Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 82
  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    LinkShare President and CEO Stephen Messer said his company has sought an industry-wide solution to the problem of stolen commissions. He said that other major players in the affiliate marketing space declined to sign an initiative the company drafted to ban suspicious affiliates from the major networks, which, he said, is a major reason they persist today. "People try to build a business around what they can get away with," he said.

    LinkShare has its own addendum, which all affiliates must sign in order to become a part of the network. Messer acknowledged that the company in question had somehow slipped through the cracks, having not signed the addendum.

    LinkShare has not kicked TheDesktopShopper.com out of its network, and is currently working with the company on how best to proceed. Messer said that LinkShare prefers to negotiate with first-time alleged offenders rather than see them leave the LinkShare network for another competing affiliate network. To date, the company has kicked out a number of other companies, according to Messer.

    Analysts in the affiliate market space say that the mishap points to an ever-widening rift between affiliates and affiliate network providers such as LinkShare, Commission Junction, and Performics.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Full Article - http://www.mediapost.com/dtls_dsp_ne...?newsId=272087
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,158
    How is it possible that the didn't sign it? What a crock of shit. I get the feeling car sales was in Mister Messer's past.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    65
    Wait one minute. I thought every one who is software HAD to sign their Addendum thing. How come these people never had to sign it?

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,511
    To me, the lack of signing the Addendum isn't the issue at all. I could care less about that. The issue is that Linkshare did no due diligence before paying out the award.

    Simply going to the website and seeing that it's nothing more than a link farm would raise a huge red flag, not to mention what is the source of such a significant increase in sales over the short period required to earn the award.

    This issue needs much more attention than from an industry publication. It merits prominent attention in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and every other major publication. It's nothing short of white collar crime. Color it however you want; it's theft.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Affiliateville, USA
    Posts
    7,927
    Haiko,

    Thanks.

    It should have been Mr. Messer coming here with this information, but I appreciate your keeping abreast of this type of thing and keeping us informed.

    Much Appreciated!!!
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  6. #6
    15 years and counting
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    6,121
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> LinkShare has not kicked TheDesktopShopper.com out of its network, and is currently working with the company on how best to proceed. Messer said that LinkShare prefers to negotiate with first-time alleged offenders rather than see them leave the LinkShare network for another competing affiliate network. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I like Mr. Messer to give us an explanation about that.
    If he keep them, I want him to pay us ALL THE STOLEN COMMISSIONS during the time the award was running.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,118
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Analysts in the affiliate market space say that the mishap points to an ever-widening rift between affiliates and affiliate network providers such as LinkShare, Commission Junction, and Performics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Who are these 'analysts'? And what do they base their findings on?

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Affiliateville, USA
    Posts
    7,927
    A few choice words come to mind right now, but one just has to ask, "Who is minding the store at Linkshare?"

    If they are screwing up this badly on important stuff like this, why would merchants or affiliates want to join or stay with them?

    It's a sad, sad day to see all this happening. I like the way LS has set up their online program (meaning I like the way I navigate through their site getting links and reports) and I have a couple of merchants there that I do well with, but at this point I have no desire to look at any others and I'd be tickled pink if my two good merchants moved to another network.

    This is just unbelievable!
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    64
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowman:
    To me, the lack of signing the Addendum isn't the issue at all. I could care less about that. The issue is that Linkshare did no due diligence before paying out the award.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Surely the issue is that LS allows this affiliate to operate in the manner they did, in violation of their Terms?

    The award is only the vehicle by which the world found out that LS's compliance checking is at best, pitifully inadequate, at worst non-existent.

    Personally, I'm delighted that, as long as they harbour cheats, they publicly make awards to them so that the rest of us can find out who they're working with. Then, in the absense of any inhouse compliance audits at LS, the affiliate community can do their own audit.

    Giving thedesktopshooper the award is the only reason that LS is now taking the heat that it is.

    Only God and LS knows why they would choose to do things in such a fabulously inept manner. But until they can do compliance checking themselves, I say to Mr Messer - start at the top, award it to each affiliate in turn, accompanied by a press release. That way, we will know if, some day, your compliance team shows up for work.

    This is where it's really at: (from the article linked above)
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    But as Edelman noted, the problem isn't necessarily a lack of sufficient rules. "What's most needed," he said, "is real enforcement"--adding that "the networks have no incentive to enforce the rules--they only lose financially if they enforce the rules, and so far they've largely gotten away with looking the other way, notwithstanding the resulting harm to merchants."
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In the same article Mr Messer is quoted as saying:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    LinkShare prefers to negotiate with first-time alleged offenders rather than see them leave the LinkShare network for another competing affiliate network.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Funny how that's almost exactly what Edelman said!

    Are affiliates and/or merchants sufficiently pi**ed at LS yet to sink their boat by leaving LS? Either one would do, but I suspect the answer is - not yet, apathy and inertia are wonderful things!

    As an addendum, I'll bet that this is the last time we will see LS making any awards of this nature. Mr Messer says he prefers to keep working with these people and the only way he can do that is to keep quiet about it.

    It's a fair bet that LS's top affiliate is always going to be dodgy and that even LS will eventually realise the monumental stupidity involved in trumpeting that fact to the world.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    in the PhillyBurbs!
    Posts
    3,097
    Ron:

    Sadly, it is all too believable. I'm not going to get into a flame about LS, but, well ... 'nuff said.

    As Hunter S. Thompson often said: The thing speaks for itself.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,118
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It's a fair bet that LS's top affiliate is always going to be dodgy and that even LS will eventually realise the monumental stupidity involved in trumpeting that fact to the world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They are showing that now; apparently they can't even find another top affiliate to give the award to.

    It must be hard for Linkshare to find a clean affiliate.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    64
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbo2002:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It's a fair bet that LS's top affiliate is always going to be dodgy and that even LS will eventually realise the monumental stupidity involved in trumpeting that fact to the world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They are showing that now; apparently they can't even find another top affiliate to give the award to.

    It must be hard for Linkshare to find a clean affiliate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No - they'll get to me eventually. It'll take a while yet though - I'm a long way down the list

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,118
    It's been about two weeks (10 working days), right?

    If they took their time about it, they could review five sites a day.

    Does that mean the top 50 affiliates were dirty?

  14. #14
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    As Stephen announced in the other thread, they contacted me to review the sites of potential replacements. I provided my full report to them yesterday. So up til now, the hold up has been me.

  15. #15
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,219
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLFH (Ms. B):
    As Stephen announced in the other thread, they contacted me to review the sites of potential replacements. I provided my full report to them yesterday. So up til now, the hold up has been me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Are you saying it took you 10 days to find a suitable awardable site?

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Affiliateville, USA
    Posts
    7,927
    Ms. B,

    That explains the delay for the award announcement, but does not excuse them for not answering all the other issues that have been brought up.

    Mr. Messer was just hoping this would all go away and be forgotten I think.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    57
    He said that other major players in the affiliate marketing space declined to sign an initiative the company drafted to ban suspicious affiliates from the major networks.

    Messer is trying to say Linkshare leads by example and based on recent events it's obviously not true.

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Stephen and the other network CEO's were carried AbestWeb's A-G 7 steps to establishing ethics back into affiliate marketing via a CoC agreement....November 10th 2001. Three years later everyone of those steps still apply, and if not adopted these abuses of honest merchant AM's and domain bound affiliates will continue to dominate this industry.

    Sure the CoC tried to level the playing field like LS's addendium did. The reality is they took the normal sized football field and shrunk into a 10 yard by 10 yard playing surface. Then recruited a team of 300 lb gorrilla marketers against the opposing team's cheerleading squad and removed the referees.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  19. #19
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    Goodness folks. I have not had the info of what to check for 10 days. I'm not sure where the 10 days thing came from. I recieved the information last Tuesday. I pushed other work aside to make what time I could to do this as soon as possible because I knew people would want to see the alternative winner asap. No conclusions should be drawn regarding my findings of suitable site(s) and the length of time it took me. It's nothing more than my schedule.

    Ron, I was only explaining the delay since folks were drawing conclusions from it. I'm not making excuses for any of the other issues that you and others brought up.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Affiliateville, USA
    Posts
    7,927
    Ms. B,

    Oh, I know that. Sure hope I did not imply something other than that.

    We are all very thankful for all you are doing. A little communication on LS's part during this period would have been good PR.

    I was refering to the other issues outside of the award system that still go unanswered (and probably will, it seems). Again, bad PR for a company that desperately needs some good PR in order to retain merchants and affiliates.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,511
    I couldn't give a damn who the new winner is. I just want to know that steps are being taken to identify the offenders and KICK THEM OUT! None of this working with a first time offender to bring them into compliance. It's not like they didn't know exactly what they were doing and they rode the networks' looking the other way and took advantage of it to the max.

    It is a freakin sad commentary that Messer and his gang drew up this agreement that he just loves to tout and he doesn't even have a single employee who knows what the heck they are doing to enforce the agreement.

    Just more of the hot air Messer has spewed from Day 1.

    Thank you, Ms. B, for your efforts. For godsake, they are needed.

  22. #22
    Internet Cowboy
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,662
    Ms. B,
    When you get LinkShare rid of at least MOST of these thieves, would you please let me know?
    LinkShare has a lot of good merchants, many of which I am confident that I would do very well with, but I have grown a distrust of Messer and his band of thieves that I simply can't shake.

    Messer comes in here talking out of both sides of his mouth, expecting us to be patient while LinkShare runs their "tests" on these merchants to decide whether or not they are crooked. Then, they go right back and give $15,000 to one of them. You would think that when they were running these tests before they would have learned enough about testing to have been able to expose desktopshopper with minimal investigation before they awarded them $15,000.

    I really don't know if Messer is a thief in a banker outfit or if he is simply an idiot, both or neither.

    Either way, I am not apt to put forth any effort until LinkShare can clean up their act and prove that they have their head completely out of their ass.

    I don't know you, Ms. B, but your reputation here speaks well for you. I really hope you can get these people headed in the right direction.

    Thanks

    Scott


  23. #23
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Central/Western NY State
    Posts
    7,741
    I don't think Ms. B's charter was to overhaul the system, just maybe to pass/fail on potential winners.

  24. #24
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    11,273
    I'm going to repeat what I said last time

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Surely the issue is that LS allows this affiliate to operate in the manner they did, in violation of their Terms? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    EACH Merchant can have their OWN terms, these terms take precedance OVER linkshare terms. If merchant A says they will allow 180 or DTS to operate in their program, then that is a choice they can take.

    The issue with the Titanium award is seperate to this as it has specific terms and conditions and ,to the best of my knowledge, participating Merchant terms and conditions have been violated.

    It is the responsibility of Each merchant to review the partnerships they set up.

    LinkShare has to my knowledge 2 addendums, the first from 2 years ago, the second that was created after the 180 issue.

    The second is presented to Software Based affiliates on a one by one basis.

    LinkShare does not vet the affiliates that sign up, it is reactive not proactive, there are affiliates kicked out on a daily basis, I can merrily post a list but that'd probably violate someones privacy. Most are kicked out for fraud, some for other issues.

    Ultimately it's up to you to select which merchants you want to work with and to read THEIR terms carefully, if their terms don't explicitly state that an affiliate may not use Application based systems then you should either not promote that merchant or contact the merchant to educate them.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Affiliate Marketing by AMWSO. Skype - chrissanderson ::: TEL 1-720-336-1784 ::: www.amwso.net
    Join our affiliate programs :Vaper Empire, Iolo, Art of Tea, or See ALL our Programs here

  25. #25
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't think Ms. B's charter was to overhaul the system, just maybe to pass/fail on potential winners. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Correct Herb. BTW, I always smile when I read your sig.

    Chris' description of how things currently work is very on point.

    My own personal thoughts on this are that what has happened as far as the Titanium Award and the other issues being brought up in regards to what really boils down to monitoring and enforcing of compliance is not specific to LS. I'm not saying this as excusing what has happened with all of this.

    However, for me this is just symptomatic of issues that desparately need to be addressed in a meaningful way throughtout the Industry, not just LS. I saw several Network links on DTS's website. I've seen time and time again awards/bonuses and contests being won by 'questionable' affiliates.

    If LS does follow through with vetting their Titanium Awards better in the future, that is great and needed. If LS makes positive steps in the future regarding monitoring and enforcement that is great and needed. However, the issues need to continue to be recognized, understood and addressed across the whole Industry. And not only when something happens which is high profile and public.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 2008 LinkShare Golden Link Award Finalists
    By Trust in forum Rakuten LinkShare - LS
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: July 1st, 2008, 12:05 PM
  2. For Third Time, LinkShare Awards, Revokes Suspected Fraudster
    By Haiko de Poel, Jr. in forum Rakuten LinkShare - LS
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: October 28th, 2004, 01:26 PM
  3. Linkshare - do this with your Titanium award!
    By Ebudae in forum Rakuten LinkShare - LS
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 19th, 2004, 08:59 AM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: October 6th, 2004, 12:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •