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  1. #1
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    HI All,

    I had already booted eBates from Irvs Luggage, previously but still got this program change in my CJ inbox:

    Publisher Ebates.com (46157) has changed their program description. Please review the new program description. If this description is unsatisfactory you may end your relationship with the publisher through the account manager or by contacting client services.

    New description:

    Cash back shopping. Auto redirect functionality built into software application. When you land on an advertiser site we are affiliated with you will be auto-recirected through our tracking link back to the advertiser site.

    We currently bundle with the following FreeWare applications.
    Blue Haven, Galt, NeoNapster, Free Wire and Road Side.

    Users are not required to register for auto-redirect application to work.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    THEN got another revised one 1 minute later:

    Publisher Ebates.com (46157) has changed their program description. Please review the new program description. If this description is unsatisfactory you may end your relationship with the publisher through the account manager or by contacting client services.

    New description:

    Cash back shopping. Auto redirect functionality built into software application. When you land on an advertiser site we are affiliated with you will be auto-redirected through our tracking link back to the advertiser site.

    We currently bundle with the various FreeWare applications.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The desciption sure seems a lot more honest and forth right about what they do.
    But don't you think it's kinda like an admission of guilt??? They admit they
    are re-directing.

    Plus when they deleted this it makes me wonder what they are trying to hide:
    "Users are not required to register for auto-redirect application to work."
    Does this mean anyone who just visits and does not register, somehow ends up
    re-directing commissons to eBates???

    I hope I don't get in touble for posting this. You guys would never know about it if I had not. But if it's sent to advertisers by CJ I think it should be public knowledge.

    Who's keeping it fair in revenue share???
    What does COC stand for???

    Linda Buquet ~ Affiliate Management Consultant ~ Catalyst eMarketing.com
    Representing www.5StarAffiliatePrograms.com: DentalPlans|Irv's Luggage|Executive Essentials|IntellicontactPro|zZounds|Roadloans

    [This message was edited by AMconsulting on July 26, 2003 at 12:31 PM.]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    Thanks Linda. I'm curious to know why you got the message when they were not part of your program any longer. Could this be something that CJ is sending to ALL merchants in an effort to get ebates picked back up?

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....

  3. #3
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    This is proof that merchants that work with Ebates just don't get it.

    Why on earth would any affiliate work with any merchant that supports ebates?

    They re-direct your traffic. Wake up, and contact your merchants and make sure that they do not work with ebates. If they do work with ebates, why would you want to promote them? Your traffic will just be sucked up by MoMoney.

  4. #4
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    And CJ and others go along their merrily way helping them divert our commissions
    And people wonder why we give some merchants and networks a rough time in here. The post from them says it all.

    ...............
    WW

    Make a difference! Support your local Cancer Care providers.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    CJ's Publisher Service Agreement:

    You shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith, including, but not limited to, using any device, program, robot, Iframes, hidden frames, redirects or clicking on Links that You place to the Advertiser.




  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    quote:
    What does COC stand for???



    "CROOKS OVERWRITING COMMISSIONS!"

    ------------------------------
    What does the COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commissions.
    Don't worry! Tracking is infected!
    ------------------------------
    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    A real honest answer from CJ would be greatly appreciated as they seem to be recruiting for this parasite. Do they get paid a recruitment fee by eBates?

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    I agree Mike. Todd, can we get an answer to why you allow ebates to openly redirect clicks while at the same time they are violating the CJ service agreement?

    Please enlighted us on this.

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....

  9. #9
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Chris,

    In answer to your question: "I'm curious to know why you got the message when they were not part of your program any longer. Could this be something that CJ is sending to ALL merchants in an effort to get ebates picked back up?"

    I just finally got permission to drop them on 7/22 and posted about it here.
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...1&m=8606072873
    I unfortunately let them stay longer than I wanted to because they were BARELY generating any sales - so it was hard to convince anyone they were stealing my other affiliate's commission cuz they were just were not selling much. The few sales they did make I could pretty much track to their email blasts where we were featured.

    When an advertiser rejects a publisher they are given 7 days before they are terminated. So that's why I got it. I don't think CJ is sending it to all advertisers.

    Linda Buquet ~ Affiliate Management Consultant ~ Catalyst eMarketing.com
    Representing www.5StarAffiliatePrograms.com: DentalPlans|Irv's Luggage|Executive Essentials|IntellicontactPro|zZounds|Roadloans

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    From the Code of Conduct:

    Software Installation and De-Installation.
    Publishers may not bundle downloadable shopping software applications with other applications, wherby the installation and de-installation is not obvious, easy or complete.

    I thought they were not allowed to bundle?

    I have gotten auto downloads of Ebates this week from somewhere. I ran adaware and there it was. Twice.

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    Understood Linda. I'd still like to know why CJ is still allowing them to do this when it is a blatent violation of the rules. I guess $$$ does talk more than action in some companies.

    I wonder if any of us would be given the same favortism as they get in the same situation. Answer - Heck no!!!!

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....

  12. #12
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    quote:
    Does this mean anyone who just visits and does not register, somehow ends up
    re-directing commissions to eBates???



    Not by just a visit Linda. But with the bundled software. You have to install MMM for the app that it is bundled with to function. If the user has not previously registered with ebates, there is no registration process connected with the install. So in those cases, the MMM software will still work causing the auto redirects, but they just don't have to give a % of the cash back. Ebates gets to keep it all. Not a bad trade off for the 6 cents or whatever it is per download.

    quote:
    This is proof that merchants that work with Ebates just don't get it.



    Also proof that merchants have been informed exactly what is going on.

    quote:
    I thought they were not allowed to bundle?



    Connie, it's the whereby after the bundle part. As far as all the posts regarding that ebates is in violation of some part or other of the COC, remember the build in escape clause the networks gave themselves in the COC. That part about the COC being interpreted by each individual network and compliance actions set by each network according to their business model. CJ has already publicly stated they interpret ebates to be in compliance with the COC.

    I suspect the reason the notices have gone out to merchants is a legal CYA move by CJ. If any merchant's complain that CJ did not duly inform them of what ebates does, they now have this notice to fall back on. I expect more of this type of thing in the near future.

    It's Your Money. You earned it. What are you going to do to make sure you get to keep it?

  13. #13
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Connie,

    You didn't go to their site? Did you download any freeware this week?

    This comment which was deleted is what is really bothering me>

    "Users are not required to register for auto-redirect application to work." Is it a drive by install?

    You know back when "some people" said eBates was no longer overwriting or redirecting and they were in compliance - well that was one thing and I admit I bought into it for a little while. Now that they openly admit what they are doing, how can they be allowed to continue? Other publishers seem to be terminated for less serious infractions from what I have read here.

    Linda Buquet ~ Affiliate Management Consultant ~ Catalyst eMarketing.com
    Representing www.5StarAffiliatePrograms.com: DentalPlans|Irv's Luggage|Executive Essentials|IntellicontactPro|zZounds|Roadloans

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    .

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on July 26, 2003 at 03:13 PM.]

  15. #15
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Ms B,

    This assumption "I suspect the reason the notices have gone out to merchants is a legal CYA move by CJ." is not correct.

    Everytime a publisher changes their program description and it has anything all all to do with incentives - it is automatically sent out to all joined merchants.

    CJ does not do this it's automatic.

    I get these warnings all the time - even if it's some little home made local site that decides that want to give 1% to their church an automatice notice is sent out to all joined advertisers warning them the site now offers incentives.

    So this is good on CJs part that they are notifying merchants automatically. Many times I worry that a parsite might sneak into my program with a normal looking site and then change things after they are approved. CJ does help us try to catch incentive sites so we can manually review to see if they are kosher.

    Linda Buquet ~ Affiliate Management Consultant ~ Catalyst eMarketing.com
    Representing www.5StarAffiliatePrograms.com: DentalPlans|Irv's Luggage|Executive Essentials|IntellicontactPro|zZounds|Roadloans

  16. #16
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    quote:
    Users are not required to register for auto-redirect application to work.


    http://www.afftrack.com/summit/
    Paul Nichols
    quote:
    Currently, new downloads have the re-direction feature turned "off"; eBates is making move to upgrade existing MMM tools (that are already installed in future)


    More powerful steps forward from the Nov 7 meeting. More people living up to their word, more people having ethics. What does Wayne call the Nov 7 meeting? A great *ss**** for affiliates??? oh no that was me... wayne calls it a great first step... heheh. Yeah, wonder why he says that?

