Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41
  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    I know Linkshare hasn't really taken much of a stand on parasites themselves, but was wondering if Linkshare has any position on affilates having driveby installs of these parasites on their sites.

    Say I visit a site that is a Linkshare affiliate. By just going to one page on that website, I get multiple parasites installed on my computer, including 180 solutions, bargainbuddy,some lycos site search and some blaze search just from visiting this site. There are no popups asking me if I want to install them, they just show up on my computer..

    I would also like to know the positions of any affiliate managers that happen to read this post.

    I realize this is a holiday weekend, but wanted to get this posted. Hope for some kind of answer soon please.

  2. #2
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    As much as I hate loathe detest would like to squash parasites underfoot Connie, if any of the networks said anything to an ordinary affiliate for doing this when allowing the big names to do, it would stink.

    It would be ok for any AM's to boot them from their programs and indeed they should but for a network to say anything ......no no no that would be too hypocrytical of them. (plus it would cost them money, which I think would be a far bigger reason for them to keep their two faced lying hypocrytical gobs shut.)

    If you wade through all the bile and venum you will find my opinions on both the parasites and their benefactors.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  3. #3
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Good challenge Connie and your missing the point Gordon. I presonnally cruisaded Befree for months to remove Gator and all their parasite infestation partners from that network. They didn't whack the sleezeball affiliates, who still today push BHO drive-by for infestation fees, but the did give Gator the boot.

    Connie ran into what 200 million others, including her own loyal shoppers, face daily. Affiliates who deserve to be run out of this industry after tarring and feathering. These same affiliates who perfom the poorman's BHO trick of "cookie stuffing" from crappy sites using spammy SE listings. The same people who are bringing down so much heat on deceptive affiliate SERPs, and BHO installs that the SE's might bann all affiliate links by the throwing out the babies with the dirty bathwater.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,356
    Forget the networks and the merchants. Go straight to the legal department of the TM holder whose products are being promoted; bad experiences like this tarnish their image.

    Works REAL FAST. You can be sure that their relationship with the "distributor" whose affiliates are doing this will get interesting too.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    It just frustrates me to no end..
    Here we are trying to do something about the parasites and here we have an affiliate doing driveby installs of those parasites.

    I know this affiliate knows all about parasites. The pay must be pretty good for them to do these drive by installs.

    What affiliate in their right mind, knowing the parasite issue would infect their visitors with this crap on purpose?

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,356
    It's a straw grab, Connie.

    They can't well enough figure out how to make sales on their own, so they jump on the opportunity to make a guaranteed few cents on virtually every visitor to their site.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,026
    If these affiliates are doing CPM through ValueClick, Fastclick or others, they may not be even aware of this. I have seen driveby installs through some rich-media banners served by these CPM networks.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    Knowing this affiliate, I wouldn't put it past them to be doing it on purpose.

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    511
    Sorry connie for being new to parasites, but can i get this right.... some affiliates will have on their site something that when you arrive at their site it automatically without you knowing installs a program or toolbar on your site.. so that when you go to any other site they are affilaited with ... they get sales from there affiliate link being embedded somwhere on your computer?


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    I know Linkshare hasn't really taken much of a stand on parasites themselves, but was wondering if Linkshare has any position on affilates having driveby installs of these parasites on their sites.

    Say I visit a site that is a Linkshare affiliate. By just going to one page on that website, I get multiple parasites installed on my computer, including 180 solutions, bargainbuddy,some lycos site search and some blaze search just from visiting this site. There are no popups asking me if I want to install them, they just show up on my computer..

    I would also like to know the positions of any affiliate managers that happen to read this post.

    I realize this is a holiday weekend, but wanted to get this posted. Hope for some kind of answer soon please. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  10. #10
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    511
    I still do not understand parasites, specially what connie is referring to... you are telling me that some affiliates strategy is to instead of having people arrive at their site and choose to click on the link... to get sale.. they automatically transfer something onto customers computer without them knownig that lets them pick up the sale even if the customer leaves and goes else where but goes direct to merchant?


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chief_Beef_aka_Fy_Dolla_minus_Fo_Fitty:
    It's a straw grab, Connie.

    They can't well enough figure out how to make sales on their own, so they jump on the opportunity to make a guaranteed few cents on virtually every visitor to their site. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KCEdit:
    If these affiliates are doing CPM through ValueClick, Fastclick or others, they may not be even aware of this. I have seen driveby installs through some rich-media banners served by these CPM networks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



    I know that Fastclick accounts need a regular delousing to keep ads for parasites from getting shown, but not that there were drivebys too! Good grief...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  12. #12
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Small Town in Tennessee
    Posts
    5,226
    While my work computer has a "cast iron wall" around it - hec, even emails from friends don't seem to get thru(!), my laptop is basically the way it was when I purchased it.

    Let my 10-year old use the laptop to go to a website that shows him short-cuts for Super Mario Game cube games...

    There are over FOURTEEN visable installs (new desktop icons, new "bookmarked" links, toolbars, etc)

    I don't even want to guess how many hidden installs there are!!!

  13. #13
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    6,195
    I think affiliate sites can be broken down into two basic models.

    Model A: No content, not interested in retaining visitors or getting referrals, targets referral quantity over referral quality. Very few pages. May have multiple pops, unclosable pops, drive-by installs, blind redirects, cookie stuffing. No privacy policy and no email contact info.

    Model B: Content, interested in retaining visitors and referrals, targets referral quality over quantity. Numerous pages. Numerous affiliate banner ads and product links. May have one timed pop-up. Privacy policy and email contact info.

    Of course there are hybrids, too.

    I think most folks at ABW follow the Site B model, but some might have both models in their stable.

    What other characteristics would you assign to the two models, or would you say they're inaccurate or overly generalized?

  14. #14
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If these affiliates are doing CPM through ValueClick, Fastclick or others, they may not be even aware of this. I have seen driveby installs through some rich-media banners served by these CPM networks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Very true KCEdit. However knowing the particular affiliate in question that Connie has seen this with, I am a far cry away of being convinced they are unaware and not coding this themselves. This affiliate has a long history of cookie foul play in more ways than one as well as direct relationships with at least one of the applications Connie received via a drive-by.

    In general I will say this. I know of at least 2 applications that are shifting their focus away from bundling for their installs to downloads via web sites. For one of those companies, the mechanism of choice that they pitch to their "partners" is drive-by installs. They provide for the drive-by via their own banner serve or provide you with the code to attach to ANY of your own banner serves. Additionally, their payment structure would appear to be somewhat more lucrative than what has been seen in the past by some of these guys. Especially if it is high traffic site.

    I believe that what Connie has seen here is going to become more common and a problem as these companies start making an active push for distribution through web sites vs piggybacking.

    As far as LS taking action on this particular case, I am very doubtful. That is based on the fact that they didn't for more than one past offense with this affiliate.

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Connie and Ms.B is this perp 24Malls.com or one of the others some ABWers ranted about getting OUTED?

    Rhea said: "I think most folks at ABW follow the Site B model, but some might have both models in their stable."

    ....OH so true as some vocal critics have disposable domains employing every trick in the book, while posing as pro-affiliate voices. Seems they talk out of both sides of the mouths while feeding from the commission trough. They want the BHO's muzzled as they know how to whack the earnings of the other type affiliates as if it were a science.

    My Take is this particular affiliate deserves for be run under the microscope so others don't think they can adopt the infestation fees or "tricks for clicks". Out the bastard!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  16. #16
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Small Town in Tennessee
    Posts
    5,226
    I was visiting a website the other day, and it had a bunch of customers favorites poll results.

    The winner of the Coolest Looking Website is the link below.

    Of coure I clicked to see what everyone thought was cool looking... And it was very nice.

    Only one problem...

    It's an entire site devoted to installing parasites and making money with them!!!

    It's easy.

    It's profitable.

    You get to co-brand and be just as well-known as Sears or JC Penney!

    Good tech support!

    And of course, it's "helpful" to the people who unknowingly now have a parasite installed.

    Gotta' admit... if I didn't stumble into ABW one day and sumarily obtained a Phd doctorate in anti-parasite studies(!), boy, I would have been easily sold on the stuff!!

    It's gonna' be a long haul getting rid of these things!

    http://www.kmgi.com/

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,419
    Pay attention here.... This thread was created May 29th. It's now June 2nd and NO Linkshare comment has been made. Does this possibly indicate their "real position" concerning their stance against browser spam?

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winterpeg, the Mosquito Capital of Canada
    Posts
    2,299
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Pay attention here.... This thread was created May 29th. It's now June 2nd and NO Linkshare comment has been made. Does this possibly indicate their "real position" concerning their stance against browser spam? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    was thinking similar
    i think I saw a LS moderator in here earlier, but will give benefit of doubt until board is running properly again

  19. #19
    Affiliate Network Rep
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    352
    Hi all,

    Been traveling so was not able to get to this one. Sarah is working with our team getting ready for the big event. I think I understand the question, but my answer may not be to everyones liking. While I hate parasites, and have spent a ton of cash/time/effort going after them, I can not see how we could ever manage to enforce who works with who. While I have no idea why anyone would want to support parasiteware, trying to identify who is working with them would be a monumental task and frankly not one I think we should be doing. I have no problem telling the world that I wont work directly with them, but to tell people that if they work indirectly with them aside from me that I can control that seems a bit far reaching. Not that I would not mind that kind of power, I just do not feel it is the appropriate thing for me to do.

    Steve

  20. #20
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    11,273
    Hi Steve,

    This post runs across the whole board of issues... parasites, those who use parasite software, cookie stuffing...and who's job is protection of merchants and affiliates anyway....

    Unfortunately while you may feel that " trying to identify who is working with them would be a monumental task " some one does have to do it, and right now it's me and other AMs who need to keep a fair playing field.

    Now as I see it, my job is to get people signed up, supported and making sales. LinkShares job is to support me in doing this. Therefore surely the above task is one that should be done by LinkShare and not by me.

    Secondly, the LS reports track source URLs, expect in the case where a click comes from a none web based location. Email, BookMark or Software. Anyone who is generating mass Untraceable source URLs should be reviewed.

    Thirdly, protection of a merchants domain and brand should be enforced, affiliates targeting a merchant through their domain name should be stopped, yes both you and I can make more money by allowing it, but we both know it costs our merchants commission fees that they shouldn't be paying.

    This is not just about protecting affiliate clients , it is about protecting your merchant clients too. And to that end I feel you have an obligation to not only say "I hate parasites" but to act on that feeling too.

    It costs me thousands of dollars a month in potential revenue to say no to 180Solutions, to say no to integration into software run by Ebates, SAHS, BuyersPort, IEPlugin, bargainbuddy, Limewire and so on. And while I will admit some are more willing than others to remove targeting from their software, others make no such attempt and brag about the value they add whilst targeting merchant domain names and the sites of REAL value added Affiliates.

    And it doesn't end there, cookie stuffing is out there unchecked, earning bonuses that are not deserved.....

    Yes, in the US LinkShare does do more than most other networks, with the exception of ShareAsale who are lightyears ahead of everyone else on this matter. BUT you're also far behind the major UK networks who are pro-active and moving fast to stamp out unethical marketing practices, with coordinated boycotts being run by the UK affiliate community. Bravo For Brits!

    It's a challenge, but one that can't be brushed aside with the words "frankly not one I think we should be doing."

    Thank you

    Chris
    Affiliate Marketing by AMWSO. Skype - chrissanderson ::: TEL 1-720-336-1784 ::: www.amwso.net
    Join our affiliate programs :Vaper Empire, Iolo, Art of Tea, or See ALL our Programs here

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,419
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have no problem telling the world that I wont work directly with them, but to tell people that if they work indirectly with them aside from me that I can control that seems a bit far reaching. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hi Steve,

    Do you not consider 180 solutions as a parasite fully a part of browser spam via utilization of drive by downloads on a massive scale and an implementation plan targeted to support it as well as difficulty in uninstalls?

    I find your statements more than inconsistant. How you could responsibly say you're against browser spam and will not partner directly with parasites while partnering with 180 solutions is beyond me?

    Perhaps you have a valid explanation you'd like to share with us because I'm more than baffled.

    On a side note, I sent Linkshare an email a long time ago asking yall "if provided with documentation of affiliates auto setting cookies" if you would act on the data. I never got a response.

    I commonly come across affiliates auto setting cookies and while I have worked with merchants on a case by case basis, it leaves lots of room for improvement because in most cases, it's a core group of affiliates that implement this on a wide array of merchants - not just one of them.

