNH&v=1&q=fo" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:04:54 -0400] "GET /Li.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4781 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:05:25 -0400] "GET /Po.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4774 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:05:34 -0400] "GET /St.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4581 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:05:50 -0400] "GET /Co.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5765 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:08 -0400] "GET /Ai.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4523 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:09 -0400] "GET /Ch.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4626 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:11 -0400] "GET /Pi.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4577 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:15 -0400] "GET /St.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4456 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:20 -0400] "GET /Me.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4351 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:27 -0400] "GET /Fl.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4547 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:06:31 -0400] "GET /Mo.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4533 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:07:09 -0400] "GET /Fu.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4558 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:07:21 -0400] "GET /Fl.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4847 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"
    ool-18bd95cc.dyn.optonline.net - - [28/May/2003:17:07:23 -0400] "GET /Bl.html HTTP/1.1" 200 5445 "http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=le+&FORM=SMCRT&x=46&y=8" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; AT&T CSM6.0; AT&T CSM 6)"
    mx4.cj.com - - [28/May/2003:17:07:23 -0400] "GET /Ca.html HTTP/1.1" 200 4744 "-" "CJNetworkQuality; http://www.cj.com/networkquality"

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