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  1. #1
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    I have to admit, I had not experienced the massive reversals that music123.com has become known for, that is until this month. It seems like every other item is being reversed, when in the past I had very few reversals. And, with the new cookie, sales are way down. I sure hope they know what they are doing over there - If they were losing money because of their affiliate program, then they are doing a hell of a job wrecking it and I applaud their managerial prowess...
    Otherwise, somebody needs to be fired. Either way, I will not be spending any more effort/time/money (aren't they all the same?) on music123.com .

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    They definitely are on a course to make sure affiliate commissions don't hurt their bottom line. At some point they'll go inhouse and start the free traffic cycle all over again.

    Webmaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

  3. #3
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    We are all looked at as a loss.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone @ CyclonesFunnel.com

  4. #4
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    quote:
    I had not experienced the massive reversals that music123.com has become known for

    Welcome to the Club,
    It's insane, and look at the reason, Can't ship/Sold Out, Other...
    Is CJ going to police this, one day... I don't think so, the only thing I like is to watch them looosing their 30%

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  5. #5
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    quote:
    Mike - they'll go inhouse

    I did complain a few time and guess what, they have an inhouse program.
    I think they are taking advantage of CJ (their problem) and us.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Any bets as to when they'll deactivate at CJ?

    Webmaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

  7. #7
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    Bash them all you want, but they still net us an EPC of almost $14.00, with well over 125 paid sales last year. Yes their reversal rate is high, but certainly much lower than some other merchants we deal with at CJ...

  8. #8
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    quote:
    Bash them all you want, but they still net us an EPC of almost $14.00,

    I had around 1000 sales last year and an EPC of almost $20.00.
    Does it make me happy. No.
    They just don't know how to run an affiliate program. They don't respect their affiliates and it makes me wonder if they respect their customers.
    The day they will bring some kind of transparency about their reversals and have an open discussion with us I may revise my opinion.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  9. #9
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    is 14 dollars EPC counting the reversals?


    I just went to their site.. there is NO mention of an affiliate program anywhere. They're all set to drop cj. It is certainly unethical of them to reverse sales if they are just trying to get out of paying before they drop cj.

  10. #10
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    Their private affiliation program is by invitation only.
    I don't think they're going to drop CJ soon, it's a bargain for them. 5%, 24 hours cookies, all you can reverse...
    They are branding their site thru CJ for peanuts

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  11. #11
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    I have had no music123 sales since they dropped their cookie from 45 days. I did email Rona and she told me about their inhouse program. Is that any good or do they actually reverse more since there is no need for public scrutiny like at CJ public stats.

    Also has anyone used musician's friends instead? I don't think they have cookies either but perhaps they have less reversals.

  12. #12
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    I actually have had my biggest sale through Music123 since their cookies dropped! (I'm assuming cookies already placed before the change won't be effected). It was around a $5000 sale! But I've promised myself that if this one gets dropped, they get dropped.

  13. #13
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    quote:
    I have had no music123 sales since they dropped their cookie from 45 days. I did email Rona and she told me about their inhouse program.

    The problem is with Music123 (and their poor affiliate management) not with CJ. What they are doing is unfair to CJ and us.
    Just for that reason, I said NO to them.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  14. #14
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    their internal program only has a 2 day cookie, but pays 1% more. My biggest gripe with 123 is their reversals due to "out of stock" We'd DOUBLE or TRIPLE our epc with them if they'd ship every sale we sent them.

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    "We'd DOUBLE or TRIPLE our epc with them if they'd ship every sale we sent them.
    " ...who says they don't and just keep the commissions???

    Webmaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

  16. #16
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    quote:
    I just went to their site.. there is NO mention of an affiliate program anywhere.


    I wish more sites would remove the affiliate program link. They should be concentrated on selling their stuff, not their affiliate program.

    Prominently displayed affiliate links are a diversionary tactic like 1800 numbers. How many people end up joining programs just wanting to get a kickback on their purchases?

    boom!

  17. #17
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    Thanks to those of who who took the time to contact me directly about the changes to our program. I thought I'd log on and address a few concerns expressed here.

    We asked CJ to run an analysis of their data before making the cookie change. The results showed that 70% of sales happened during the session, 85% happended within 24 hours and 98% closed within 48 hours. Those are hard numbers from CJ based on their tracking system.

    We continue to see 50 - 60 sales per day coming through CJ since making the cookie change. That's actually an increase in volume over what we were seeing in early January before making the change.

    We are not pulling out of CJ. They provide a valuable (albeit expensive) service in administering the program for the 10,000+ smaller affiliates who are signed on.

    CJ does have some limitations though. They consider it a "sale" when the order is placed, before credit card and stock verification. They only allow you to extend a sale once (30 days). Many special order items have longer lead times. They also don't give our affiliates any visibility as to order status. And, as you know, CJ raised their rates to publishers.

    Based on the feedback from many of our top affiliates, we decided to design an in-house program to address this. We would rather pay the increased fee to our affiliates. The program pays a higher commission. We provide visibility directly into our order status system on any affiliate order placed. A sale remains yours no matter how long it takes to fill!! There is no expiration. Commissions are paid by the 7th of each month.

    We took a hard look at competing programs in musical instruments. There were 3. One went bankrupt (we're trying to avoid that fate). One has a session cookie. The last pays commissions 60 days after the end of each quarter. So, I believe we still have the most generous program out there in musical instruments.

    We're continuing to be VERY aggressive on pricing and promotions on our site. This seems to be the formula that results in the highest conversion rate. (Heads up - there's a major outlet sale with over 3000 items happening later this week).

    We're a small company experiencing rapid top line growth. We're aware of and working on the inventory issues that have hurt us and our affiliates. We're committed to continuing to improve. Sometimes, that means making adjustments that aren't popular.

    In spite of the challenges, we continue to see affiliates hang in there because the program makes money for them. I believe in the affiliate marketing channel.

    I'm going to be at a trade show with limited access to email through the week-end. If anyone has sdditional concerns or wants info on the in-house program, pleae drop me a line. I'll be getting back on email next Monday.

    Thanks for your patience and support (and even the negative feedback which helps us get better).

    Rona



    The program is farily new.

  18. #18
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    Rona,

    Glad to see you made it

    Thanks for coming here and addressing some of the concerns. Most affiliate just like to see that their voices count.

    Looking forward to seeing you here often.

    Dave

  19. #19
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    Death to music123

  20. #20
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    It takes some courage to come to this board and I appreciate that. Welcome Rona.
    I'm sure Rona will learn from us what she can do to improve their program.
    Then, may be, they'll make some changes.
    Let's talk.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  21. #21
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    Ebay have a good selection of musical instruments.

    http://listings.ebay.com/pool1/plist....html?from=R10

  22. #22
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    Hi!
    It is time to update the information posted here earlier by Rona, who is our Marketing Director.
    Music123 has now migrated our Affiliate Program from CJ to LinkShare.com, where we can offer a 7-day cookie. We hope that all of our CJ affiliates will join in our new program.
    In a market where our no hassle returns, 45 day price guaranty and satisfaction guaranty are neccessary in order to be competitive, and manufacturer's back-orders are common, there will always be some post-sale cancellations and returns (reversals).
    The differences in the structure of the programs will create fewer reversals as well as generating greater revenues for our affiliates.
    As the General Manager of our company, I am now personally overseeing our Affiliate Program. I welcome your questions at affiliates@music123.com.
    Thanks for reading this response.
    Jeff Cravetz

    Jeff C.

  23. #23
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    posted July 03, 2003 11:34 AM
    Hi!
    Music123 has migrated our Affiliate Program from CJ to LinkShare.com, where we can offer a 7-day cookie.
    In a market where our no hassle returns, 45 day price guaranty and satisfaction guaranty are neccessary in order to be competitive, and manufacturer's back-orders are common, there will always be some post-sale cancellations and returns (reversals).
    The differences in the structure of the programs will create fewer reversals as well as generating greater revenues for our affiliates.
    As the General Manager of our company, I am now personally overseeing our Affiliate Program. I welcome your questions at affiliates@music123.com.
    Thanks for reading this response.
    Jeff Cravetz

    Jeff C.

    Jeff C.

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