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  1. #1
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    Over the past few weeks, we’ve received calls and emails regarding our relationship with 180 Solutions/Metrics Direct, so I thought I’d take a few moments to provide the ABW community with an update about our recent dealings with them.

    You should know that Metrics Direct, then 180 Solutions, signed our Anti-Predatory Advertising Addendum about a year ago. As most of you know, that Addendum obligates Metrics Direct to stand down and not interfere with LinkShare Affiliate referrals.

    We recently revised our terms with them (as we are doing with all of the adware providers in response to new issues raised by the affiliate marketing community and in line with our Online Browsers' Bill of Rights) so that Metrics Direct has now agreed additional terms relating to not collecting personally-identifiable information or proprietary information about LinkShare Network participants, distribution of its software, ease of uninstall, etc.

    Most importantly, Metrics Direct has also agreed that its software will not interfere with users attempting to access a Merchant site by inputting the URL or clicking on a URL whose primary domain consists of the Merchant's brand. There is a timetable in our agreement for them to bring their recently released Zango product into compliance (approximately mid-July) and some additional time to bring any non-compliant installed base into compliance.

    I know some of you are wondering whether their continued participation in the Network pending compliance means LinkShare has endorsed or approved Metrics Direct's technology and practices. Well, the answer is no or, more accurately, not yet.

    Metrics’ execution of the addendum and supplement is merely a framework. It codifies in a legal contract between the companies what the marketplace and LinkShare, in taking the leadership position we have always taken, is now demanding as to the behavior and conduct of adware. We will be working with Metrics Direct over the next month to determine whether their software is in compliance or, if not, can be brought into compliance in a timely manner. Naturally, if there are any developments that need to be shared on this front, we will keep everyone apprised.

    As always, we welcome feedback and information that you may come across with regards to Metrics Direct (or any other adware participating in the LinkShare Network). In this regard, LinkShare is also always open to hearing from and working with the other affiliate marketing service providers as to any issues they have discovered or are aware of in regards to any adware working in our space. Of course, LinkShare will need to be able to verify the authenticity of any conduct that is being alleged, but, as to Metrics Direct, we have certainly heard from them a willingness to address (and correct as necessary) any concerns that are raised about the conduct of their software.

    Adware and spyware have certainly challenged our industry, but it’s also technological advancement and change that will drive its continued growth and development. LinkShare will continue to take the most proactive stance in the industry today, and will keep you updated as we proceed.

    Best regards,
    Stephen

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Merchant Linda's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by smesser:
    There is a timetable in our agreement for them to bring their recently released Zango product into compliance (approximately mid-July) and some additional time to bring any non-compliant installed base into compliance.
    Best regards,
    Stephen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    But in the meantime until they bring Zango and their non-compliant installed base into compliance, it's open season for them to do whatever they want to do.

  4. #4
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Dear Steven / LinkShare,

    As a major supplier of all things that violate my clients Trade Marks and domains I am very happy to see LinkShare as usual taking the lead for the major networks...it's a step in the right direction, but a small one, unless I have maybe missunderstood some of the items you have covered.

    Here are my concerns....

    Okay.... it protects the merchants domain.

    But, it does not protect

    1. Their CPC Campaigns
    2. Their Marketing Campaigns
    3. The Affiliates
    4. Organic SE Results

    1. Because CPC campaigns DO NOT house the merchants domain name or direct links to their sites, they house a Search engine coded version on most occasions, as do LinkShare links.

    2. Does not protect the targeting of marketing campaigns where content and features are integrated into sites such as MSN, iVillage, AOL, equally does not protect their TRADE MARKS

    3. Affiliate all fall through the big cracks. They do not have direct links to the merchants the do feature the merchant Trade Marks and therefore remain fodder for systems that target them, such as 180Solutions and Top Moxie

    4. Organic results remain an easy target for these systems, picking off Trade Marks that appear on Google and others to generate pop ups and redirects. Intercepting what should be traffic heading direct to the merchant or an affiliate site.

    I would like to see this extended to protect the Merchants Trade Marks NO MATTER where they appear. Be it SEO, the merchants site, merchants domain, merchants marketing campaigns or affiliate partner sites (of any size).

