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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I can't spend more than $100 to kick start my site until some bucks come in. When they do, of course, at first I will reinvest in more traffic.

    Where is the best place to spent this honey pot? I really want fast results as well as qualified targeted buyers.

    NO, Fred! Only targeted folks. LOL

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    I like to know that too! I have been holding off, waiting till I got things right with my site. I realized I really needed to work on things like navagation etc.. But now I think I am ready.

    Also, could someone go though this with me-lol. When you bid, do you go for single keywords or keyword phrases?

    Thanks!!

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3
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    Vicki - You would bid on whatever was seeming to get reasonable searches related to your site, single words or phrases, but mostly phrases I'd say.

    Every search engine had different ways of presenting their search inventory, I like overtures, but some don't give you much to go on... and I'm suspicious of accuracy, findwhat claim 500 searches for a phrase I wanted... they were blatantly taling rubbish and there's no two ways about it.

    To make a sale it has to be very specific I believe, bid low on low competition keywords/phrases... that are very related to your product.

    I've only just made my first ever sale, so not much to go on... but it was clicked about 10 times in 2 weeks from which I got one sale (of 3 products)... large profit. Unfortunately that's not enough to make proper money so I have to try other things, but in principle it works.

    I advertise on other keywords/phrases that get searched for more, cost me more, gets me more traffic, look good on paper, but don't make sales, even though they are just that slight bit less targeted and focused.

    I think you need good statistics software too, I was able to investigate the keyphrase used that made the sale by investigating my sitestats.

    SSanf - For a niche product like I'm selling at the minute, Overture was the best. I looked at the competition like Findwhat, etc. they do not compare to Overture for the phrases I needed. Overture has the search Inventory to be useful. If your product is less nichey, I'd still give Overture a try and Findwhat... everyone else I looked at was just not worth the time it takes to create an account.

    That's just my two cents, and specific to my own site and product... but finally, yippee, finally, even though I've only made one sale... I'm speaking from experience, I could never say that before [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  4. #4
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    Oh yeah... since you're on a budget, to avoid wasting money and flushing it down the toilet... I would not bother with keywords that are less targetted than the optimum ones which you will identify. As I've discovered you can make a forty five dollar sale from something that gets clicked the number of fingers you have, and at the minimum bid... don't get sucked into the less targeted words that get loads of searches, just to get traffic... waste of money. Well not if you might make a sale, but you are gambling if you do it rather than going for what is closer to the ideal "sure thing" keyphrase.

    ( heh heh, one sale and JLM thinks he knows it all [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

    [ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: WebSearchEngines.net ]

  5. #5
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    I would stay away from findwhat. Over the last few months their traffic has gone to junk and clicks are down. In my opinion, a waste of money.

    Mike

  6. #6
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    I agree whith that now... I'm letting my findwhat go dry... all the others I looked at just frustrated me.

  7. #7
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    JLM, congrats on your first sale!!! yeah!!!!

    Hope you get many many more!!!

    thanks for the advice!

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I find Kanoodle to be a pretty good low-cost PPC engine that's not fussy about listings, spending or keywords and generates a fair amount of traffic.

  9. #9
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    Sanf,

    Put $25 into keywords - wicca, wiccan, pagan, witchcraft, new age, and religion on GoClick.

    You can be on the first page of all words for 1 cent.

    Write a good descriptive ad to go with the words.

    Pagans, Witches & Warlocks. Shop for all your
    ritual and personal needs at MyWitchShop.
    (something like this)

    That's 2,500 visitors and you can see how you do conversion wise.

    Go to the newsgroups and post an Announcement that your site is up - there are newsgroups for withcraft, wicca, alternative religions -(it's free but make sure you tell everyone it's a one time announcement in the post.

    Go to Adland Pro and post an ad for FREE -- put it in 3 areas. It will show up on over 24,000 pages and you will get some traffic but it will be seen by a lot of people.

    Take $25 and pick 1 specific witch product -such as candles.

    Make the headline

    Pagans & Witches: Buy your ritual candles from MyWitchShop. Click here to view our large assortment and low prices.

    Pay whatever it takes to get on the first page. $.10 cents/click should do it.

    What you are doing here is testing - you will get 250 hits for your $25. You should convert about 2% if you are average.

    If you make $25 then buy more...if you make less buy another $25 but lower the bid to as low as you can go to stay on the first page. If it's $.05 per click you will get 500 hits.

    What you want to find out is what is the price per click that makes a profit and still gets you on the front page for say candles.

    You test in three blocks of $25.

    with such a small ad budget you need to focus on the products that EVERY witch buys.

    I'm sure it would be Boy Toys but that's a loss leader and we are out to make profits here.

    Good Luck

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    (Attention deficit afflicted people can scroll by this unabashedly long post)

    I'd say the most bang for the buck is Inktomi. For the listing fee, you get UNLIMITED clicks!! On the downside, you have to optimize for Inktomi, and they recently changed their algo.

    One thing: If your listing would be buried under a bunch of directory listings on their partner sites, there is no point in having an Ink listing even if you get #1 in Ink. You could be under 200 directory listings, for a REAL rank of 201. So make sure that the keyphrase/keyword you aim at is pretty free of directory listings before bothering with Ink. (Ink=Inktomi, not printer ink)

    Another thing. Fact: both Oversure and Inktomi say they don't want affiliate sites.

    Other half of that fact: One is currently capable of enforcing that, and one is not. Take a guess as to which one is (usually) not [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Optimizing for Inktomi is a bit harder now, though...gone are the days of beating the guy in the #1 slot just by counting how many times he used his keywords...and adding another instance to your page. That was sweet apples while it lasted, though!

    I haven't fully cracked the new algo but it definitely has lost its taste for lots of instances of keywords. It seems to prefer more non-keyword text than it used to, not just less use of keywords in terms of numbers. But there are OTHER things at work which I have not pinned down. (And no, I don't think the user response thingy is the "other" thing.)

    But for $29 or so (for the first URL, it's been so long since I put in my first URL that I forgot the exact price for the 1st), you can take months to figure the new algo out and still make plenty!

    As for OVERSURE, ARGH, My patience for them is what's Over, and my account there is empty. But if you can get in there, and want to, here's some tips that I learned from before they took an entire case of Stupid Pills at once...10 clicks in 2 weeks is TOO FEW, they can do ya a lot better than that, even at a cheap 5c/click (unless you bid on some overly popular category, or one that has anything to do with money ["Money" anything is always bid out the wazoo]).

    More common is around 100 hits/month from One listing, with each grouping of related listings in a mildly popular category bringing in 1,000-2,000 hits/month (combined effect of the entire group of listings--not just one listing).

    If a category doesn't have at least FIFTY listings to bid on (that'd be one "grouping" of related listings), it is usually not a good candidate for PPC. Try for 70. (Note: Even a term that gets only 5 searches/month qualifies for this calculation!)

    Of course, the HASH FACTOR of OverSure also needs to be factored in. SERIOUSLY! A $5 profit on 5, 5c clicks (for instance) is not nearly so sweet if you figure in the time spent dealing with their BS.

    For instance...If you spend an hour complaining about them, that $5 profit just became five dollars AN HOUR which is too damn little! And if you add in the time you spend THINKING ABOUT your listings in Over due to Over's idiotic rejections (say another 1 1/2 hours, you end up making about TWO DOLLARS AN HOUR or thereabouts in Actual Profit for that $5 commission!

    THE HASH FACTOR COSTS YOU MONEY in lost productivity and time spent thinking about THAT when you could have been thinking about how to promote the next item!

    It's also a lot HARDER to make Real Money on OverSure nowadays because they REJECT so many listings now! If you submit 70 listings and they reject 63 of them, that leaves you with 7...not enough to bother with, most of the time. 7 may bring in a couple of sales, but it's in the sevenTY that the gold is.

    Despite this dissing of Over, I cannot guarantee results with Inktomi or any other place either. But at Ink, there's a better chance of success...and if it doesn't work, you're only out $29, and you can switch to promoting a different page with them--without triggering a massive hosing of your other listings!

    Oh yeah, I forgot the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF PPC BIDDING:

    <font size="7">BID CHEAP!!! 5c!</font>

    If you can't get seen for a particular term at 5c, don't bid up. There will be plenty of little terms where that 5c bid will show high enough to add up into something. That's why it's important to bid on LOTS of terms--so you can bid Cheap and not worry about it if somebody else is in the top tier.

    Oh, and NEVER DO A BID WAR UNLESS YOU DON'T NEED THAT SHIRT YOU'VE GOT ON, because you will lose it if you get into a bidding war! Let the competition bid up and lose THEIR shirts, instead.

    [ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Eeek :eek:

    I was just going to log off but then I saw THIS:

    "Put $25 into keywords - wicca, wiccan, pagan, witchcraft, new age, and religion on GoClick.~Fred"

    If you want a bunch of FREE CONTENT SEEKERS, just do that. Cause that's what you'll get--people seeking info about wicca, wiccans, pagans, witchcraft, new age, and religion.

    But if you want BUYERS, use keywords which pertain to the PRODUCTS--NOT the USERS.

    Thank GoTo, from before they became Over, for tipping me off to that one. I tested it out and found their assertion was correct.

    Too bad GoTo took the stupid pills and not only forgot its name but also buried all the decent marketing info they once had under that bunch of dreck they call the "revised relevancy standards"!

    [ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

  12. #12
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Thank you for the help, everyone!



    [ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: SSanf ]

  13. #13
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    Hi Ssanf
    google has entered the pay-per-click arena too.. you can buy those little ads at the side by bidding 5c+ per click, works out much cheaper that their old pay for impressions system.. you can set up ads instantly, no waiting for review, I think it's much better than overture, and unlike Findwhat you will pick up traffic.. this is the url https://adwords.google.com/select/ for their new 'select' (ppc) ads

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    SSanf,

    If you could make the budget $179.00 I'll teach you how to get 10K imps and pay only 5 cents per sale.

    PM ME

    Haiko

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    [QUOTEIf you could make the budget $179.00 I'll teach you how to get 10K imps and pay only 5 cents per sale.

    PM ME

    QUOTE]

    Haiko,

    Is this a secret?

    Doc

  16. #16
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    has to be 5 cents per click surely?

  17. #17
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Doc Sawyer and Potato,

    Kind of a secret and, no not per click, I want to share it with real people and members, not the world (we get 5K hits per hour).

    PM ME if you wnat to know my plan.

    Haiko

  18. #18
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    I'm with Leader -- best bang for the buck at Inktomi. Until Inktomi and Google go away, I'm completely phasing out the PPC stuff (keep a few things at goclick... it's just so cheap).

    I also agree with Leader about NOT bidding on general wiccan words -- go for product names.

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>go for product names<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree, only pay for traffic that know what it wants to buy

  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>best bang for the buck at Inktomi<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Maybe not for long, now that LookSmart is looking to go PPC. I wonder how would that affect the Inktomi Paid Inclusion listings at MSN, already behind 3 Overture listings, a gazillion LookSmart Wed Directory Sites, and even some Inktomi Best Of Web sites and MSN Featured Sites.

    OTOH, and naturally enough, the other question would be whether LS would now allow affiliate sites to participate in bidding.


    Cheers,
    T2

  21. #21
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe not for long, now that LookSmart is looking to go PPC. I wonder how would that affect the Inktomi Paid Inclusion listings at MSN, already behind 3 Overture listings, a gazillion LookSmart Wed Directory Sites, and even some Inktomi Best Of Web sites and MSN Featured Sites.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The "trick" is, not to use inktomi submissions to promote items that have those kind of listings. There's still tons of key phrases where you can get the Number 1 listing. Generic phrases, no. Highly targeted phrases, yes.

    And with highly targeted phrases come the people with their wallets already open.

  22. #22
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Best bang for your buck.

    If Haiko isn't kidding around I'd say that's the best but besides that a one week subscription to wordtracker.com can't be beat.

  23. #23
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    hi all,

    just a couple of things,

    firstly, dynamoo, did you get my pm?

    secondly, i had listings in all the ppcs until recently but i got booted from overture and non of the others seem to deliver ANY traffic even though i had 1000's of listings

    third, ssanf, your store is not very witchy, i can see that everyone in the world will use that script but IMHO it just seems to be one link after another, i click on one catagory and it sends me to another sub catagory and another and there doesnt seem to be much at the end of the line. plus it stalled a couple of times when i used it but it looks like it will be good after beta and coolshopping will make a bundle

    good luck, Austin (stirred not shaken) Powers

  24. #24
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Yup I got the PM.

    I think whichever (WITCHever?) promotion you go with, Kanoodle is a good plan, if you have a wide enough net of search times and bid high enough (but not more than 2-5 cents!). But go for a mix of approaches anyway.

  25. #25
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    Looksmart has had a (kind of) PPC thing going for a while, but it has nothing to do with their partnership with MSN. I also believe that the Inktomi/MSN partnership is separate from MSN's partnership with Looksmart. Thus the Looksmart PPC stuff shouldn't effect what appears in MSN.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the LS/MSN tie in will not last the year in any case. But this really is just MY personal feeling, based on nothing much more than that.

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