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  1. #1
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    Don't you just love that?

    A big commission is reversed.

    Not due to an invalid credit card.

    Not due to a return.

    Not due to a duplicate order.

    The reason is OTHER.

    And we should just happily accept it as a valid reason!

    This was my first sale with them, too

  2. #2
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    Sucks eh?

    I had a $400+ sale reversed by Junonia earlier this month (sale was from 2 months earlier). Reason - Other.

    Other should not be allowed.



    Download Site Map Creator Today

  3. #3
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    AND the merchants will not respond to inquiries.

  4. #4
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    You can't blame people for complaining about these reversals.

    However, what's the real issue here? Is it that there are merchants reversing sales for invalid reasons? Or, is it that your 3rd party does not enforce accountability of the advertiser?

    3rd party agencies are supposed to provide more than just a technical solution for merchants and affiliates.

    If you keep switching merchants because of their poor reversal practices, but still use the same 3rd party, you show support of a system that is designed to provide total accountability for the advertiser, but not of the advertiser.

    Question: If you purchased a Brand-X item from the store and found it to be faulty, then, were unable to return it, would you go back to purchase a Brand-A product from the same store after learning about their poor return policy? Maybe the Brand-A product never breaks. But what if it does? Who should you be more upset with, the poor manufacturer, the store that didn't stand behind the product they sold you, or yourself for still shopping there?

    I don't know about you but, when I get a bad steak at a restaurant, I don't complain about the farmer, I eat somewhere else.

    Joe Flores
    "Profitman"
    Affiliate Manager
    www.AffiliateFuel.com
    jflores@affiliatefuel.com

  5. #5
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    Profitman . . . perfect

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    Get while the getting's good

  6. #6
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    quote:

    I had a $400+ sale reversed by Junonia earlier this month (sale was from 2 months earlier). Reason - Other.

    Other should not be allowed.


    Junonia, huh? I liked them because they convert well, but their extensions seem to be eternal. I was hoping they'd pay me this month, but no

    Profitman: nice post, but since my traffic doesn't reach 2,000 uniques daily on any of my sites, Affiliate Fuel is not an option for me.

  7. #7
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    Im reading this thread, and what I dont get is one comment about extensions being eternal, "they convert well....." but I havent gotten a check.

    Another writes, No replys to emails either..

    This is a shame.....

  8. #8
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    If you read between the lines "other" means "you sucker".

    We've got to devise a way to put all the sucker affiliates out of business so these crook merchants don't flourish.

  9. #9
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    quote:
    I don't know about you but, when I get a bad steak at a restaurant, I don't complain about the farmer, I eat somewhere else.

    Unfortunately, most of the other restaurants in the area only have vegetables on their menu. Even a bad steak fills the tummy more than some carrots that's been cooking way too long.

  10. #10
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kelly626:
    If you read between the lines "other" means "you sucker".

    We've got to devise a way to put all the sucker affiliates out of business so these crook merchants don't flourish.


    ----
    -JM

  11. #11
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    The reason for my statement is "other".

    No further explanation.

  12. #12
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    Did you write to them and ask them about the reversal? If they don't respond within a couple of days, shame on them. They don't deserve your promoting them if they can't respond with an explanation.

    Often times, the biggest sales are the bogus ones placed with stolen credit cards. It stinks as a merchant because the affiliate is the most suspicious of a large reversal. Hardly anyone would complain about a $2.00 reversal, but take away $50.00 and watch out...

    If they are responsive, invite them to ABW. After being on ABW, I learned to send an e-mail every time I have to reverse something. I get a "Thanks for the explanation" reply just about every time.

    Scott Marino
    WebUndies.com

    CJ ~ 12% commission / 60 day cookies / unlimited actions / parasite free

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    There really is no need for a reason of "Other" to even be available to merchants when they reverse a transaction.

    The list provided seems fairly complete, and for those times "Other" is used, it should be mandatory that they fill in a text box with an explanation that the affiliate can see.

    Maybe they're just being lazy, and don't care what reason they click on, maybe they can't read. Who knows. Maybe they're also lying, cheating, thieving scumbags too.

    "Other" is not an adequate reason. You'd think CJ would have tended to this during one of their many recent updates.

    Andy

    _______________
    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  14. #14
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Scott Marino:
    Did you write to them and ask them about the reversal? If they don't respond within a couple of days, shame on them. They don't deserve your promoting them if they can't respond with an explanation.



    Yes I did. The reversal happened on Friday, so I hope they respond on Monday.


    quote:

    If they are responsive, invite them to ABW. After being on ABW, I learned to send an e-mail every time I have to reverse something. I get a "Thanks for the explanation" reply just about every time.



    I'll invite them if they respond. I agree that this is a wonderful place for both affiliates and merchants to get to know each other, learn and grow together.

  15. #15
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Scott Marino:
    If they don't respond within a couple of days, shame on them.
    oh well that settles it! "Shame on them"! Cause we all know that "shame on them" puts food on our tables and clothing on our backs.

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Realistically what does it cost CJ in programming or bandwidth for a text box that would allow the advertiser to explain what "other" actually was?

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  17. #17
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    "It stinks as a merchant because the affiliate is the most suspicious of a large reversal."

    Although, the merchant truly stinks when most every large sale is reversed (especially for invalid cc) and smaller sales get approved.

    Say 10 of 20 sales in a month are large sales, and most of 10 large ones get reversed for invalid credit cards.

    What's wrong with this picture is that the merchant is experiencing incredibly higher than average credit card fraud...and in light/relative to an affiliate's other 99 merchants, this merchant is the only one that this is happening to in many instances (just a senario - although based on real personal experiences)

    The affiliate is then pretty sure under such circumstances that the merchant is falsifying reports.

    What alot of merchants don't expect is that smart affiliates run their own merchant compliance department ...and in my case it's pretty strict.

    If it is a merchant you value... other than the recent high reversals, always be sure and e-mail them about the situation. If they value you in return, you should then see a drastic decrease in reversals thereafter. I've experienced this with quite a few new merchants on board over the years.

    Here's what will most likely happen if they respond back (concerning reason "other"): They tell you something like the address the customer gave was incorrect and they couldn't deliver. They waited awhile for the customer to respond back but they never did. Stuff like that.

    Not in all cases should you conclude that because they didn't get right back to you that they must be guilty. If they have someone in charge of ripping affiliates off, that person is also paid to respond with BS to every affiliate's complaint.

    So, responsiveness can be a complete irony, and totally worthless in coming to conclusions.

    CJ knew these kind of posts would increase after they did away with charge back data. What wasn't counted on is the fact that everyone will now get a much better education than those numbers and graphs could ever give.

  18. #18
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    There was absolutley no reason to do away with the merchant reversals reporing in previous versions of the manager. Not reporting the reversals percentage only benefits the merchant (and hurts the affilaite).

    Apollo

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    History has shown me that certain CJ merchant AM's will always scrape off large sales from the report totals. Hell I've had PcMall and eHobbies go back as far as 8 months and cancel large sales for the reason other. Some like Bonsai Boys just wipe out the sale before they batch the report.

    This month I saw a 2248.00 sale for Essential Apparel. My take immediately was this had to be a purchase from a bad credit card. Sure enough the next day when it was to ship here comes the reversals ...reason bad CC. Perfectly reasonable with no red flags as Akiva plays no games with commissions. I trust only him and Rick at JC Whitney from my pool of 184 CJ merchants.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  20. #20
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Haiko:
    Realistically what does it cost CJ in programming or bandwidth for a text box that would allow the advertiser to explain what "other" actually was?



    If CJ ever posts a wish-list for one of their upgrades, let's make sure this gets on it. Posting a note explaining the reason for the reversal is a reasonable step and that is the best place to do it.

    Of course, it still won't fix the merchants whose sites don't validate credit cards before accepting sales and those who don't implement decent in-house fraud prevention methods. At least it will make it easier for those of us that do.

    Scott Marino
    WebUndies.com

    CJ ~ 12% commission / 60 day cookies / unlimited actions / parasite free

  21. #21
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    Other = Better in my pocket than yours

  22. #22
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    In addition to the damage caused to affiliates by this lack of accountability, every merchant who does not participate in these kinds of poor reversal practices should be furious about each and every impression that is shown for their competitors by affiliates who, had they known better, would promote the honest merchant instead. Not only does this poor policy take advantage of the affiliates, but it steals business from merchants who have legitimately good programs and integrity.

    Haiko pointed out that there is little to no additional cost in providing a solution to the problem and, while I agree with Scott about the wishlist, they have to have received a ton of correspondence regarding this issue. Anyone who does not take this as a slap in the face is giving them way too much credit.

    Again, complaining about the advertisers is to criticize the symptom, not the problem.

    Joe Flores
    "Profitman"
    Affiliate Manager
    www.AffiliateFuel.com
    jflores@affiliatefuel.com

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