Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    218
    I finally saw Google.bot crawl my site. It was yesterday, 3/9. If the little critter decides to add my site to the Google directory, how much loner wil it take?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    136
    The GoogleBot crawls to gather sites for the search engine, not the directory.

    The directory is just DMOZ. Submit your site to dmoz.org for inclusion in the Google directory.

    The next "Google day" is somewhere aroung the 20-25th or so. That is the day the search engine will start including the sites found during the current crawl. There is something of a "pool" around here to guess the exact day. Once it start, it will fade in and out for about a week. Some call that the "Google dance."

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    If you want to be up on when Google starts updating, I would start checking www2.google.com and www3.google.com for movement around the 18th of the month. Look for new sites.

  4. #4
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    218
    Thanks everyone. I was a big-time PPC/Overture advertiser who never "saw the google light". But now I see the value and the importance.

    BY the way, what are <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>www2.google.com and www3.google.com <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>?

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    Quick answer: google has three databases - the main one at www.google.com where people go to search, and two others found at www2.google.com and www3.google.com . These latter two are where they tweak algorithims and update the database before it goes live on the main site. When Google updates, you will see listings changing, appearing and disappearing for about a week. This is because they are switching between the new results (usually from www2) and the old results.

    To get a good idea of what the new results are going to be, checking at www2.google.com is your best bet to see what the final update will be like. Expect an update around the 22nd this month, though I will be checking www2 from about the 18th as I said. However, last month the results went straight from www3 to the main site and the update was about 3-4 days early.

  6. #6
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    218
    Thanks MarkyMark. Googlebot crawled 29 pages on my site. Each page has its own set of keywords/phrases and description. I hope my chances are good that some of them will be found somewhere in the search results.

  7. #7
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2
    Good info everyone. I have a quick question regarding this as well. I am currently getting quite a bit of traffic from Google but I am worried it may not continue because last month I was dropped from the Google directory for whatever reason. It is an affiliate site and not sure if that is why they dropped me. Will GoogleBot still crawl my website this month or do they only crawl sites that are in the directory? Any help figuring this out would be GREAT. Thanks.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,650
    If you're developing your own content "affiliateness" in and of itself shouldn't be a problem.

    My site is full of affiliate links and I was out of Google for a few weeks, but now I'm back in. I did a bit of tweaking, but those affiliate links are one thing I did NOT change, so whatever made the difference between "out" and "in" that wasn't it.

    I think the only kind of affiliate that needs to worry about being dropped just for being an affiliate is the kind where the merchant provides everyone with a "self-replicating" site. I know of a couple of merchants who are blocked from Google because of so many duplicated pages.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  9. #9
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    If you're out of the Google directory, that means one of two things:

    DMOZ, the source of the Google directory data, dropped your site. Unlike Google proper, DMOZ does NOT like affiliate sites (those WONDERFUL sites dedicated to getting people to buy Merchant.com's stuff)! They are prejudiced against middlemen/women! Needless to say I think they can KMA big time because of that, but that's digressing from the current issue...

    Or, DMOZ could have messed up the data feed somehow and lost some sites in the translation.

    EITHER WAY, the main Google results (the Index) are not the same as the directory results--you should not disappear totally from the regular Google index (the INDEX is what is created from the results of Googlebot's spidering...) just because DMOZ didn't include your site in the directory.

    BUT, without that DMOZ link, it is likely that your PageRank is going to drop since Google does give links from well-regarded (well regarded by *them*, anyway [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) directories high weight.

    All is not lost, though...you can make up for the lack of a DMOZ link by getting more links from other sites. Just how many more it'd take depends on the quality of the other links.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    While we are on that subject, let's kill this Google doesn't like affiliate sites rubbish once and for all. While ODP and Looksmart discriminate against affiliate sites, Google is a search engine and doesn't care, if only because it uses software rather than human beings to assess and rank sites.

    What Google likes is this :

    i) title tag - mid length titles (40 characters) with your key phrase at the beginning
    ii) Heading Tags - An h1 tag as the first visible text also incorporating your main keyphrase works very well. Particularly if this is an exact duplicate of your title (Fast and Lycos like this too).
    iii) Keyword Proximity - Different from keyword density. One of the things that has made Google so successful is the importance of where each keyword in a phrase is in relation to the other words of that phrase.

    For example: Take big blue widgets as a keyphrase. If your opening two sentences of the visible text on your page mentions the phrase big blue widgets twice near each other, you WILL rank higher than a site that mentions it once in the first sentence then has each word in the second sentence but broken up like this:

    If you want your widgets big, or you want them blue, then click here.

    This is radically different from how Inktomi, for instance, ranks sites.

    iv) Keyword Density - Google likes a high keyword density . You can get away with around 12%+, though this will probably kill your ranks in Inktomi engines.
    v) Link Popularity - Too much is made of this. Quality inbound links from sites with high PageRank do make a difference, but stressing over PageRank is not worth the effort.
    vi) Link Text - everyone should know about this by now with all this Google Bombing stuff in the press. If your inbound link text is your keywords, then you get a boost. Simple.
    vii) Alt tags - Google reads alt tags but ignores comment tags.

    There ya go. See you at the top.

  11. #11
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    315
    Marky, not all of those things work. We have done all that and still have sites that do not rank. There is still more to getting to the top of Google. Page rank does matter because without it, you're dead in the water. Our sites that got dinged and have no page rank are nowhere to be found in the index. Those that have page rank are easily found.

    [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: hershey ]

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,279
    >>While we are on that subject, let's kill this Google doesn't like affiliate sites rubbish once and for all.<<

    THANK YOU.

    As for the rest of your message?

    THANK YOU.

    <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon38.gif>

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>]Originally posted by Hershey

    Not all of those things work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>.

    Yes, Hershey - ALL of those things work and I never said that PageRank didn't matter, but it is not the main part of the Google ranking algorithim by any means. Too much is made of it.

  14. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,336
    All else being equal, all those things should work. Except I'm not quite sure about having the major keyword phrase at the very beginning of the page title. I like it in the middle. Then I put a minor keyword in front of that and the whole phrase should make another minor keyword phrase.

    If all this concatenating results in five words I might add any other keyword to the title with an 'etc'.


    I

  15. #15
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    260
    Icicle..

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Except I'm not quite sure about having the major keyword phrase at the very beginning of the page title. I like it in the middle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The beginning does work best from my experience.. This also applies to other factors excluded or overlooked by markymark.

    markymark

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Link Popularity - Too much is made of this. Quality inbound links from sites with high PageRank do make a difference, but stressing over PageRank is not worth the effort.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ack, cough, splutter.. If two sites are structured in a similar fashion - let's just say that they both use your points to the letter.. then the highest page rank comes out on top.. That is worth the effort when you are playing in fields where everyone knows what they are doing.. In some affiliate areas, there are over 40 sites highly optimized for the one keyword/phrase.. this is when it becomes important.. If you just want to target simple keywords/phrases, then you're right, it really doesn't mean much.. If you want to make some real cash, then it is worth the effort..

    Regards,
    TK

  16. #16
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Marky,

    I agree with you!

    I actually hate to mention PageRank at all, but I figured it would change without the DMOZ link and then the next question would be "what happened to my PageRank?"

    Personally I think its importance is blown way out of proportion, hotly competitive categories aside.

    And I've said all along that Google isn't really picking on affiliate sites!

  17. #17
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    260
    Leader

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Personally I think its importance is blown way out of proportion<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Recently I was doing some research for a new site and was checking the competition for different terms.. I ran a backward links check on some of the sites in the top 10 and discovered that the page I was looking at was yours (I won't mention the site for obvious reasons). That page in the top 10 was very different to the other pages that linked to it in regards to its external link structure.. When I saw this, I thought you'd developed a true understanding of how Google and Page Rank works.. Your comments though don't display this..

    Just to clear a few things up for everyone, or perhaps make them muddier.. Page Rank is a two sided coin.. 99% of people focus on one side and hence do not understand its true importance. It's the other side of the coin (in conjunction with every other seo technique) that can make or break a sites position.

    Regards,
    TK

  18. #18
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    TK--First, thanks for not revealing the pages in question.

    "it's the other side of the coin (in conjunction with every other seo technique) that can make or break a sites position.~TK"

    Now it looks like YOU are understanding what *I* have been trying to say!!

    When I say "it's been blown way out of proportion" about PageRank I am thinking of the strange idea that it's the ONLY thing...it's an oversimplification to say that there's One Thing that counts and that the rest isn't much (or is nothing).

    If it wasn't for a good amount of other optimization techniques the links alone that you referred to wouldn't help me. If I don't do keyword op right, for instance, I get TONS of dud clicks from misdirected traffic. All that does is choke up my log files without bringing me money!

    Since you admit that "every other seo technique" counts, I don't really know what your objection to what I said is...

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    Right. Here we go again. When we are talking about very competitive keyphrases, every part of the algorithim needs to be addressed and optimized. I agree with that TK. But I still maintain that PageRank is not that important.

    Can we agree that for the purposes of this discussion, PageRank is a reflection of the quality and quantity of inbound links to your site ?

    All this tells Google is that site A has more and/or a better class of a link than site B. What it doesn't tell Google is anything about site A or site B. What does tell Google something about site A or site B is the link text. IE: the text between the a href and a tags . It is this that is important in Google's ranking algorithim.

    If my site has lots of links pointing to it that say search engine positioning then Google makes an assumption that my site is about search engine positioning. When Googlebot arrives from such a link, this is confirmed by seeing a site optimized for this phrase and I get a ranking boost. This is nothing to do with PageRank, although, obviously, part of the PageRank from the linking site is passed to my site.

    The link text of inbound links is one of the things that is very important at Google. As for PageRank being a determinant to decide between two highly optimized sites, I can point you to thousands of examples where that is NOT the case.

    [ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: markymark ]

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,279
    markymark, some people will never believe you... I've gone to the trouble of posting multiple examples of PR4s beating out PR5-7 and the PR Militants just ignore it.

    Whatcha gonna do? Me? I'm gonna go optimize some more pages and steal more top rankings from the people who spend all their time trying to improve PR.

  21. #21
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    260
    Most people here still seem to be thinking inside the box, and I can accept that.. as I used to as well.. Nothing stated in this thread however has gone beyond the basics, which in its current state will work for most people most of the time.. In saying this, I went on a search once for something outside the box to give me an edge.. If you think about it, if everyone folows the same patterns, then you just end up with a quagmire and you end up with an element of risk.. So I looked into all the factors, and found the one that was least understood was page rank.. You have all stated it here by your coments in that you don't even worry about it.. What I am saying is that there is something more to page rank than what is discussed amongst suppossed experts, mainly for the fact that people have a very basic assumption of what it does and no true understanding of it.. There is more to it, and if you all want to improve your rankings and ensure higher positioning, then you should look into it from a different angle (not public assumption)..

    Quick note to markymark.. your example of a search term is a poor one as your own site does not even make the top 10 for your targeted term.. which is your actual business!?

    Cedric.. you'll never steal a top ranking from me.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Regards,
    TK

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,279
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You have all stated it here by your coments in that you don't even worry about it..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, here's a significant source of the misunderstanding: you make stuff up. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Most people here still seem to be thinking inside the box<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>lol... ah enlightening observation Grasshopper, now can you wear the box as a hat?

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>your example of a search term is a poor one as your own site does not even make the top 10 for your targeted term.. which is your actual business!?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If I may say so, that is a pretty cheap shot. You know nothing about my ranks in previous months, you know nothing about the success I have achieved for my clients. Put in simple terms: you know nothing about me whatsoever. The implication you make is that I do not know my own business and I resent that a great deal. In fact, you don't know what other terms I rank on:

    FYI: Try this search: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ebsite+ranking

    This is the one and only time I will defend myself here. If you don't agree with me TK, fine, say so but don't try to belittle me, it isn't necessary or productive.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,650
    I can't resist piping in here: I've never met Markymark but I know enough about him to have considerable respect for his search engine knowledge. I won't name names, but I just checked and one site that I know is his SEO client is in Google's top 20 for a highly sought-after commercial term with 18 million competing pages. Some of us here think we know a bit about SEO but I doubt if any of us could match that!

    Elisabeth Archambault

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    TK,

    Markymark is one of the best and that is why I immediately asked him to moderate once he became a member. I find it sad that you must attempt to belittle him with your statement.

    Haiko

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. does google bot get vacation?
    By bigdaddysheikh in forum Newbie Affiliate FAQs & Helpful Articles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 8th, 2005, 05:40 PM
  2. google adsense bot
    By lisaweb in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: July 31st, 2004, 05:29 PM
  3. Google Test Bot?
    By Andy in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 29th, 2004, 07:41 PM
  4. Is the (google)bot crawling?
    By AffiliateBuddha in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: February 8th, 2003, 12:49 PM
  5. Google bot was here!
    By in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: June 14th, 2002, 01:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •