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  1. #1
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    read the following thread at abw:

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=7506067654

    carneol

  2. #2
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Durn straight they are - always have and don't intend to do a durn thing about it either.

    Ebudae

    If you understand, things are just as they are...
    if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I would like for LinkShare to explain how they justify discriminating against many of their affiliate publishers. Most of the agreements with the networks and the merchants say we will be paid a commission for all sales initiated on our sites.

    Yet they allow another publisher within the network to overwrite our cookie and take the commission. Seems to me like they are defaulting on that agreement. And it seems to me by doing so, there are damages to the affiliates, and they are still obligated to pay us commissions. If they want to pay a third party a commission as well, that's fine too as long as they don't fail to pay the party they have a contract with.

    All affiliates have contracts with the networks and the merchants, it's time everyone lived up to their contractural obligations.

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  4. #4
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    Andy,

    Thank you for your comments, but based on the way this thread was created I would ask everyone to put their postings above in the linked to directory. It is confusing for everyone to keep track of the multible discussions taking place, and I am fearful that some might not see that I am answering them in the linked to forum.

    Best regards,
    Stephen

  5. #5
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    Her's an idea Steve, stop ripping us off and we will stop posting about it. Or am I still censored from sharing facts.

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    R,

    Your not censored unless you break the rules, you haven't.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Won't work, Stephen.

    You aren't going to be able to tell people what they should talk about and where they should talk about it. Conversations don't do that and neither do open forums.

    Might as well choose your battles, now. Choose wisely. Fight the important ones and skip the others. If this is an important battle, I wonder just why you would need so badly to control the direction of the conversation. If it is because you just like things all neat and tidy, you may as well forget it. Ain't gunna happen here. And, you won't thrive under the stress of trying to make it happen.

    Be assured, you won't win this one so cut your losses before you look really foolish.

    ABW isn't going to change to suit your organized nature and you won't be able to make the membership shape up and fly right. The reason is because we like it this way and we have you way out numbered.

    And, oh, you underestimate us. We don't get confused as easily as you might suppose from reading our posts. We can truly follow the conversation in multiple threads. It is just a little trick we do, playing dumb. That way you can't really estimate our strength.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on October 20, 2003 at 12:23 AM.]

  8. #8
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haiko:
    R,

    Your not censored unless you break the http://abestweb.com/rules.htm, you haven't.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_</font></p><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I know you would never censor me, your decent. I was just saying that because I felt like stephen was telling me were and what to post. That I don't like. Kinda reminds me of stalin, or maybe hitler. "If you don't support me you are the ennemy."

    Keep thinking that way and maybe linkshare will fall sooner rather than later.

  9. #9
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    edited cause I'm to steammed, I need's to chill.

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    ... and you bieng in Canada, I take that's easy to do

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Andy,

    Thank you for your comments, but based on the way this thread was created I would ask everyone to put their postings above in the linked to directory. It is confusing for everyone to keep track of the multible discussions taking place, and I am fearful that some might not see that I am answering them in the linked to forum.

    Best regards,
    Stephen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Stephen,

    This is the LinkShare forum, and the thread does seem to be on topic, so it seems to me this is an appropriate place to post. You still haven't addressed my original post:

    I would like for LinkShare to explain how they justify discriminating against many of their affiliate publishers. Most of the agreements with the networks and the merchants say we will be paid a commission for all sales initiated on our sites.

    Yet they allow another publisher within the network to overwrite our cookie and take the commission. Seems to me like they are defaulting on that agreement. And it seems to me by doing so, there are damages to the affiliates, and they are still obligated to pay us commissions. If they want to pay a third party a commission as well, that's fine too as long as they don't fail to pay the party they have a contract with.


    I would appreciate a response.

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  12. #12
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    Ok now I must have hiccupped causing me to leave the world of Billy Pilgrim where time had happily come unstuck, that was my favorite. For now I seem now to be entering the world of poor Yossarian in Joseph Heller's Catch 22. For I clearly am not smart enough to get out of this predicament which has somehow entangled me. What can a man who is damned if he does and damned if he does not do. If I talk to you about making money, you all want to talk about what losses you have had. If I talk about what losses you have had you want to talk about censorship, and if I suggest centralizing discussions around topics, well then you can all read the above postings.

    Well what is there to do other then get into my bomber plane and fly a few more missions in the hopes that the number of missions I need to do to get a reprieve will not continue to climb. In the end, I know that beginning the ride is the end. Oh well life is dandy candy sometimes.