    After all, it's the trademarks that these systems target for 90% of their (and I use the word 'their' very loosely) 'sales'.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Affiliate Marketing by AMWSO. Skype - chrissanderson ::: TEL 1-720-336-1784 ::: www.amwso.net
    Join our affiliate programs :Vaper Empire, Iolo, Art of Tea, or See ALL our Programs here

  5. #5
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Stephen .... maybe I'm a cynic by nature but I for sure would not believe anything those lying assoles have said in the past what they say now or what they will say in the future. All they are after is more time to enable them to find another method that will enable them to steal from us.

    They cannot even tell the truth when it is pointed out to them as you well know if you followed the thread that that Tommy started.

    How many chances are these thieving bastards going to get from you Networks? Excuse the language but I feel so strongly about not giving them any more oportunities to steal from us. They have been caught both stealing and lying surely that is enough to get rid of the scum.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  6. #6
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    Why aren't they removed until they comply....instead of giving them time to do as they please.

    Since they are guilty they should be treated as guilty until they make good, not the other way around.

  7. #7
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    I have a couple of questions Steve if you can answer them.

    Are the revised terms published yet? That is posted publicly? Also, is this revision to the Addendum which came out of the Nov 2002 meeting?

    Are the previous components of the Addendum still in effect? All the stuff about the interference with Affiliate links?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>or clicking on a URL whose primary domain consists of the Merchant's brand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The click URL itself consists of the primary domain of the Merchant's brand or the destination URL of the click consists of the Merchant's brand?

    Also does the reference to the Merchant's domain clicks only apply to Merchant A domain type in/click for Merchant A ads? IOW, I do a direct typein to Merchant A whose brand is in their primary domain. Can 180 display an ad for Merchant B? Merchant A is a LS merchant, Merchant B may or may not be a LS Merchant.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>its software will not interfere with users attempting to access a Merchant site <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    How is interfere being defined? I ask because of some statements made at the Symposium regarding this, but those statements were not made by LS.

    Does this new agreement apply to both 180's Zango and n-Case product? I see mention only of Zango. And while 180 has said they are phasing out n-Case, I received a copy of it today.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>and some additional time to bring any non-compliant installed base into compliance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What is the timeframe for this? And does non-compliant base mean n-case and/or currently installed applications(Zango and/or n-case)?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>is now demanding as to the behavior and conduct of adware <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Does this mean enforcement with true consequences for noncompliance?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>if not, can be brought into compliance in a timely manner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Any thoughts as to what a timely manner is?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>we welcome feedback and information that you may come across with regards to Metrics Direct (or any other adware participating in the LinkShare Network). In this regard, LinkShare is also always open to hearing from and working with the other affiliate marketing service providers as to any issues they have discovered or are aware of in regards to any adware working in our space. Of course, LinkShare will need to be able to verify the authenticity of any conduct that is being alleged, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What is the specific process that LS requires for providing the feedback and information? What are the types of information that LS needs to see if misconduct is being alleged? IOW, what is the process and data that LS needs in order for the process to be as accurate and efficeint as possible both for LS and the person bringing concerns to LS. I wouldn't think that LS would particularly find it helpful for just a support ticket from claiming "180 (or whoever) is doing whatever."

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>will keep you updated as we proceed.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Please do. I truly believe that the community understanding and knowing what is happening (even when they may not agree with it 100%) is far better than not knowing.

  8. #8
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    Stephen,

    If they know of rogue installs, they can identify the installs by their parent affiliate id. Why do they continue to feed data and keep those installs active? They actively know those installs are "spoiled", they admit to not paying their affiliates on these misbegotten installs, they admit they can track all of the misbegotten installs and activity and yet they still keep them active in the system.

    So until those installs are made inactive, and data stop being fed to them to keep them active. I do not see how you can consider them in compliance. They will always just use the excuse of "bad affiliates" for silent installs and worse.

    Check the tommy180 thread, he admits to it, and offers the excuse that to turn off the software that they know the end user never requested - would violate the end users privacy. It is hard for me to even type that without laughing, how can you support it?

