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  1. #1
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    Yahoo is big and boldly now displaying the top three sponsored links from overture. Now this is good and bad. Bad because for someone like me who had multiple keywords in the top 3 spots on yahoo - my words are now #6. And for people who had nothing in yahoo and have several top 3 listed keywords in overture - we are now in yahoo as well. So I can't really say how it will affect things - I'll give it a few days and let you know. But I have far more top listed spots in overture that will now be in yahoo than I have in yahoo that will now be pushed down. So hopefully it will work it peachy for me. When will all this transition stop - I can't take the stress. LOL!!!

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Yup, your right Jada, I was wondering why I had so many hits from Yahoo this early. Will have to wait and see how it converts into cash. <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon7.gif>

  3. #3
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    Will it mean that the search engine world will change and the winner is:
    Overture?

    Will it mean Overture's bidding price is going to be up and up and up....
    and small bidding merchant will not be able to afford it anymore ...?

    Will it mean that Overture's stock (a.k.a. OVER) is going to go up? Can believe that their stock symbol is actually OVER!!! It's OVER!!!

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Just wondering what happen next.

  4. #4
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    I don't know but I think our cost for our PPC accounts will go up because we'll be getting more hits. Which hopefully will mean more money. However, my average daily spend on goto is already about $30 per day. :eek:

    With the combination of this and the upcoming google update - It will hopefully be a sweet November. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    Give it about a year and BendOverture will be bought out or be broke.

    Why? Because the competition will blow them away...they are obviously looking to be a traffic generators for merchants direct.

    1. Because merchants can and will pay more to be listed than small fry players.

    2. It's a way to eliminate affiliate programs
    which merchants hate because they find it seriously challenging to control the affiliates

    3. Alliances with Yahoo and AOL insure they
    get traffic to search for stuff. Combined, AOL and Yahoo get about 50 million viewers per day. If BendOver can get a 1% click thru rate that's 500,000 searches per day or 15 million per month, if they can get 2% it equals the total number of searches they get right now. What would you rather do, deal with just 2 entities or a zillion affiliates.

    (Fact: we are BendOver affiliates and have been for about 6 years....took them 3 years to pay the first check, so we just kept up one link up until June...since then they owe us about $650 which we haven't seen as yet.)

    It's all about numbers - the guy with the most traffic wins. (Sorry Leader but your view of the guy with the most sales wins applies only on a small scale basis. You can't have big sales numbers without big traffic. But you can increase your CR to big sales if you have a clue from bigger traffic.)

    How it works is you have to know how many searches a keyword gets then compare that with click thru rates. For example, as a test we just sent 10,000 people plus to view our computer shoppe page for our targeted market ad network which has 7 ad slots - sort of a shrunk down BendOver page except it has banners included. Average click thru rate for each advertiser was between 3% and 6%. The mean was 4%. So based on this test we can say that if you have ad slotted on this page you will get 400 non-incentivized targeted click thrus for every 10,000 people who view the page. The projections are if this page gets 300,000 viewers, as a merchant you will get 12,000 people visitng your site.

    Question is what is the value of 12,000 visitors to your site from a page that is targeted by text links, banners and email ads - Cool Stuff 4 YOUR Computer. Click Here.

    The second question is what are the alternatives to get a similar amount of REAL targeted people to visit a site?

    12,000 x 5 cents cost you $600 on BendOver provided you have NO competition for the top 7 ad slots. Yesterday I checked and the top slot for computers was bid at $.83, number 7 at $.61. Well then this means that these merchant ARE spending between $7,000 and $10,000 per 12,000 visitors right now.

    BendOverture's problem is how to get enough search traffic to insure the volume of traffic that warrants merchants spending at least equal to what they are spending now and lowering BO's costs.

    What BO is going to do is slowly shrink the links and the keywords until they have adjusted the whole enterprise so it approximates how print media charge for impressions.

    Unfortunately, it won't be as profitable as they think because even with their links plastered all over Yahoo and AOl, they are only reaching 10% of the total eyeballs on the net.

    Consider this fact and this is what I am trying to accomplish - if thru ezines and content and sales type affiliates we can generate 100,000 visitors per day to targeted ad pages for say - computers, women, sports, jobs, homelife - essentially the main topic headings seen on the home page of BendOver - with limited space available 7 slots and maybe a rotating back link to each affiliate, then we can deliver
    to each merchant in each list 4,000 visitors per day on average or 120,000 per month.

    We have a lock on traffic generation - merchants have the choice of being left out or joining. Obviously, early on they will take a wait and see attitude, but eventually
    they cannot afford not to buy a slot simply as a response to keep their competion from getting it.

    What does this mean for our affiliates - they make money for promoting generic targeted pages that viewers world wide have a
    curiosity to see. And this set up does not in anyway impede their ability to do direct sales. The object is to funnel traffic from
    millions of places or emails on the net to a set of pages that pay both the sender for sending them, us for hosting them and are affordable to merchants.

    Just like magazine ads, it's not the affiliates or the adnetowrk hosts job to make the sales but to focus traffic so the merchant can get traffic from which to make the sales they need.

    If we can forge a set-up where every affiliate can make enough to cover their hosting costs and maybe some ad costs every month, then they can stay in business and together we can both grow a significant cash cow.

    As a really rich dude once told me, you have to not worry about today because what happens today is the result of what you did
    yesterday and farther back. You have to do today what you need to do to give you a positive outcome tomorrow and beyond.

    Affiliates and most people in general fail to succeed because they are to busy worrying about today and not enough about next week and how to get there safetly and profitably

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Fred,

    Didn't I warn that affiliate marketing will not outlast merchants bidding on PPCs? How many times did I say this on CJU .... how many?

    What this means is, MORE SO NOW THAN EVER, our trusted third parties must ensure that merchants, via contract, are not allowed to bid against us ... for if not we will be recruited as PPC experts for merchant x, y or z! :eek:

    Haiko

  7. #7
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    Yep...plus Yahoo is now going to charge for listings on personals, classifieds and more.

    The game is slowly morphing to what it should be - advertising just like in magazines, newspapers, direct mail, TV and radio.

    You want acess you pay or go away.

    CJ, Snare & BeShortChanged are too cluless to get the point, Haiko.

    But then that may be good, gives us a chance to sneak up on the marketplace and drop our nuke when they least expect it because they think we are a bunch of fools.

    The secret of success is knowing how to turn shit into gold. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Fred, the one with the most SALES wins all day long and all night, too! It doesn't matter if you have a BILLION hits if you don't know what to do with them.

    And if you DO know what to do with them, it's THAT ability (namely, the ability to SELL them stuff) that's making the profit--and therefore the win! There is NO point in increasing traffic before you know how to get a decent CR from a small amount. The only thing a site without enough SALES will "win" with big traffic is a Bankruptcy proceeding.

    "It's a way to eliminate affiliate programs
    which merchants hate because they find it seriously challenging to control the affiliates~Fred"

    I disagree that merchants are itching to fire a sales force willing to work only on commissions, and replace it with ANY program where they have to pay for mere traffic!!!

    Point #1 seems to be true, but OverSure sure is smoking something to turn down all that money that's being waved in their faces. From a penny to $10, it's all money and all they have to do to get it is go "click" on the "accept" button!

  9. #9
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    Erm, the nuke of affiliate marketing is coming into your base right now, Fred... while you look to the past, the present is firing away!!!

    The days of accepting el-dingus per impression like the newspapers do are coming to an end. What's the point of taking a stinking $50 to reach 30,000 people (prices of my local paper for a display ad of a few column inches), when you can sell 300, $10 commission items to those people and make $3000? NONE! NEWSPAPER AD RATES RIP OFF THE PUBLISHER!!!

    I have no desire to short myself $2,950 per 30,000 people so I can be "like a newpaper".

    The fact that those 30,000 people all want different things is not a problem for a virtual mall...

  10. #10
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    The difference is you have to get those 300 people to spend the money to get your $3k.

    They cost...obviously if you can sell 300 deals from 30,000 you would make more money than getting an impression fee, but you need to do both, because there is no guarantee you are going to sell anything, get paid for what you sell and such.

    If I give you a 50% commission on a deal that costs $20, all I care about is you make some sales and that's what you care about too. But the real number is not how many sales but how many sales per x number of visitors. Because there is a cost to get the traffic, create the pages etc.

    You keep saying it's all a one way street. I say it's two ways - sales and cpm or cpc.

    The chump change pays your cost and the sales commissions are your spendable profits.

    You miss the point. It's a network, it's all connected. Why look free money in the face when everyone who visits any of your pages has two choices to make: go to the merchant and buy the product or not.

    The NOT part is 99% of your traffic to those pages...why not make 2 cents as they leave for other sites to see on a good number of them.

    Suppose you have a site that gets 100 visitors per day and sells 'flowers.' Every day 1 person buys flowers and you make $10.
    The other 99 look and go somewhere else.

    You make $300 per month from this one page.
    But now suppose you had a text link at the bottom of your page that was generic to a specific category of stuff like - click here to find more flower sites and 50 people/day clicked out of the 99 who leave your page,
    you made an extra $30 per month or 10%.

    Now you income per visitor goes up dramatically. That's what I am saying. Not to only do cpm or cpc, but to use it as an adjunct to selling.

    Now outlinks are one way to earn extra money, but what if you have an ezine that earns money from ads...not all sites are direct sale sites. Unless there is someway for 'content' sites to earn something, then
    the net will turn into a big direct marketing catalog and the guy with the most search traffic and best CR will make all the money. But he will have to pay the search host to be listed. And then the search host will have to pay to get traffic so they can search for the merchants stuff.

    I look at it this way:

    There are product and service sites that sell
    stuff.

    There are 'content' sites that inform.

    Both have and need visitors to keep going.

    I want to provide the connection between the two types of sites and supply the visitors.

    What this takes is for content(ezines, online mags etc.) sites to send traffic to merchant sites and vice versa.

    You make cpm and cpc going both ways and % of sales going one way but you then have a choice of which way you make more money repective to your personal set-up.

    You say do sales only. I say do both if you can.

  11. #11
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    Imagine that Overture will join as an affiliate and put their link in the top 5. :cool: (You never know...)

    I think Yahoo is trying to make some money out of the CPC world, since the CPM world is dying. I guess that's what happen to Looksmart too (by making a deal with Ezula Top Text).
    I found out that Looksmart is a top affiliate for a jewelry site, but I can't find the ads for that site at Looksmart (the only ads at Looksmart is from Dealtime - which offer CPC @ BeFree). After a little peeking here and there, I found out that in Featured listing and the first of Reviewed Web Sites, they have the what's so called Looksmart Shopping. So Looksmart Directory has Looksmart Shopping as a result of their directory searches.....hmmm......

    Know imagine if Overture will make itself a super affiliate too..... :cool: Imagine if the top 5 of Overture listing is Overture listing by itself....

    Welll...so much analysis right now...I must stop...it must be it's sleeping time.... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img])))

    One more thing,
    Watch out for Overture to raise its minimum to 7 cents.......(it just may be...you never know..... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Haiko,
    Is there a minimum of 8 images on this site? I have an error I can have more than 8 images.

  12. #12
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    I agree with Leader. Nuff said.

  13. #13
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    Fred--

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Suppose you have a site that gets 100 visitors per day and sells 'flowers.' Every day 1 person buys flowers and you make $10.
    The other 99 look and go somewhere else.

    You make $300 per month from this one page.
    But now suppose you had a text link at the bottom of your page that was generic to a specific category of stuff like - click here to find more flower sites and 50 people/day clicked out of the 99 who leave your page,
    you made an extra $30 per month or 10%.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The PROBLEM with that is, that you never know who's going to click that ppc link. It MAY be the ones who wouldn't have bought, but it also may be the one out of the 100 who would have stayed had there been no other link. The minute one single customer who would have bought the $10 item goes out for 2c, a shirt has been LOST!

    That is why I do not put ppc links on sales pages. There is no way to make sure that ONLY the 99 go away, when there is a link INVITING them to do something unlucrative right on the page.

    Now outlinks are one way to earn extra money, but what if you have an ezine that earns money from ads...

    Well, MailBits apparantly makes so little from old-style advertising that they signed up with CJ [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    not all sites are direct sale sites.

    Yeah, and not all sites are profitable, either!

    Unless there is someway for 'content' sites to earn something, then
    the net will turn into a big direct marketing catalog and the guy with the most search traffic and best CR will make all the money.

    YES, YES, YES, YES, YES and!!!!! Any marketer who wouldn't relish that delicious scenario isn't thinking! Of course, I intend to be the one with the best CR and the most search traffic--and therefore ALL the money! (I'm sure others in the arena of marketing intend for themselves to have all the money--but that's the nature of competition!)

    >But he will have to pay the search host to be listed.

    Awwwwww.... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Anyway, what's new?

    >And then the search host will have to pay to get traffic so they can search for the merchants stuff.

    They do that anyway! If they don't do it directly, they're offering Search as one of many services, and advertising the tarnation out of the main brand (like MSN).

    I look at it this way:

    >There are product and service sites that sell stuff.

    "Profitable sites"

    >There are 'content' sites that inform.

    Bandwidth eaters that compete for my buyers' attention!

    >Both have and need visitors to keep going.


    >I want to provide the connection between the two types of sites and supply the visitors.

    You'd have a coup if you could filter out those unconverting bandwidth wasters and only send BUYERS!

    >What this takes is for content(ezines, >online mags etc.) sites to send traffic to >merchant sites

    Lucrative if there's a CR that's decent.

    >and vice versa.

    Unlucrative! Merchants would be shooting themselves in the foot to send their customers away!

    >You make cpm and cpc going both ways and % >of sales going one way but you then have a >choice of which way you make more money >repective to your personal set-up.

    The problem is, a merchant would be throwing out the CPA--namely, sales of his own stuff--and therefore shooting himself in the foot! Plus, outside banners on a merchant site are known to wreck the CR, making those trying to get money from that merchant's affiliate program rather p*ssed (understatement)!

    >You say do sales only. I say do both if you >can.

    IF there was a way to ENSURE that the Magic One (the buyer) out of the hundred, would NOT click a PPC link along with the nonbuying traffic, THEN it would be a much better-sounding proposal. But like I said awhile back, I couldn't sleep wondering if my $10 (or more) commission had just mutated into 2c! :eek:

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    XO,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is there a minimum of 8 images on this site? I have an error I can have more than 8 images.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yep! ... 8 smilies per post ... I thought that was a reasonable amount [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  15. #15
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    I see your point Leader...focus on the sales by sending traffic to merchants that convert and pay. However, what happens is that the more searches a term gets the more valuable it is though to be. Then it becomes a competition of who has the best text copy in their description and location in the first
    20 or so listings on the search page.

    Everyone wants buyers - the hard part is and always will be sorting out the buyers from the lookie-loos. And the one thing that you never know is which lookie-loo will become a buyer today or in the future.

    I know you can't eat today from maybe buyers in the future but you can tilt the scales in your favor down the road by having as many lookie loos as possible provided they are as close to FREE as possible.

    But...suppose you are a merchant who gets 100 orders per day...would you post a cpc deal out banner on the thank you for the order page?

    On a couple of pages we have had up for over 24 months - the out banners pay the way and we make profits on sales - the majority of which come from return visits. Basically out of 100 viewers about 30 click the out banner to BendOver and we make $.60 on average we sell 1 deal per day from first time visitors and 4 or 5 deals per day from return vist people.

    You are right that you might lose the Magic Buyer today, but you also might not. You have to test it.

    We used to clean up with out banners from Valueclick at $.15 per click...but the click thru rate (35%) was way over their 4% threshold and they complained we were cheating. We our affiliates sending about 2,000 visitors per day to a Sales site for Cook's Garden to buy seeds or get a free catalog. We had about a 19% conversion ratio for the combo of free catalog or seed sale, with the sales being about 3% of that.

    Worked great...

    Still would if the merchant program was set up right.

  16. #16
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Fred--

    A cpc deal on the Thank You page would be the only place to put it. As a merchant, once I've got the order, sure--I'd take another 2c or so.

    As for testing out a ppc deal on one of my actual revenue pages...brrrrr.... only a TOTAL DOG unconverter with 100% FREE Google traffic would be used for a test like that. But then that's more of a salvage operation than a "test"...

    >We used to clean up with out banners from Valueclick at $.15 per click...but the click thru rate (35%) was way over their 4% threshold and they complained we were cheating. We our affiliates sending about 2,000 visitors per day to a Sales site for Cook's Garden to buy seeds or get a free catalog. We had about a 19% conversion ratio for the combo of free catalog or seed sale, with the sales being about 3% of that.

    Ahh, doesn't it suck when a suh-weeet deal comes to an end? I'm still missin' SkyBoxTV. I had them up to a 1 in 7 CR the week they left. All $20 transactions, only 2 Ugly Red Bars the whole time I ran 'em. I finally found them again recently but I've gotta wonder if they'll pay up so nicely this time! I had 'em up with 2c bids on BendOverTure, too. I hated to hit Delete Listing on those babies!

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I get pretty high rankings on most of the search engines for free. But, I seem to be being ignored by Overature. How do they get their non-paod search results? None of my search terms have any price attatched there so I guess they aren't selling but they do bring up my competitors sites. How do I get in too?

  18. #18
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    I think overture is still pulling non-paid results from Inktomi. You can add your url to their database at:
    http://hotbot.lycos.com/addurl.asp

    or at MSN at:
    http://submitit.bcentral.com/msnsubmit.htm

    I don't know which one is faster.

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