    Well if I am to ride that plane one more time at least I will try to do it with a smile so here goes. Get ready with your anti aircraft cannons cause I have just given you another plane to shoot at. All I suggested is that we keep all posts on the same topic in the same thread (here is the first plane entering the field of vision). What took place is simply that everyone was posting their discussion in multiple places and thus making it hard for me (and I have to believe anyone) trying to follow the logic of the thread (logic at this point being a very loosely defined term). (boom boom goes the canons as you aim your sights skyward)

    Someone else chose to start the thread with a link to the another thread which is fine with me, but if people are going to post all over the place and then expect me to try to hunt down these posts to respond to, or better yet try to claim that I am not responding to them at all when a full discussion is taking place elsewhere then I will voice my opinion. (I can hear the screams from below…..there are just too many targets fire faster)

    I am not censoring anyone and in fact trying very much to have an open dialogue. All I can see is that everyone is jumping down my throat for asking to make the thread simpler to follow. (ok that was too easy)

    Ok now the planes are in the distance so here is my parting rumble…..I have no problems answering questions; in fact I happily did so this weekend. Your responses only highlight why I was suggesting centralizing the discussion.

    Wait, in the distance I can hear one last plane that is straggling along…..here it comes boys aim high…Again, if all you are looking to do is pick a fight or try to show how strongly you feel on the subject then by all means keep doing what you are doing. I for one am happy to discuss with any hard working and serious affiliate any and all LinkShare and industry related issues in a civilized manner. We are the leader and thus it is our job to deal with these very difficult issues. In the end, Yossarian has to do what he does and that’s just a part of this whole exercise. Me, I am just a catch 22 fan.

    Earn More in Q4,
    Steve

  13. #13
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    I wish for only one post that you could take us seriously. Your insulting and you always avoid addressing the issues before you.

    Never mind the planes, the wars and baseball, wake up and work on paying us instead of pertending to be a lame writter with no imagination.

    Why can you not fix the problem once and for all, that's the only way that you will stop all of this. If I was to take your pay check away and you were broke. So broke that you couldn't even pay the rent. Would you then be "happy" and understanding towards someone that has a posisition to help you yet mocks you, deviates from the subject and avoids any "real" solutions to the problem.

    You must be really comfy in your little linkshare chair not giving a hoot about us eh?

    You must be really getting a laugh at us while thinking I don't even care.

    Karma, it'll catch up to you. and BTW just so you don't think I'm from another affilaite service or something. I'm not, i'm one of yours.

    A linkshare affiliate publisher who is getting ripped off by YOU, LINKSHARE.

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haiko:
    ... and you bieng in Canada, I take that's easy to do

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_</font></p><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    lol, :P

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by smesser:
    I for one am happy to discuss with any hard working and serious affiliate any and all LinkShare and industry related issues in a civilized manner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I, too am a Catch 22 fan. However...Andy's post seems quite 'civilized' and is worthy of response.

  16. #16
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    Just had to chime in because I quite literally cannot believe how condescending and patronizing that last post was. From 2002 Best, but for whom?)

    What do you expect from those speaking down from ivory towers?

    And do the parasites ever get treated like this???

    I stay detached much of the time because I remind myself that networks are middlemen that took the direct relationship between merchants looking for publishers to market their wares, and stepped in like agents in the sports world, to get their piece of the pie, and then decide when they have developed considerable power and leverage, that they are the most important player.

    I understand the networks perspective, LS in particular, and that they think they have more than bent over backwards to enforce the COC, or their own version of it etc... I do believe that THEY believe it. But it is also the very reason that I have absolutely no faith in them whatsoever, and choose an acrimonious relationship with them and align myself philosophically with the super affiliates (the honest ones), who still have some voice, and leverage of their own...

    I also understand that they (LS, etc...), don't get it on any level, and that affiliates have every right to advocate for themselves, and fight for their right to expose dirty tricks, and sneaky tactics from parasites, and out networks who look the other way because they are advocating THEIR position, which is to remain fat and happy, and convince themselves that they are doing everything in their power to appease the incents, and honest merchants simultaneously...

    I would love to see the day when the big networks either become irrelevant, or diminish in power because they on some levels especially when I see a post like that, are as bad as the parasites themselves, siphoning off money that could actually go to the publisher (directly) who promotes the merchant in the first place. The sense of entitlement from the networks (gall) me.

    Networks are middlemen and should be thought of as such in my opinion, and certainly no more important than merchants, or advertisers...

    Let the battle rage on...

    Oh and the catch 22 is only present because of the misunderstanding by (2002 Best)'s own confusion over where the fundamental issues are, and to go back to the post he was referring to, who gives a rats a$$ whether he thinks that videos are not credible proof of links hijacking, what matters is that commissions are still being stolen period. Do videos not aid in ATM theft, convenience store theft, BANK ROBBERIES, vandalism, etc, etc, etc...........

    I honestly think that he is not using diversion tactics with his posts (I could be wrong on that one but will give the benefit of the doubt), but certainly, he doesn't understand that this will never be some calm, nice little politically correct chat over wine, but rather an impassioned, raging debate, with affiliates rightfully protecting their turf, and advocating for fair business practices...

    Who the heck else is gonna fight for us???

    Jonathon Palbicke
    Webmaster
    www.krookedstix.com
    Webmaster@krookedstix.com
    Krooked Stix, Inc.
    It's all golf baby!

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    Catch 22 is actually quite appropriate.

    But, it isn't Catch 22 because, whatever you say, you can't please US.

    It's Catch 22 because, the one thing you CAN'T do, is admit here, openly in a public forum, what is really going on.

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Heated debates are getting to be the norm as Holiday shopping brings the abuses to the top of the sewage treatment plant....called ABW.

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...854#1086062854 was just a starter.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  19. #19
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    14 open threads with complaints against linkshare. Is this not enough for you people to do something about this parasite and not getting paid problem?

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador LinkShare Moderator's Avatar
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    Dear ABW Members -

    I see a significant amount of misunderstanding and misperception in this discussion, causing misleading statements. There are a few points I'd like to make clear for everyone:

    1 - The LinkShare Affiliate Membership Agreement does protect affiliate links against predatory activity by downloads, etc. and as everyone knows, all affiliates that participate in the LinkShare Network are subject to those terms and conditions. LinkShare's Anti-Predatory Advertising Addendum takes our stance on predatory activities further by providing a set of standards and procedures that guide providers of download applications in how to comply with LinkShare's stance. Signatories to the Addendum have not only agreed to abide by its strict terms of conduct but also coordinate directly with LinkShare to give us the opportunity to test and review their continuing compliance. We have spent countless hours working with affiliates such as Ebates and TopMoxie to ensure that when a user clicks on a LinkShare Network Affiliate's "LinkSynergy" links, their software "stands down" and allows the user to pass to the merchant site without the interference of redirects, pop-ups, etc. Certainly, there have been instances in the past where "software bugs" were brought to our attention, including on these message boards, but in every instance, the bug was quickly investigated and the problems resolved with, in nearly all instances, the full cooperation of the download provider. We also continue to acknowledge that we cannot be all knowing about everything that might affect the LinkShare Network and its participants. So we continue to ask for people to tell us if they find instances of downloads "hijacking" or intefering with a LinkSynergy link. There continues to be a lot of talk about WhenU and Gator, but please remember that neither participates in the LinkShare Network today. They are not applications that we support. I think that many affiliates fail to recognize that LinkShare is the only Affiliate Marketing Network that does not work with WhenU.

    2 - Many affiliates are wrongly labeled as "parasites." Just because an affiliate has a downloadable software application does not mean that it's a "parasite." These downloadable applications often add significant value to consumers, many of whom have directly requested such applications from the affiliate. Again, LinkShare has tried to create a policy that supports innovation and the creation of value while protecting the foundation of the affiliate marketing industry.

    3 - There will always be competition. We often hear of affiliates complaining that their conversions are low or that they used to perform so much better until these "parasites" entered the industry. Recognize that there are more affiliates now than seven years ago when LinkShare first created the industry - more competition means that it may be hard to sustain the same high conversions year after year by doing the same thing. Innovation and creativity are what has caused the affiliate marketing industry to flourish, and we want to acknowledge those who have continuously worked to create value that drives loyal and converting traffic to their sites.

    Sarah

  21. #21
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    "LinkShare first created the industry"

    If you're talking about the affiliate marketing industry, thats been around before any network got involved. So Linkshare did not create the affiliate marketing industry.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Linkshare was the brain child of merging the DoubleClick Ad serving technology with the computer industry VAR (value added reseller)program with a ASP reporting interface.

    Like the computer industry the value added resellers have been at war for years with those merchants selling direct, snipping their accounts and playing favorites with special incent deals & pricing to what they call house accounts. BHO's are considered house accounts and get special commission rates, preferencial treatment and autoloaded incent offerings....as they bring in extra network revenue due to double dipping on normally non-commissionable sales activity.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  23. #23
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    Nice but how come I haven't gotten paid in 6 months for sales that are reported and acknowledged by linkshare?

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Thread closed as issues were discussed by Stephen Messer in http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=...7506067654&p=4

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

    [Made link point to appropriate page in the thread]

    [This message was edited by Haiko on October 22, 2003 at 01:59 PM.]

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