    If you'll will act on the data I can provide, let me know and I'll start sending instances of abuse to whoever you like.

  22. #22
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    Hi Steve,

    You might want to start coming up with a very good explanation to your Merchants when these applications are being installed through their banner ads as to why LS feels it has no right or ability to control this stuff nor does LS have the right to tell those affiliates they can't do business with the companies that are providing the coding for the drive-by installs which are being piggy backed on LS ads. I was recently personally encouraged to use this technique by such a company. And while they didn't say put it in LS banners, I was strongly recommended that I put it in the current banners I was running on my site. And LS along with one other Network was named in particular during the course of the conversation.

    BTW, how are things moving along with that info I overnighted to LS? I understand the time and expense in attempting to monitor foul play, but seems to be even more reason to act on information that handed to you on a silver platter free of charge. And my sympathies don't run real high in regard to time and cost when certain amounts of money are being doled out to....well....you know.

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    LOL as ABW's 3 Musketeers continue on their chosen path to rehab an industry obcessed on automating spammers. That's right folks as the networks first automated the e-mail Opt-Out spammers, list brokers and Telemarketers with funded merchant victims. Then moved to the BHO browser spammers. They love the SE Coupon trademark spammers as their buffered from criticism as a unwhitting neutral 3rd party. Now they turn a blind eye to the poorman's BHO ...the blind auto cookie stuffing spammers saying it's up to the individual AM's to police the perps.


    Whatever happened to the networks ability to grab all the types of spammers by the balls and demand, through a meaningful TOS, affiliates actualy have to AD-VALUE and physical clicks to get to the holy grail of commission checks. Seems the deck is stacked for the tricksters and those playing by ethical rules are just cookie cannon fodder.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by smesser:
    Hi all,

    Been traveling so was not able to get to this one. Sarah is working with our team getting ready for the big event. I think I understand the question, but my answer may not be to everyones liking. While I hate parasites, and have spent a ton of cash/time/effort going after them, I can not see how we could ever manage to enforce who works with who. While I have no idea why anyone would want to support parasiteware, trying to identify who is working with them would be a monumental task and frankly not one I think we should be doing. I have no problem telling the world that I wont work directly with them, but to tell people that if they work indirectly with them aside from me that I can control that seems a bit far reaching. Not that I would not mind that kind of power, I just do not feel it is the appropriate thing for me to do.

    Steve <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I cannot understand this. Linkshare gets handed proof time and time again and nothing is done.
    Maybe if the merchants in your network were made to understand more of the things their affiliates were doing more would be done.
    How many of these issues are the merchants even informed of?

    I get the feeling that Linkshare and other networks just promote the parasites and those using them to their merchants as hot affiliates to work with because they have good numbers. Nevermind how they got those numbers..
    While I don't believe you have the power to tell merchants who they can work with, you can educate, educate, educate!!!!

    What you are basically saying is that this:
    http://ssl.linksynergy.com/php-bin/a...l?aa_locale=us
    MEANS NOTHING!!
    Why even have it if you aren't going to enforce it?

    If the merchants are in your network and use affiliates in your network, how hard is it to explain to these merchants that they won't have "X" affiliate to work with any longer through your network because they are breaking the network terms? Either enforce the terms or do away with them altogether.

    I see lots of hardworking affiliates saving you lots of time and money doing the legwork and sending you proof on a platter and yet nothing is done.

    And I have not yet gotten any response on any of my emails to you nor has Ms.B nor Chris heard any word on a certain issue. We are awaiting some kind of answer from Linkshare. Time is running out. There is some honest, hardworking affiilate out there that has gotten royally screwed and Linkshare needs to do the right thing.

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Amen Connie
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Have ANY Merchants Changed Their Position?
    By Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound in forum Affiliate Tax Laws
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 23rd, 2011, 06:37 PM
  2. Linkshare's darling iWon.com installs spyware trojan
    By ecomcity in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 22nd, 2009, 10:18 PM
  3. Removed - BHO Driveby install affiliate announcement
    By cloudnine in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: March 23rd, 2009, 10:32 AM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 12th, 2003, 01:57 PM
  5. Linkshare's Position on Parasiteware
    By Cedric in forum Rakuten LinkShare - LS
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: May 3rd, 2002, 05:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •