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  1. #1
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    It now seems there is going to be a mass exodus from FREE to pay search engines.

    Other than Inktomi is it worth it?

    We have a new search directory coming online
    March 1st -

    Here's how it will work - 20 main topic categories with 20 listings available for each category.

    We will be paying affiliates 5 cents per click thru (we are using a third party ad network) to send traffic to EACH category page, not the main page. We will promote the main page direct.

    In effect affiliates can pick and choose the category they wish to promote.

    Question is do you think $5 CPM is a fair price for advertisers to pay to have 20,000 plus affiliates send traffic to view your ONE in 20 listings every day.

    In addition we are negotiating with two hosting entities that will ad well over 100,000 affiliates to the program if we close the deal.

    Note: There will be no outside ads on the pages - just the 20 listings and 1 out link at the very bottom of each page.

    We can pretty much guarantee 5,000 unique visitors per category per day on average with the number going up every month as we get more exposure and affiliates.

    We plan on having 1 million total page views per day by September.

    You opinion is important whether you want a listing dosen't matter - we will have no trouble getting 20 listings for the majority of categories.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    That sounds very expensive when you compare it to a pay per click search engine, but I don't think you are really targeting affiliate sites to be advertisers anyways. This would appeal more to site that are already bidding big money on ppc sites.

  3. #3
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Why not charge PPC, it would be more attractive and less risky for initial advertisers. Only 20 bidders are shown and no minimum bids.

  4. #4
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    "It now seems there is going to be a mass exodus from FREE to pay search engines.
    Other than Inktomi is it worth it?"

    Funny, I see that in reverse now that the pay SEs are pretending to be Yahoo and trying to kick out affiliates.

    And Inktomi's a different kind of paid SE in that it's a "pay for inclusion" engine instead of a "pay for rank" type engine like Over. There aren't many paid inclusion (but NOT rank) engines, at least not that I know of. (Inktomi, LookSmart, SchmaltaVista, Yahoo...)

    Some people willingly pay Yahoo for multiple sites so they can't be all that bad... I don't know about LookSmart. SchmaltaVista's paid inclusion has been panned by many who've tried it (I haven't tried it). Inktomi's usually worth it. Note that Yahoo and, I believe, LookSmart actually have the gall to charge and then say it doesn't guarantee inclusion! So they're not quite like Ink and Alta that will send a spider around when they get paid...

    "just the 20 listings and 1 out link at the very bottom of each page."

    I know you love your out-links, but from an advertiser's perspective that equals twenty-ONE clickable things on the page--in other words, it dilutes the value (to advertisers) a bit.

    Personally I think $5/CPM is a bit steep. Plus, part of PPC's allure (for banner advertisers) is in the fact that if nobody clicks, it's a FREE exposure of the ad. So you have that working against CPM, too...

    But compared to paying some ridiculous per-click price (thinking of the saps that pay $5/CLICK in some categories) your fee could be considered a deal...

    "We can pretty much guarantee 5,000 unique visitors per category per day on average"

    All that says to me on a CPM deal is that my money can be eaten up FAST!!! My shirt lost before I realize it's been taken off :eek: It would be nice to be able to regulate the number of displays per day of any particular ad... For instance, to get 1,000 views/day over a period of a month, instead of 30,000 views in 6 days or less!

    On the other hand, I know that there are places that don't mind burning through the money, that'll say "run it for a month, as much as you can" without regard to the WHOPPING bill that would cause! There's one born every minute--all you need to do is find the Ones that haven't already been parted with their money!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    It's a tough decision - ppc or cpm.

    If it was PPC we couldn't pay 5 cents per click to affiliates and the third party program and pay for bandwidth and be assured we make enough so everyone at leasts breaks even and affiliates get paid.

    CPM on the other hand let's us be sure we can pay all the affiliates and expenses.

    A hybrid deal would probably be best but we'd probably be in the same boat as CPC as it would mean greater tracking costs.

    As it stands now the out link is going to go to GoClick for further search, so that should benefit PPC searcdes there.

    No matter how you slice it - to get big time traffic someone has to pay for it. I'm trying to make it as lowcost and fair as possible for merchants and affiliates. If we can clear $1/1000 that works for me.

    Obviously the big guys can afford $50k for 10,000,000 page views of their listing and
    small affiliates can't.

    But how else can you do it if affiliates get banned from PPC and you constantly have to try to get position in the pay per inclusion places.

    We have thought this thing out for over 6 months...a merchant could buy a listing and also send traffic to us for the 5 cents using our rotating category banner.

    Any ideas would be appreciated.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    It seems to me that .005 per impression for a directory listing only makes sense if I am in a top 3 position.

    How will page placement be determined, first come first served, or will placement be random, or will it be rotated on an even basis?

    If its random or rotated, I'm going to average position 10. From that position I think the standard click thru rate is maybe 2%.

    So thats 50 impressions at 1/2 cent per click to get one click, or 25 cents per click. (Way too much for me!)

    So, whats the policy on page position?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Good points -

    Page position will be first come first served. I think that's the fairest way.

    We thought about rotating the listings but merchants probably would *****.

    The other thing we are thinking about was

    We could make it work at $6 CPM for slots 1 thru 3. $5 for slots 4 thu 6 and $4 for slots 7 thru 11. $3 for slots 12 thru 20.

    Or $7 for #1, $5 for 2 thru 5, $4 for 6 thru 11 and $3 for 12 thru 20.

    I do think that the key to the CTR is how good your ad is compared to the other guys.

    One thing about this set up is that there may only a few competitors for a specific product on a page. For example, for the category computers it's going to include hardware, software, printers, ink, parts, networking, programming.

    Someone like Tiger would be at a big advantage with a listing. Same thing would apply for an affiliate who has a printer/ink type mall.

    If it's worth it for merchants will depend on how much branding they want with their CTR. If the volume is there it's deal.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    How much for targetted audiences that don't come via incentives? I need 5,000 a day Fred. How much for 5,000 targetted visits a day?

    Ya'll can give me your money. I can run your ad on 300 web pages. I'll charge flat rate, and place your text link ad, or banner, at the top of every page! Run of the mill.... hmmmm let's see... 300 bucks a month. A dollar a page! WOW! this is fun [Big Chuck talks to himself for a minute... "I wonder if there will be any takers?"]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005

    You can sign up as an affiliate and post a category oriented banner or a rotating banner with all the categories in rotation on all your 300 pages.

    You'd make 5 cents per click thru. Get one click per day per page and you make $450 per

  10. #10
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    A point that is missed alot is how much time does it take to get a good position in Google.

    Everyone wants to be on the first page but there can only be so many who make it, so it's really trying to win the lottery trying to win the position game.

    And again it is a scale problem. It's real easy to make $1,000 per month as an affiliate
    of a bunch of merchants.

    The problem is getting large because it seems that economies of scale are hard to achieve on the net.

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