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  1. #1
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    I just got this from J Crew @ LinkShare.


    "The purpose of this email is to let you know that we have changed the terms of our agreement with you. They new legal terms will be uploaded and take effect by July 11, 2002. These new terms will replace the old terms.

    The agreement has been changed to clarify J.Crew's policy on coupons.

    * J.Crew on occasion will use coupons to target new customers.

    * However, some affiliate sites have posted coupons that were sent to consumers through our email, catalog, or other sources and were not provided through the LinkShare interface.

    o The use of the coupons in these cases is unauthorized and prohibited.

    * With this revised agreement, if an affiliate site posts an unauthorized coupon on their site or through email, they will not be paid any commissions for that calendar month.

    * Customers may still use coupons through affiliate sites, but affiliate sites may not provide unauthorized coupons to visitors.


    Again, thank you for being a part of this great program. If you have any comments or suggestions, please feel free to contact me at affiliate@jcrew.com. "


    Pull those coupons if you want paid... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Core

  2. #2
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    hmm, a sale is a sale.. If we find a deal on there site and it's not on linkshare? then we lose commission. I think that isn't fair. we gave them a sale and they don't pay us?

  3. #3
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    I read that as saying that if a customer knows about a coupon and "brings it with them" (hope that makes sense) you'll get commission, but if *you* post an unauthorized coupon on your site that's when the rule kicks in and the trouble starts. As long you make sure only to post coupons that are authorized, there should be no problem with the occasional customer using a coupon code they found elsewhere.

    I am not a lawyer, but that's how I read it.

  4. #4
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    I personally don't have a problem with this change in policy. Think about it... Those are special promotions to lure new customers! I wouldn't want to lose that kind of money if I am not getting new customers. Those coupons add up quickly.

    Core

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Sorry folks, the keywords here are, '...they will not be paid any commissions for that calendar month.'

    So if you have a coupon posted at your site (and presumably, they see it), you forfeit all commissions that month. Anybody else read it that way?

    Another, item to "Trust" the merchant with.

    Fred :rolleyes:

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I caught that as well... I wouldn't risk posting coupons if those are the terms.

    Core

  7. #7
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    JCrew does not offer coupons through affiliates. I receive their promo e-mails in my personal mailbox every now and then. If I see a coupon offered there, I post it. Since I do not buy using that coupon, my customers would and it serves JCrew's purpose.

    I dropped JCrew and weeding out every link to their site. In affiliate marketing, AFFILIATE is the BOSS, NOT THE MERCHANT. According to my rules of engagement, merchant is not allowed to offer coupons and tell me not to tell my customers about it.
    Another one bites the dust.

    -BluesX

  8. #8
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BluesX:

    I dropped JCrew and weeding out every link to their site. In affiliate marketing, AFFILIATE is the BOSS, NOT THE MERCHANT. According to my rules of engagement, merchant is not allowed to offer coupons and tell me not to tell my customers about it.
    Another one bites the dust.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Affiliate Marketing is a PARTNERSHIP where affiliates work with merchants to make a great marketplace where everybody makes money. That is if it works right. I personally wouldn't want people distributing coupons cutting into my bottom line... That's just my opinion.

    Core

  9. #9
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    >Affiliate Marketing is a PARTNERSHIP

    Yep. It means partners must agree on the rules of engagement and set the rules together. As a partner, I do not take orders from the other, I am open to discussing the business.

    >where affiliates work with merchants to make a great marketplace where everybody makes money.

    Yes, the only thing I'd change is, where Merchants work with Affiliates....

    > I personally wouldn't want people distributing coupons cutting into my bottom line... That's just my opinion.

    Most definately. JCrew invests a few grands on a software to offer and track coupons (like OfficeMax does), there's no way an affiliate can get credit from a sale occured through a coupon offer.

    Well, my opinion is, they don't know business, I am not going to teach them, so I'll let them go their own ways.

    Bottom line is all ours. Remember we are partners!

    -BluesX

  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Affiliate Marketing is a PARTNERSHIP where affiliates work with merchants to make a great marketplace where everybody makes money<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Try telling this to a merchant who turns off your cookies after the first sale. If you send them a bigger fish than usual (regular repeat customer), they reap additional profits. But it's still only one liv-a-snap for you, pup.

  11. #11
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    I think this policy is more fair than KBToys and that other place that decided to reverse all transactions involving coupons.

    At least they are telling you before it happens so that you can drop out in time.

  12. #12
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In affiliate marketing, AFFILIATE is the BOSS, NOT THE MERCHANT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I LIKE that philosophy!

  13. #13
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    I like it too, and it's as it should be. It's OUR website, WE do the work. WE pay the costs of operation. It only follows that WE decide what to do with OUR sites, OUR businesses, not the merchant. Not until they start paying us for our costs and their exposure up front (and then it would be something else and not affiliate marketing).

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    In a perfect partnership world we would be able to require that merchants getting over 200,000 impressions without showing one sale would be required to display the EcomCity banner & link 100,000 times on their web site. See how I give them a fair break.

  15. #15
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    LOL Mike. I like that. It reminds me of a client I had that told me he made the car dealership take $200 off the price of the car as advertising costs unless they took their dealership emblem off the trunk. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Another one bites the dust.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Weird. That was the exact phrase I muttered to myself as I read that email from JCrew. Oh well.

    If they want the coupons to be for first time customers only, fix the redemption system so that they only work if you're a new customer. Its not rocket science. Sites have been doing it for years. (Of course, not always successfully).

    I remember when REEL.com pulled this about 2 years ago. Well.. look at them now [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    These old school merchants with their b&m real world thinking are going to have problems until they realize that on the net it doesnt work that way.. information is king and it will be shared. Merchants who use promotions (including coupons) effectively will reap the rewards of it, I think.


    j


    [edited for content..doh.]

    [ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: Joseph Monuit ]

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    2. Partner's Responsibilities.
    [...]
    2.2. Use of unauthorized links or coupon codes (those links or codes not specifically provided to Partner
    through The LinkShare Network™) by Partner in the Engagement is prohibited, and will result in the
    forfeiture of all commissions earned hereunder by Partner for the month(s) the unauthorized links or
    coupon codes appear on Partner's site. Unauthorized coupon codes shall include, but not be limited to
    those coupon codes unrelated to the Engagement that are distributed through Merchant's catalogs,
    consumer e-mail newsletters, retail cards or direct mail promotions.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    mmmhmmm.

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Makes one wonder how eBates or Gator and other "incent" Duperaffiliates get special treatment...while the normal affiliate gets the shaft on coupons and such. Tough crap J Crew I never promote a coupon from and wank merchant who thinks that trick for click works. They are the darkside's tool of choice and complete indicator a merchant's proggram is pure play advertising and doesn't address landing pages and converting products.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Makes one wonder how eBates or Gator and other "incent" Duperaffiliates get special treatment...[/QUOTE

    I think it's all in the "relationship," if you want to do some nifty things, then get to know the people at a merchant company (or any other business for that matter).

    And no, it's not as easy as all that. Of course, you can always bring more horsepower to the table (i.e. cash, or a credible promise of big things to come).

    Now, most of us don't have those things to offer. Not to despair, most of us have been doing affiliate work for a while - and we are resourceful.

    Here is another suggestion from the "Let me generate work for others file." Use the influence of ABW and our "Membership" to go to merchants to say "Our membership would like to have 'x priviledges' (coupons, free shipping, exclusive special discounts, etc.)" And tell them we will be able to bring "X" amount of business their way to make it worthwhile.

    Fred

  20. #20
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    It kind of bothers me that JCrew isn't saying
    "we will terminate our relationship with any affiliate who posts unauthorized links or coupon codes,"

    but more along the lines of

    "We're happy for you to keep sending us traffic, however, if we deem any content on your site at any one instant in time to be out of line, then we reserve the right to not pay you for a whole month"

    LS Moderator is this even appropriate?

    [ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Joseph Monuit ]

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador LinkShare Moderator's Avatar
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    Hi Joseph,

    While I cannot speak on behalf of J.Crew, from what I can tell the merchant has clearly stated their policy within the legal Terms & Conditions of their program. While they may not choose to discontinue your relationship if those terms are violated, they are taking a strong stance on penalization for the unauthorized use of their name, brand, and coupons. These terms were presented upfront, so that affiliates are given the choice to continue the relationship according to these guidelines.

    Thanks,
    Sarah

  22. #22
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    Sarah,

    Linkshare needs to set the rules of conduct here. What JCrew says is illogical, let alone illegal. Affiliate, by definition, has every right to use merchant's name and trade marks to promote the merchant. If JCrew does not want affiliates to promote JCrew, JCrew needs to get out of this arena. IT IS LINKSHARE's RESPONSIBILITY to EDUCATE MERCHANTS on LEGAL and LOGICAL issues on AFFILIATE MARKETING through LINKSHARE NETWORK.

    If JCrew does not want affiliates ot promote JCrew through coupons, JCrew chooses not to partner with sites that promote coupons, and JCrew finds an internal solution that will prevent affiliates from getting credited for sales through tracable coupon offers.

    JCREW has NO F****G right to say "If you post coupons, we won't pay you for an entire month". They have a right to say, "if you promote coupons, drop us or we willd rop you".

    Get it Sarah.. don't you BS me.

    -BluesX

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador LinkShare Moderator's Avatar
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    Hi BluesX,

    LinkShare is represented on this board not only to respond to your feedback, but also to relay the concerns and issues raised here directly to our merchants. We think it's very important to educate LinkShare merchants on Best Practices within LinkShare and the industry, and absolutely take all of your input into consideration. You are right in that there are many merchants who do not treat their affiliates like a sales channel, but rather, like an advertising channel. From the LinkShare Symposium to Merchant Training, we continually emphasize and stress the importance of treating affiliates like salespeople, and treating them fairly. Feedback that we get from this board helps us to reinforce that message with our merchants.

    However, LinkShare does not set a merchant's commission structure, or the terms of their program. Merchants have the right to establish terms specific to their business, company, and program, just as affiliates have the right not to participate. Understand that merchants need to retain control over how and where their specific coupons and promotions are used. Coupons are used to track promotions and effectiveness in different channels and to different target audiences. When affiliates use coupon codes not intended for the affiliate channel, the merchant's analysis becomes polluted. In fact, unauthorized use of coupons came up during our recent Merchant Advisory Board meeting, and while there are many affiliates who will abide by a merchant's terms, many more also disregard such terms. It's easy to say that merchants should implement technology to restrict coupon use, but at the same time, affiliates should respect the terms of the agreement. And when they don't (and I'm not saying that it's anyone on this board), some merchants feel that they must resort to strict terms that will penalize affiliates for posting unauthorized coupons.

    At the end of the day, the merchant has the obligation of setting forth and communicating their program terms, and if, as an affiliate, you do not agree with those terms, then you have the right to not partner with them.

    Best,
    Sarah

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Your merchants are in NO POSITION to penalize me. I am in a position to penalize THEM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Amen!

  25. #25
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    If they'd wanted to be known as 'J Screw' all they had to do is say so...


    I

    [ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

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