    Of course as I have learned, I will be called unprofessional for pointing out Paul Nichols is countering the statement he made at the Nov 7th meeting. One day I will be professional and sit back and smile while people lie to me.

    But will Paul Nichols now admit, his software is not about empowering the enduser because how do you empower someone who so does not want your product, they don't bother taking 10 seconds to signup - TO MAKE MONEY. So CJ and the other networds, what is the excuse now? The empowerment excuse is over. This is about sneaking software on someone's computer to make a comission.

    I have been harping on this for awhile now. Wanna know what is coming next? Different commission rates based on if the person is registered or not. Wait. It is coming.

    I will bet anyone $50 within a year we see the networks and/or the merchants getting a discounted rate for ebates commissions that are not registered users. Kickbacks.

    Since this goes against what Paul said at the meeting. Since this goes directly against what I have been told by numerous people involved including networks, merchants - and that innoccent guy. What now? Can we say lying never gets punished? Of course not, because it is unprofessional to say someone is lying in the first place.

    Paul is saying ebates does it now - but it has been doing this, for awhile. Yet CJ doesn't care, none of the networks care. Because we have to let the enduser empower themselves...

    Chet

  17. #17
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Yes, Linda it is an automated process at CJ which is good. That started back when CPC were still running and merchants (especially those that autoapproved) were not to happy paying cpc on incent sites.

    By the CYA, I meant the fact that an ebates program change announcement went out that is much more reflective of what they are really doing when there has been no actually change in how the ebates program is running. Could it be some merchant's HAVE caught on and weren't too thrilled to find out they have been paying commissions on direct type ins? That's bascially what the description is saying. Aside from it being bundled.

    quote:
    "Users are not required to register for auto-redirect application to work." Is it a drive by install?



    That is not necessarily a drive by download. It just means that the customer did not have to register with ebates so the consumer gets their rebates for the software to work. IOW, the MMM can be working in full force and the end user HAS NOT necessarily actively enrolled in ebates to do rebate shopping.

    It's Your Money. You earned it. What are you going to do to make sure you get to keep it?

  18. #18
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    Looks like ebates is preparing for the Christmas season.

  19. #19
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    looks like the MOB


    carneol

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I did not visit ebates, nor did I download any free or shareware.

    I run adaware almost every day.

    I get lots of strange popups from my spam emails. I got the download from an email.

    I did not give them any permission to be on my computer. I did not agree to anything.

    I keep getting gator crap too.

    No one else uses my laptop, ever. So it wasn't from someone doing something that I didn't know about.

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com

  21. #21
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    What...CJ answer questions or explain relationships with Parasites?

    NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

    Here is the Answer:$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  22. #22
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    I know I mentioned it before, but sign up for google adsense. Put them on your sites. They pay more than any merchant at cj does. Every darn click to google's advertisers is money out of the pockets of CJ.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    George Steinbrenner once said, "You gotta have balls."

    Well, eBates certainly seems to fit the Yankee criteria on that count.

    Un-freaking-believable.



    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Let's keep this all in perspective and clarify for once DUPERS are not MERCHANTS. Merchants do not work on a commission basis. Salemen do. My 7 year old grand daughter running a frontyard lemonade stand is a merchant ....Paul Nichols is NOT.

    Chet rightfully said: ""But will Paul Nichols now admit, his software is not about empowering the enduser because how do you empower someone who so does not want your product, they don't bother taking 10 seconds to signup - TO MAKE MONEY. So CJ and the other networks, what is the excuse now? The empowerment excuse is over. This is about sneaking software on someone's computer to make a commission""

    BHO's have only one goal in 2003. Infect by any available means as many computer systems as possible with their theftware application. 100% of these BHO advertising tools are by design meant to eliminate the sales efforts to earn a commission without any media buying expense. Would Paul Nichols sell his left nut and soul to shove MMM through the P2P networks trojan horse backdoors infecting 200 million potential shoppers systems?? Would CJ or the other networks even care?

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  25. #25
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    I am an enduser too, and as that I filed a complaint at http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/contactus.asp . A lot of us should do so too.



    carneol

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