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  1. #1
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    I think not being able to see how much reversing a company is doing is really bad business practice - some merchants seem to reverse practically every transaction - why doesn't CJ show us this anymore?

    We need a way to keep the b**tards honest - right now I know that any commission I receive that is $20 or more is going to disappear again in the next few days.

    Can we do a petition or something? Or am I just the one person who is experiencing this?

  2. #2
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    Try the new feature at CJ, Payment Status, and (View Payment History), then date of last payment sent.
    You get a global vision for the month of how you perform with a merchant. You can check how much money you made, how much was reversed for invalid CC, returned merchandises, others...
    It helps to make decision, on the daily report you can't see the whole picture. I had a few bad surprises with some merchants and good ones for others.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  3. #3
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    quote:
    Or am I just the one person who is experiencing this?


    I've found that with some merchants, it's exactly as you describe--high ticket sales disappear. Those merchants didn't waste any time in getting re-acquainted with the reversal button!

    But others have been 100% honest and pay out even on really big sales!

    The ones who had apparently been "borderline" have taken a turn for the worse, though...

    ~Revenue is King

  4. #4
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    Don't you think CJ should have a way of seeing how many reversals a merchant has out of ALL sales though? Then people everywhere would know how good or bad they are!!

  5. #5
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    We had that info available before.
    We had also a full set of tools to help the affiliates grow their business.
    They took it away. Why, just because some people at CJ don't know what they are doing.
    Some are saying it's to save money. If it's the case they made a big mistake. If the affiliates don't make money, they will not make money either. They can try to sell our emails to spammers, but it will not last long.
    Now, if you can convince CJ to give us back what we need,
    Good luck, I'm with you

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  6. #6
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    Well, I'm against the doing away with reversal data only because it is an elusive act.

    I think CJ is right about it's actual usefullness in persuading publishers one way or another.

    Take eBay, Zappos, etc. ..You could post their high reversal data, but it would have little if any affect on the majority of desperate publishers eager for anything to show up in their reports.

    Let all the cheating high reversal merchants sign-up at CJ if they like for all I care. CJ can use the sign-up money towards new faster servers for our benefit, and the tricks for clicks publishers will also be fully occupied following the money mirages every which way these merchants turn.

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I have addressed this issue before.

    It is absurd to expect us to do all the work of putting up a merchant and trying them out BEFORE we learn that they are deleting all high commission sales. CJ has the information and it should be available to us.

    If using the dollar amount is not an accurate depiction of what is happening, then give us a percentage of the number of sales.

    Also, give us the details. I want some reason to believe that the reversal is genuine. "Other" is not a reason.

    Merchants should be held accountable for all reversals.


    I DEMAND that you MAKE merchants show proof of EVERY reversal!!!

    This issue should not be dropped!

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  8. #8
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SSanf:
    It is absurd to expect us to do all the work of putting up a merchant and trying them out BEFORE we learn that they are deleting all high commission sales. CJ has the information and it should be available to us.


    One thing you can try before putting up a merchant is to look at how they handle credit cards, payments and their shipping policies.

    • If they validate credit cards real-time, not in an offline mode, that will reduce fraud.
    • Some merchants allow the customer to place an order, then mail a check. We tried it and found that a very small percentage ever sent the payment. Those account for a good percentage of reversals.
    • Look at the countries they show in their shipping options. Unfortunately Indonesia, Romania, Russia and Africa, to name a few, are high fraud countries and could increase the reversal percentage.
    • Do they report sales real-time or in batch? Real-time merchants have no choice but to reverse bad sales. Batch merchants can simply not transmit the sale to CJ, effectively reversing it without you knowing.[/list]

      Those are just a few things you can look at when evaluating a merchant. Just because they do some or all of the things above does not necessarily make them a bad merchant. You might still make money, even with some reversals mixed in. Just watch the EPC and make sure it stays within your acceptable ranges.

      Scott Marino
      WebUndies.com

      CJ ~ 12% commission / 60 day cookies / unlimited actions / parasite free

  9. #9
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    I just love this time of year, the lush green of my lawn accented by the red reversals from asontv.com

  10. #10
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    As an affiliate at cj for a long time , I also hate reversals , but they do occur. Dollar amounts have not been the issue , though most were of higher dollars than others. But common sense says that the higher the sale the more likely the legitimate potential fraud there will be. For example the % of fraudulent $50 sales is less than $1,000 sales.

    ( also if the merchant is "crooked" and trying to cheat it also makes sense that he will reverse a $1,000 sale quicker than 20 $50 sales )

    Also the type of merchandise being sold is a factor of legitimate reversals. I am a zappo affiliate and yes reversals are high. But I also owned brick & mortar shoes stores. My staff was well trained in fitting shoes and making adjustments to them as needed , which is impossible to do over the internet. Also a size 7 from one brand does NOT fit the same as a size 7 shoe of another brand necessarily. Heck , even different styles of the same brand don't always fit the same. This leads to a high % of returns , thus reversals. Another factor is that some types of merchandise are subject to higher levels of fraud orders than others. High ticket items or easily resold items are prime targets for fraud orders. Gift items being purchased by a buyer but being delivered to a different name and address are also prime targets. These are all reasons for legitimate reversals , and as the % of internet fraud grows so will the % of reversals. Don't blame the merchant for something he can not control.

    As for "proof" of the reversal , what will satisfy an affiliate ? No matter what explanation a merchant gives , an affiliate will always feel cheated ( and sometimes be justified ) . Would affiliates rather see all batched sales , rather than real time ? The reversals will still be there in the batched sales and the cheating by unscroupulous merchants will still occur , we just won't see it.

    There are no easy answers except to get to know your merchant partners and watch your NET earnings. If the relationship overall is profitable then promote , if not don't. If when talking with the merchant he appears to be a sleave , replace him. If he is smart , fair and thinking of a long term profitable business and respects you as a partner in accomplishing that success , then return that respect.

    If a merchant wants to cheat , no reports are going to stop him. He will find a way. ( leopards can't change their spots ) Eventually his greed will grow to a point where affiliates will just stop promoting because the epc will drop too low.

    MYSTICAL CARIBBEAN LOVELEAF - It's Brought Good Health, Good Luck - and LOVE - to Caribbean People For Years!
    http://www.loveleaf.net

  11. #11
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    Reversals: How to scam the affiliate out of money owed to them.

    Bradley Professional Business Services
    P.O. Box 8413
    New Haven, Connecticut 06530

  12. #12
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    CJ merchants will not answer my inquires.
    Should I insult them or just drop them?

  13. #13
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    quote:
    Originally posted by El Jefe:
    CJ merchants will not answer my inquires.
    Should I insult them or just drop them?


    Are you contacting them via CJ mail or a regular e-mail address on the site? Just like many affiliates don't read their CJ mail, some merchants might not know to read theirs. Try looking for a contact e-mail on their site. They are more apt to read those. Also, some AM's only work Monday through Friday.

    Sending them a nastygram won't really accomplish much unless you are intent on dropping them. Try a message like:

    quote:
    Dear merchant,

    I have tried to contact you several times regarding {issue} but have received no response. I have invested time and effort into promoting your program and have generated $nn.00 worth of sales. Since I have recieved no response to my e-mails, I am considering switching my links to {competitor}. I would like to keep my links to your program but need to hear from you soon.

    Regards,
    affiliate


    It would show that you are willing to work with them and demonstrate the financial impact to them for ignoring you in a non-threatening way. If you get no response to that - DROP THEM! There's probably a competing AM who would love to have you switch your links to them. You might even ask the competing AM to match the commission percent if you can demonstrate that you have links that will generate sales. It's worth a try...

    Scott Marino
    WebUndies.com

    CJ ~ 12% commission / 60 day cookies / unlimited actions / parasite free

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    quote:
    Just like many affiliates don't read their CJ mail, some merchants might not know to read theirs.


    So True! I just this week had a CJ merchant reply to an email I sent them over four months ago. What was their response? LOL They gave me their nonCJ email and asked that I contact them there.

    Some AM's just don't have a clue.

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

  15. #15
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    _________________________________________
    Reversals: How to scam the affiliate out of money owed to them.
    _________________________________________

    Do you think a merchant should pay a commission regardless of whether a sale is made or not? Do you think all reversals are thus a "scam" ? I will agree with you that like there are "scam" merchants, there are "scam" affiliates but by far the most is "scam" buyers. The internet is full of people using fraudulent and stolen credit cards. These "sales" are recorded in real time so you get a "commission" if the merchant doesn't batch. When the merchant sees the details of the sale and investigates then decides not to ship , no sale was made therefore your "commission" is reversed. If an item is returned , no sale is also made , therefore a reversal. There are many legitimate reasons for a reversal. That is life.
    But as affiliates we also know there are many legitimate sales that are NOT paid a commission. And that stinks. If an item is exchanged , a sale WAS made ,so we do deserve the commission on the net sale. If more , the difference , if less , a small reversal. Telephone sales , mail order , repeat sales etc. these are all areas where commissions are deserved. If a AM has a "budget" for commissions and that budget is exceeded because of an increase in sales , what justification in the world is there to make reversals on legitimate sales? Their budget should be a % of sales , not a dollar amount. More sales , means more budget.

    It really all boils down to relationships. Good merchant/affiliate partnerships create win/win success for both parties. Bad relationships in the long run , create losers. And the truth is , it is usually the merchant who is the big loser if he is a cheat as we can always find someone else to promote. Let him try and find good affiliates to replace you. There aren't that many , and good affiliates are very choosey of who they promote. Bottom line , good affiliates will only promote IF they are making a profit. And since our time is finite , we will spend the most time on those merchants we make the most profit with. Business is NOT rocket science , it is common sense. What amazes me is the lack of common sense I see on the internet.

    MYSTICAL CARIBBEAN LOVELEAF - It's Brought Good Health, Good Luck - and LOVE - to Caribbean People For Years!
    http://www.loveleaf.net

  16. #16
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    quote:
    What amazes me is the lack of common sense I see on the internet.



    Why? Take a look around the real world and it's no different!

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    It seems that CJ is making it easier for fraudulent merchants to thrive in their network. With the absence of chargeback statistics, and the absence of individual product statistics, it's difficult to know which merchants are good and which ones aren't.

    Andy

    _______________
    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  18. #18
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    I would hope that common sense tells affiliates to drop merchants that are reversal happy. Unfortunately this isn't usually the case.

    It's hard for ones building a large shopping site where large numbers of merchants are needed... If it is found that a small percentage of merchants are honest, the large shopping site owner is subceptible to falling prey to an irrational mode of reasoning...always hoping the crooked merchants will mend their ways one day...because the affiliate "needs" them.

    Chapter two: Overcoming the need for crooked merchants

    Is there really a need for a self help book to be written? Accept the reality of the situation and adapt to it.

    We could also write a book of all the common attributes of merchants that are not honest...exit pop-ups on site, 123 is part of their name, etc. LOL

    "some merchants seem to reverse practically every transaction - why doesn't CJ show us this anymore"?

    They could tell you the sky is blue... will that help you know the fact any better?

    If every affiliate would wake up one day and drop every merchant they knew were'nt being completely honest... umm, scratch that because it isn't going to happen.

    Yes, someone had it right...this is the internet.

  19. #19
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    quote:
    They could tell you the sky is blue... will that help you know the fact any better?


    Yeah, because with a new (to the affiliate) merchant, it takes about 2-3 months of "looking up" to see the color of the sky for ourselves!

    The reversal rate was like a weather report. Maybe not 100% accurate (neither are any other weather reports, but the TV doesn't just stop showing them), but if it said something like "Chargeback Percentage 50%"--those looking for sunny skies would know to look elsewhere. But if it said the percentage was only ".01%," there was a pretty good chance that things sold at *that* place would STAY sold!

    Not knowing the color of the sky until it starts hailing reversals on our heads is a definite disimprovement.

    ~Revenue is King

  20. #20
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    quote:
    123 is part of their name


    Now that you mention it, there *does* seem to be a fairly high correlation between those numbers being in the name and crookedness~!

    ~Revenue is King

  21. #21
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    "it takes about 2-3 months of "looking up" to see the color of the sky for ourselves"!

    Again, tack several more months...(or years) for the average affiliate to drop the merchant once it is determined what color the sky is.

    All I'm saying is why cater to new affiliates...most of whom are already self-programmed to promote bad merchants well beyond discovering science...no, scratch that.

    I just think it's irrational to expect a company like CJ...who will accept every crook that lays money down...to supply affiliates will indicators that expose such crooked merchants for what they are.

  22. #22
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    quote:
    I just think it's irrational to expect a company like CJ...who will accept every crook that lays money down...to supply affiliates will indicators that expose such crooked merchants for what they are.


    I think companies like CJ should be protecting their affiliates as WELL as their merchants, it would be better for everyone in the end, wouldn't it?

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