    Chet

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> not interfere with LinkShare Affiliate referrals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So, any other affiliate link is fair game and you could care less what happens to a link from another network or an indy, right?

    Stinks any way you look at it.

    You lay down with dogs, expect to rise up with fleas. In this case, I think you are laying down with a green monkey. You deserve what you rise up with.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  10. #10
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    One more question even though I went over my "couple" in the first post.

    You say you are bringing the new terms to all the adware affiliates. What is the realistic timeframe LS foresees to do this and have them either sign off or not as was the case with the Addendum? And then the timeframe for them to attempt to bring themselves into compliance with the revised terms? Will LS be working with all the adware affiliates concurrently on this or on a one by one basis? Timewise that is.

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You should know that Metrics Direct, then 180 Solutions, signed our Anti-Predatory Advertising Addendum about a year ago. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, like most of us, they did not respect it.
    What are you going to do about it?
    The less you can do is to credit the commissions stolen by 180 Solutions and their partners to the right affiliates. You have been paid, NOT US.

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thanks Stephen for bringing us starving affiliate slaves a loaf of bread and a promise to cure the evil forces roosting in the affiliate industry. Currently the only protected domain from the intrusion of a n-case/Zango popup is http://www.metricsdirect.com/About/AboutMetrics.aspx

    Read that page carefully as well as the message and spin intent of all their web site properties. Stephen you know these wanks and their ilk of sleezebag junk traffic trickers back from the 1990's. If you didn't think you could rely on the shafted domain bound affiliate force gutted by the .com bombs you have kicked all incnet marketers to the curb in Y-2000. Instead you and the other networks worked like busy beavers building a secret weapons program to cookie/monitize all traffic to any merchants web site.

    Zango offers compelling partnership opportunities that will help you build scalable revenue channels, to monetize your traffic, content, or applications. (Surf to Earn expanded into Infestation fee money)

    MetricsDirect was founded in June of 1999 with one mission: To create technologies that deliver the right marketing message to the right people at the right time: targeted, contextual marketing. (forget SE and page building hassles attack at the POINT OF SALE ....ps we don't give a rats ass who's cash register we attack)

    180solutions is a leading provider of Internet search marketing solutions. We provide search assistant software that delivers consumers to highly targeted websites on behalf of advertisers when they are searching the Internet for products or services.

    180solutions is dedicated to providing value to advertisers as well as consumers. Not only does 180solutions offer advertisers the best ROI of any online advertising solution, we also offer our consumers the latest applications, a better way to search online and an entire network of free online content in exchange for using our applications. (basically we hijack the internet SE users choice function and redirect all our infected users systems to our 6000 Adwhores. Sleezebag affiliates are welcome to select 500 competitors to swap cookie with as a reveshare partner)

    n-CASE is a small application that is downloaded to your computer and runs in the background looking to show websites with information, offers and products that match keywords you are looking for when either shopping or searching online. (deceptive drive-by install BHO trojan horse adware program bragging 200 million hidden installs.)

    Now Stephen ask yourself after allowing these same theftware wanks to secretly operate at LS for 4 years how they have managed to even get banned from Google.

    Frightening is the rise in infestations coming from other BHO DUPER's too...

    HotBar.com Oren Dobronsky,226w 37st Floor 11,New York, NY,10018 ...212 5608940 212 5608953
    support@hotbar.com #11 on Alexia

    Offeroptomizer.com Alan Murray,100 E 81th Street
    New York, NY,10026 phone +1 917 853 3254 now #8 on Alexia

    LOL....# 17 & 18 are Gator and Searchscout.com while poor old WhenU comes in as #68. All their traffic come from pissed off shoppers trying to find out how to rid their systems of this drive-by install or Freebee bundled crap. Bet they get some nice e-mail complaints that should be CC to Stephen and the other network CEO's....and the FTC

    Hey Ms.B are the N-case/180Solutions -Gator and WhenU popups still lighting up EcomCity.com? I left off my shields for 2 weeks last February and ended up with over 20 driveby installs eventually crashing my browser with their infernal intrustive popups and browser redirects to scrape off the surfing habits to the IAB/DMA Adwhores. Needless to say if I ever bought anything from my Cybermall links I'd get nada for commissions.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  13. #13
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    Ok lots to answer, and clearly I will work on a post to try to attempt to answer all your questions, but many should really be brought out in a separate forum board. This post was about a new way for us to work in cooperation. What we learned (or thought we learned) from the titanium award is that some of you have done different tests to discover problems that may exist out on the network. While sometimes we did not see what you saw, or did different tests, we where able to use your information to do independent verification once we knew what you where doing.

    I have read above what you all think about 180, but I am asking in this post that if you have examples of tests that you have performed, and that I can recreate then we can work with 180 to fix the issues, and then if they do not fix these errors we will take appropriate steps. That was really all I was asking for.

    Please remember, we are not a government agency so I cannot fix all your problems, as much as I would love that. All I can do is make sure that our T&C's are being adhered to. If you would like to help, and feel strongly, please let us know what you have seen so we can work on getting it fixed. I am trying to give you a mechanism to turn all your efforts into solutions for our industry.

    If this does not work we will continue to work on this on our own. To be frank, I was hoping this would be a bit more productive then turn into a negative spiral. I still have not seen any post, and I have not gotten any PM on what activity you see going on in violation of our terms and how we can recreate it. If you do have something PM me so we can test it.

    Hope all is well,
    Steve

  14. #14
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    As noted in the 180 thread regarding the distribution and reward scheme of these applications, it is reliant upon "marketers" providing the install and uninstall routines.

    This scenario as I'm sure you're aware leads to not only drive by downloads but difficulties in uninstalling the application. Frankly, I can't see how these installs will ever become compliant and even worse, many rouge applications will likely never be upgraded in this respect.

    IMO, the download/distribution system implemented where 180/Solutions/Metrics does not provide an uninstall routine that is effective leads me to believe their software will never be in compliance as long as this distribution model is supported.

    If Linkshare really wants to commit to taking a stand against browser spam, it can not support a distribution scheme where marketers are rewarded for doing drive by installs and making uninstalltion of programs difficult.

    You must implement changes in your policies to address this because the current system directly rewards unethical behavior, encourages drive by dowloads and only increases consumer frustations (on being infected as well as difficulties in uninstallation). Any system with a distribution plan as they use will never be in compliance, will only lead to further frustations and most likely tons of rouge software out there that can't or wont ever be upgraded should compliance changes be needed.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    The best thing you can do Stephen is to kick them all to the curbs right now, the public backlash has already started and will not slow down until this crap is no longer popping up on their computers, no longer causing their computers to slow down and crash and no longer causing confusion. Every computer I see has it, and every computer I remove it from makes someone happy and educated about how to get rid of it. People do not want this software, period. The more distance you put between yourself and it, the better for Linkshare. Quit seeing the dollar signs "they bring in", that money will eventually show up in your coffers anyway, just from the correct channels, not the software. We don't want to work with them, you do and some merchants do.

    Make the break now, before you become synonymous with spyware, adware, etc. You want productive affiliates, get rid of the software and I guarantee everyone here will be adding pages for Linkshare almost immediately.

  16. #16
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    They already are synonymous with 'spyware'. It is only a matter of time before the lawmakers direct their attention on the network enablers, and the search engines, Norton (etc.), and isps start seriously blocking their links.

    Anyways, was there anything new in this announcement? What I got from it is:

    1) that they have a new deadline,

    2) they are allowed to interfere with affiliate links,

    3) LS is backing off its public endorsement of 180solutions (tommy will be heartbroken, but I am sure he can live with it),

    and 4) if we see any violations we should tell LS and they will see if they can duplicate the results.

    Most of it appears to be an attempt to distance the network from the 180 in light of increased attention from lawmakers and certain advertisers.

  17. #17
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    I would like to see what is going to happen once Ben Edelman finishes his article about 180Solutions software.
    The thread is Here

    Someone delving deep enough should be able to find out what is going on.

    I just hope that money is not driving the Linkshare decisions. Although I am sure things would be different if this was a smaller company who didn't make much money

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Get a grip on it Stephen, since your well aware of the LS share on income going to the browser hijacker/spammers. Only you know which of the 260 varieties of BHO's operating under multiple names Work hand in hand with the LS's internal AM firm and those of your major merchants. The other networks have their own stats too to share in another emergency pow-pow you guys need to have ASAP.

    Reality is that 300 million active shoppers systems have been infested and re-infested by these B-a-HO affiliates. The FEDs, Interpol and States cybercrime units are following a eye opening money trail using every tool at their disposal. Don't be surprised when they come knocking on your door with subpoenas to examine your check cutting records back to Y-2000 to the BHO operators and their sleezebag minions.

    I just know that 90% of my shoppers are infected with 20+ Adware/spyware programs and they'll be bombarded by incent offerings at the Point of sale and get spamm e-mail followups. The Feds are working on the synergy of the scrapped privacy info -network sales information scraping -phishing sites -e-mail spammers all tied into hidden BHO adware/spyware installs. They then match the common IP cross over points and organization names showing up on the money trail.

    The money funneled from network merchants is so good the same programmers giving us the Adware/spyware are resorting to full blown Trojan Horse server viruses as infestation is now the name of the game in affiliate marketing. Muzzling the friggin poorman's BHO cookie stuffing tricks via a LS TOS change was just a taste of liberal politics stinking up this world. How many heads rolled on the thousands of LS affiliates still doing that trick daily making our cookies worthless.


    The sleezebag spammers at the SERP source coupled with the BHO POS attack dogs guarantees my income plummeted over the last 2 years. I don't employ any tricks for cookie setting tricks and the current system guarantees I'd starve if I relied upon affiliate income.

    You act as if those subpoenas aren't coming and the Feds under pressure from voters, Microsoft and the SE industry are going to allow ebiz as usual for these perps. You and the IAB/DMA are sadly mistaken if your brain child to create a non-domain bound incented affiliate force sucking bucks from merchants wide open Ad budgets will win at the end of the day.

    The enduser getting compromised by gorilla marketers has a say in this and their voice is screaming. Pay me $10,000 and you'll have a 100% shopper and affiliate/merchant friendly parallel Sales Network to build on when the real crap hits the fan.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  19. #19
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    well, I've received the bread and it looks like the circus has begun . . .

    would someone author a proper title that catches the eye so we can start a new thread to continue this [insert something to your taste] subject? a thread that would be extremely educational to newbies and others that don't normally frequent this forum?

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Here's the blower that will clear the air of the network smokescreens protecting their BHO's.

    The gigs up on the affiliate browser spammers and their AM buddies using any and all forms of infestation to suck bucks from duped merchant's pocketbooks.

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/technolo...ogy-198826.htm

    .....Earlier this month, a related security breach surreptitiously installed an adware toolbar into IE on thousands of computers worldwide, and the expectation is that the technique will quickly become widespread.

    "There are a number of significant vulnerabilities in technologies" relating to the Internet Explorer, according to US-CERT (U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team), based in Pittsburgh. "It is possible to reduce exposure to these vulnerabilities by using a different web browser, especially when browsing untrusted sites."

    Switching browsers is one of the options, CERT said; other alternatives include disabling some special scripting capabilities of the browser or setting Internet Explorer's settings to much higher levels.

    None of the most prominent alternative browsers, Opera (www.opera.com), www.Mozilla.org , or Netscape (www.netscape.com), are vulnerable to the flaw. Nor are computers running Linux or the Macintosh operating system. Linux in particular has become increasingly popular for its relative freedom from security problems.

    Ulrich and other experts say the new round of malware deliberately assumes a less aggressive profile. It doesn't spread a quickly as traditional computer viruses, and is more focused on stealing or making money for its authors. That creates a whole new round of problems for PC security companies, who spot new forms of malware by surveying hundreds of thousands of Pcs. "If you steal a thousand bucks from a thousand people," he said, "you'll probably stay beneath the radar."

    Also see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06...alware_attack/

    and http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16922
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  21. #21
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    I can see how starting numerous threads about the same topic is going to help!

    NOT!

    The only thing changing a thread accomplishes is not giving everyone an opportunity to READ in its entirety the scope of the message.


    Personally I am sick of the 25 threads concerning the same damn topic. Granted I can understand breaking off when there are 20 pages worth of stuff, but come on people if you don’t like the title simply change the darned title – A Mod or Haiko can help in that area Geeezeee.

    STOP BOUNCING!

  22. #22
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> To be frank, I was hoping this would be a bit more productive then turn into a negative spiral. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hello, I think the negativity would be substantially reduced if you could put forward the business purpose to continue to doing business with those companies. Especially in the interim period before they are required to comply.

    Regards

  23. #23
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    When I first read Stephen's announcement, I felt like I should be happy about it. I mean, it IS a good thing, right? But I don't feel so wonderful about it, and I think it's because this represents yet another instance where an affiliate who uses software download apps is being given the opportunity to make corrections.

    It's as if the networks have rolled out the red carpet for these perps! The software app affiliates prevent everyone else in the network from doing business in a normal, competitive environment, and here again they are being given special consideration.

    When does everyone else get this "special consideration"? Time and again, certain affiliates are caught breaking the rules, and they are given a chance to make corrections, without any penalties!

    When do they have to give back their ill-gotten commissions? Have they ever been forced to return commissions that weren't rightfully theirs? I don't think so.

    And what is this about different testing procedures you weren't aware of? A few minutes spent reading ABW will show lots of documentation, if you want to know how it was done, PM the person and ASK! I assume someone at LS knows how to send a PM...

    This just seems like more smoke being blown you know where...the networks need to put some teeth into their policies and ENFORCE THEM!

    Many may consider this a good step forward, but I think it's too little, too late. I think LS is still reeling from the latest fiasco - the award - and what we're really getting is good ole PR spin.

    I don't think it's going to work, LS. Take a good hard look at how these people do business, and see how long it takes you to come up with the justification to continue doing business with them.

    Forced downloads - keylogging - impossible to delete from computers - pop ups - pop unders - registry changes - computer problems...

    Where does it end? What does it take for a network to not work with these clowns? Legislation? Well, that's coming - not soon enough in my opinion.

    I guess I now understand why I'm not happy about this. It all makes sense now. It's shameful that this is allowed to continue, and that the people who could put a stop to it seem dead set on doing as little as possible.

    When the parasites are booted out of LS for once and for all, THAT will be A NEW APPROACH. Until then, anything less is just a waste of time.

    Andy

  24. #24
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    3,219
    I am so glad affiliates are using Linkshare, CJ and Befree LESS and LESS. When the Networks start booting the parasites and spammers then and only then will I give them serious consideration.

    Its always a good day when I can show a merchant how to build there own affiliate program without spending 5K to get it started. It’s even more enjoyable to introduce them here to ABW so they can obtain SERIOUS affiliates without having to weed through the trashy affiliates smothered at Linkshare, CJ and Befree!

  25. #25
    Affiliate Network Rep
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    352
    OK a lot said, but all I keep asking for is to help us prove that what you all say is happening. As for Ben, I would prefer not to go into his partnership (if you can call it that) approach although if he has the data that proves the case then I will be most interested in that.
    With all the anger in these posts I would expect that someone can show me an example. I mean with the cookie stuffing issue we where able to learn a lot from you and find better tests that we had not thought of. On this board all I see is venting with no substance to back it up. I know that is not what you may have intended and I have to believe that there is a reason for it, but I have gotten no PM's on the issue or seen anything here.
    I came here not to start a screaming match but because we learned a lot from you, our incredible partners with the cookie issue and I thought we could start to create a working partnership on other issues that may negatively impact us all.
    In the end how we work together is always your call, but this discussion is going no where. If you want to seriously do something other then blame everyone then what better chance then an offer from me to work together. I don't see any other network, or indie players (regardless of how small these are) offering that.

    Please calm down for a moment and see this as a hand reaching out in partnership. You can slap it away or grab it. Its now in your hands. I have done all I can to work together.
    Best regards as always,
    Steve

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