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  1. #1
    Newbie
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    January 18th, 2005
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    I've just had a merchange reverse out almost all leads (for the second month in a row). I have never quite seen anything like it.

    The reason on the transactions are all "Duplicate order". This is curious given that the orders are up to 12 hours apart.

    The last month I eventually got a lame excuse from the merchant.

    I'm sorry... 90% reversal is absolute nonsense - if not outright fraud. I've emailed the merchant in question and stated that I am immediately discontinuing advertising their offer/program.

    Who/what do I talk to at CJ to inform them - or can a merchant continue to do this month after month? Anyone know who to email?

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    Are there any lead merchants left at CJ? LOL

    Write a letter to your merchant and suggest a move to SAS, or somewhere where they'll be able to afford to pay their lead producing affiliates ...if they mean that much to you.

    Forget telling CJ. They'll no more desire to right this situation as they would want to take a couple of minutes and respond to your post here.

    CJ makes a minimum of hundreds of dollars off this merchant each month regardless if you guys produce a single lead for them or not.

    Can a merchant continue to do this month after month? You bet, and from reading ABW, CJ is just the place for them to get away with it.

  3. #3
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Unless your customers are just plain stupid which I doubt they are. I would think the most reversals they could use that excuse on would be 50%.

    Hell fire to have a reversal rate of 90% using that excuse, you must either get only a very few leads, don't forget out of every ten leads 9 will be reversed leaving only one suposedly genuine lead, in which case the idiot that earned you the lead must have signed up 10 times????

    No I don't think so. If I were you I would name the merchant here. They are very plainly screwing you over.

    As for emailing CJ well some people might say email fraud@cj.com, I personaly, after sending many posts to them which very rarely get a satisfactory answer would say don't bother cos CJ won't give a toss.

    I got my parasiteware t-shirt
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  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    We should gather in some opinions on weither the majority of "lead" merchants are just fronts for spammers, list brokers, drive-by freebee BHO installers, and info peddlers to the DMA/IMS direct marketers. If the concenus is that "lead" and CPC merchants are mostly fronts for the Ad Whores, then it is a no brainer that they'd falsely reverse lead commissions without a moments thought.

    Don't hold your breath waiting for a "lead" merchant coming to host/post a ABW forum....most are just sleeze bag affiliate Dupers!

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    What's the latest count of CJ merchants? Over 1500?

    The minimum fees each merchant must pay CJ each month is $500.

    Even if each of 1500 merchants pays just the minimum fee requirements each month ...that's $750,000 each and every month ...$9,000,000 dollars a year CJ would rake in.

    Could there be 1500 worthwhile merchants to sell for online? Doubt it. But you won't see CJ saying "No".

  6. #6
    Retired Member
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    quote:

    Forget telling CJ. They'll no more desire to right this situation as they would want to take a couple of minutes and respond to your post here.



    CJ gets paid a percentage of what is paid to affiliates. If the merchant reverses you they are also reversing CJ.

    Try and deal with the issue directly with the merchant. Only if they are unresponsive to you should you come out publicly against them.

    And definitely report them to CJ if they are doing something that is obviously wrong. If they are really generating so many duplicates they need to hire a programmer.



    Retired Member

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Ditto what Steve said. CJ is in this business to make the most money possible and wants to know when iffy things are going on...

    Akiva Bergstrom
    Affiliate Partner Manager
    EssentialApparel.com
    CJ/6%/120 days/Datafeed/Parasite free
    Email: akiva@essentialapparel.com
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    SportsFanfare.com
    CJ/10%/120 days/Datafeed/Parasite free
    Email: akiva@sportsfanfare.com
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  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
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    "CJ gets paid a percentage of what is paid to affiliates. If the merchant reverses you they are also reversing CJ."

    Dah! CJ gets $500/month fees regardless.

    There will always be plenty of merchants like Tackle Direct that can barely afford the 500 bucks a month fees to CJ.

    Small sales and profit margins are either going to force such a merchant to reverse your commissions, or deactivate. Fortunately, there are more honest merchants that would rather deactivate than rip you off.

    Buy the way, how long has Tackle Direct been gone? A couple of so months? No one has yet told http://www.floridafishing.com to take down that expired CJ banner.

    Interesting stuff huh?

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the insights. I've downloaded the transactions and checked out the figures:

    Between 9/1 and 9/12 I had 31 leads. On 9/12 all but the first one were reversed out - so its actually 97% reversal rate.

    Thats a shocker alright. After doing a bit of research on the domain name (and a reverse IP search on the IP) - I think Mr Ecomcity.com is right.

    I believe this is a lead gathering service and they decide to reverse the leads when they can't successfully onsell the lead.

    The merchant is Diet2000.net (Weight loss leads). Their current site is AAAdiet.com

    The merchant should be closed down.

    'Nuff said.

  10. #10
    Member
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    Hi,
    I am new to the board. I work for SeaEagle.com which is a merchant on CJ. I understand your frustration about duplicate orders. I did find that happen to me in the month of May. For some reason we had duplicate orders that happened a week apart. I only found it in that one month and haven't seen that kind of thing again. I also feel like there should be other descriptions for reversals. At my company we have alot of foreign transactions that go through the web, alot come through affiliate links, and the credit card is usually stolen. The only option I have to reverse is 'invalid card' or I could use 'unqualified lead' but I think if the reversals were more specific it would help the relationship between affiliate and merchant.

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Jimster ...no need for the Mr. as me and Gordon take the brunt of the jokes here. My experience with lead merchants is their primary purpose is to scrape as much sellable info from referrals as they can get by with. Even Verisign programmed their Internetwide typo 404 advertising campaign to scrape the from addresses on all .com & .net typo emails to build a databse of deliverables.

    Prominent "lead merchants" included Gator-WhenU-AOL -iGive -Upromise-CyberRebates-eBates-FreeLotto and many more of our favorites.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

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