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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    This LS merchant has 10 return days
    Transaction date:03/04/2003
    Process date:03/05/2003
    Sales:$135.60
    (4) Return Days Exceeded

    There are 17 of them for this month for this merchant in the non-commissionable reports, amounting to over $700.00.

    If this merchant has 10 return days, why is the transaction date and the process date only a day apart?
    And where do (4) Return days figure in the scheme of things?

    TIA

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    hmmmmm .... I'm confused to.

    Ray Thomas
    DesignerWiz.com CEO
    Development Resource & Javascript Public Archive Center
    http://DesignerWiz.com

  3. #3
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    (may be wrong) I think that "(4)" may be the "reason number" that they select from a drop-down menu when negating the sale.

    But how does a sale get credited to an affiliate in the first place if the cookie has expired? Very curious to hear an official explanation of this phenomena. There is no doubt, even with an expired cookie, that the referral came from the affiliate. Only a dishonest merchant would use this excuse to avoid paying a commission, expired cookie or not.

    Or perhaps the merchant could explain

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    Hell wasn't big enough so I had to come back.

  4. #4
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    hmm was the merchant Dutch Gardens?

    Heidi
    Fit2a-t - Make Money Selling T-Shirts From Your Site!!

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Hi Heidi, no it wasn't Dutch Gardens

    Well, it's got me stumped...hopefully Sarah will be around and can explain what it means.

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> hopefully Sarah will be around and can explain what it means. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    wouldn't count on it

  7. #7
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    ok just checking cuz I had this problem with them and I wrote to them and told them I was gonna remove them cuz of the 0 cookie and they told me it should have been a 10 day cookie but thats not what it said in the linkshare interface, though I know when I signed up it had been 10 day.

    they are all fixed now -- back to 10 day cookie and getting credit for my sales

    Heidi
    Fit2a-t - Make Money Selling T-Shirts From Your Site!!

  8. #8
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    Curiosity may be piqued by the fact that this particular merchant repeats the same keyword 20 times or more in titles and metatags (and possibly more) in their doorway pages that are submitted to SE's, which are re-directed to the actual product pages of their site.

    One instance of dishonesty generally accompanies another.

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    Hell wasn't big enough so I had to come back.

  9. #9
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    hehe I assumed. Not the same merchant MJ refers to, but matter of concern nonetheless.

    -----------------------------

    Hell wasn't big enough so I had to come back.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador LinkShare Moderator's Avatar
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    Hi mousejockey -

    The number (4) is only the reason code for the non-commissionable transaction. Number 4 means that the transaction was non-commissionable because the transaction occurred after the allowable return days.

    Transaction date is the date that the order was placed, as deemed by the merchant. This is not necessarily the date that the user first clicked on a link to the merchant's website. The process date is simply the date that LinkShare receives the transaction information, and uploads it into our system. Therefore, the difference between transaction date and process date does not impact return days.

    When a user clicks on a LinkShare link and enters a merchant's website, a cookie is deposited on the user's computer. This cookie tracks any subsequent visits to the merchant's site, and is used to determine whether or not return days have been exceeded.

    Sarah

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This cookie tracks any subsequent visits to the merchant's site, and is used to determine whether or not return days have been exceeded. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Why would a sale be credited to an affiliate in the first place if the cookie has indeed expired?

    -----------------------------

    Hell wasn't big enough so I had to come back.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Hi Sarah and thanks for the answer but it does open the question, as deelz said:[Why would a sale be credited to an affiliate in the first place if the cookie has indeed expired?]

    Besides I'm having a hard time getting my head around, how 17 sales can be non-commissionable in the first 20 days or so of the month, when the sales all apparently happened on different days, and the merchant has a ten day cookie.

    You'd think at least a few would stick...wouldn't you

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  13. #13
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    Clarifcation...

    Q: Why would a sale be credited to an affiliate in the first place if the cookie has indeed expired?

    A: Cookies are probably not expiring. Merchants across all networks can dictate the return day range for which a transaction is commissioned, but it doesn't mean the cookie expires on that day. So, the merchant's cookie is probably set to last for years but doesn't expire at the specified return days. The specified return days has nothing to do with the cookie duration, but only something to do with what will be commissioned.

    So, it would seem all transactions are still matched to affiliates and logged, but only ones at less than "X" return days are commissioned, and the others are reported back to you as "return days exceeded".


    Q: ...how 17 sales can be non-commissionable in the first 20 days or so of the month, when the sales all apparently happened on different days, and the merchant has a ten day cookie.

    A: Sarah did explain about transaction date and process date, which shouldn't be used to figure out return days. What she alluded to but didn't outright mention is the existence of a click through date, which is when the return day clock starts ticking. For these 17 transactions that occurred "this month", the clickthrough date was some point 10 days prior to the transaction date, i.e. the clickthrough could have been 11, 26, 54, 83, etc. days prior.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Affiliateguy, so your saying some of these transactions may not have been made in March?

    Which means the information posted on the transaction and process dates are useless?

    One other thing:
    I know they 'have' to be March transactions as the products listed as sold are new products I didn't put on my site until March and the merchant didn't have them before March.

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  15. #15
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    hey mousejockey,

    hmm, what i mean is the original click happened prior to march, but the transaction occurred in march. so, something like this:

    click date: feb 15
    transaction date: mar 4
    total days between ("return days"): 17

    and not relevant to return days would be the process date: mar 5

    As for the several products not available on your site or the merchant's site before March...a person still may have clicked through from your site back in February or January, etc., bought nothing, but came back in March to the merchant when the item was available, and bought it. In this case, again, the days between click date and transaction date would be way beyond 10.

    So, it doesn't so much matter that a product link didn't exist on your site or at the merchant's site...it just matters that you had links to that merchant prior to march that sent visitors to the merchant, and at some point in march, they bought something.

    Hope that helps.

    BTW, how's your blitzball skills, tidus?

  16. #16
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    mousejockey -

    IMHO it is a wonderful thing that Linkshare continues to show the affiliate sale even though the return days have been exceeded. This provides 2 very dynamic purposes. First it allows a merchant to measure the true effect of conversion and buyer habits. With this type of reporting it shouldn't be too difficult for a merchant to understand the average buying cycles and hot point for various types of buyers as well as the effect of various types of merchandising when tied back to the media type, affiliate generating the original click and the re-entry points. In addition a dishonest merchant can then hone their program to a "t" and may find a simple way to never have to pay a commission. On the other hand an honest merchant can look at it and say "it appears that sites willing to do some great presell for me are driving traffic that returns 3 times in a 70 day period before making their first purchase, so I need to offer at least 90 return days to my sales team"

    Second - for the affiliate it is the perfect measure of an honest program. If all of your sales are consistently exeeding the allowable return days, you have a clear path of action for your future relationship with this merchant.

    1. Email or call the AM and inform them of your evident value to their program and request an immediate private offer with reasonable return days stated (and whatever else you feel is fair)

    2. If they refuse... well as Charlie says "flip them the bird" pull their ads and find a merchant who deserves the benefit of your hard earned traffic.

    3. If you have trouble finding any... I'd be glad to offer you 365 Return Days anytime.

    Dale Wentzel
    Director, Online Marketing Motormint.com
    Nothing Builds Business Better than a Strong A.R.M.

    Buy them a new application and they'll be content for a day - Show them how to code... and they'll go into business for themselves.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Thank you, I'm less confused now
    Gatekeeper, [If all of your sales are consistently exeeding the allowable return days, you have a clear path of action for your future relationship with this merchant. ]

    This appears to be the emerging pattern with this merchant, so I will be contacting them as suggested or flipping the bird

    Affiliateguy, thanks for your patience and explaining

    BTW Tidus has retired to the Calmlands to work at affiiate marketing the only monsters encountered these days are cash sucking parasites

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

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