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  1. #1
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    From another thread:

    For the sake of link popularity and search engine rank does anyone know if it makes a difference when you have the same link exchange on multiple pages? ie. index.html ,cats.html and dogs.html all having links to the same site.

    Does search engine rank increase when you have multiple links coming in from the same site? Not to be confused with just googles page rank system.

  2. #2
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    .

    [ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: SpaceBandit ]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Are you sure that was it Space Bandit? Reason I ask is because I have exchanged links with quite a few sites and we have the links on everypage of the site, we have been calling them affilates and linking to them from everypage, and I haven't noticed anyone going down, as a matter of fact, my site has been climbing every index.

  4. #4
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    I have a large client here in the UK that I look after two domains for. One site has on average 2 links per page deep linking into a particular directory of the other site. We have had no problems with PageRank on this. Indeed, doesn't affiliate marketing rely on exactly this premise - lots of links from different pages all pointing at one or more merchants.

    I can tell from previous posts, SpaceBandit, that you have a different approach to SEO than me but I have to agree with qball, it does seem unlikely that this is the cause.

    However, what I would like to see in this thread is a quality discussion of terminology because it seems to me that the terms link popularity and PageRank are often used interchangeably when they are not the same thing.

  5. #5
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    I have to agree with SpaceBandit based on my personal experience. I can't say conclusively that it was this type of linking that caused me problems, but it all seems to fit.

    Don't the Google guidelines specifically warn against using this type of technique to increase rank (or popularity or whatever)? If so, they will very likely get you eventually, unless you have stumbled on to a way to foil its detection.

  6. #6
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    [Edited to follow on from last post]: I don't think there is anything in the Google guidelines that prevents this. Google does warn against doorway pages and trying to artificially inflate PR and so on. However, none of these are true in this case.

    As far as I can tell, link popularity is a simply measure of how many inbound links a site has. Obviously, the more links, the more link popularity (with some caveats). In Heyder's example, I would suspect that the link pop. of the site being linked to would increase, dependent on the search engine. However, two or more links from one page into another site would, I expect be counted only once.

    Many search engines do use link popularity in their ranking algorithim - Fast/Lycos , Google, Teoma, Inktomi for example. How they use this depends on the search engine itself and is regulated by other factors (PageRank, themeing, etc.).

    It is early days for Teoma and I may be offbase on this, but having researched the results, I believe that link popularity does play a big part in Teoma's algo. However, it seems that these links count greatly if they are from thematically similar sites. Hence, the preponderance of large, well-respected resource type sites at the top of the SERPs. Off theme links seem to be pretty much ignored here.

    AlltheWeb also uses link popularity when ranking sites. I've heard a lot of views on how the data makes a difference and I'm no expert on this search engine, but I suspect that it isn't much more complex than site A has 100 links in and site B has 2000 so site B gets a boost..However, if anyone has some better data, then I will be interested in hearing it.

    Inktomi - incredibly complex is Inktomi as it actually runs several databases, the most important of which is BestofWeb. This is Ink's select database of the best sites on the web and forms the basis of their web map. Obviously in order to get into the BestofWeb database, you need quality links from major sites (like Dmoz or Yahoo) and sites already in it. In this database, link popularity has a role to play in rankings for your pages, though its overall role in getting good ranks for this engine is far less clear.

    Generally, if it is competitive, you won't get a top ten until you are in BoW and you do this by getting good links in.

    Google - uses a variation on link popularity - this is the infamous PageRank which is intended as a measure of the relative importance of a page both to the rest of the web and to the the rest of that site. I don't want this to be about PageRank, but PR is only one part of Google's algo.

    Hope this clears up the difference between PR and link popularity.

    [ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: markymark ]

  7. #7
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    " Google does warn against doorway pages and trying to artificially inflate PR and so on. "
    For me this means that google robot is not able to eleminate doorwaypages. I only warn from things I can not handle, and here this means that google robot is indexing and ranking every page with content, keywords and so on very high.
    Jonny

  8. #8
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    My PR was destroyed about 3 months ago.

    I didn't know wehther to change anything or not. I had been doing most of the things that people blamed for the disappearence. So I wasn't sure exactly what was causing it and what to do.

    Basically I sat tight, and now this month I have just noticed my PR HAS RETURNED!!!!!

    All the theories banging around, I think it was some sort of Google error, and they are bringing the sites back over time.

    My new PR is only 3 whereas it used to be 5 but I reckon that is because some of the people I swapped links with also lost their PR, and some of them are not back yet.

    So my advice is to sit tight, and don't compromise your websites, because if you do you may regret it when they come back.

  9. #9
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    I would agree with Nick - if you have a zero PR, sit tight, but Google have pretty much admitted that this was a penalty that caught up lots of sites unfairly, so they are reviewing it on an ongoing basis.

  10. #10
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    Nick,

    I'm glad to hear you got your ranking back. I am suffering through the PR0 now, but maybe it won't be so bad if it comes back in three months.

    When you said you sat tight, does that mean you left the links and whatever else might have caused the penalty alone? Or did you undo the crosslinking, etc?

  11. #11
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    I think if your sites are crosslinked, then that is one thing; but if they are crosslinked in such a way that the large majority of inbound and outbound links for each sites are from other sites in the network, then it is time to review your strategy.

  12. #12
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    When I lost my PR on my sites, I went through and removed any duplicate pages, and any pages that had a considerable amount of content that was the same on my other sites.

    The other thing I did was contact Google and asked them why I had lost my PR. I did not get an answer other than the auto response, but it might have been read and helped.

    I didn't really touch any of the links, because I didn't really have that many link exchanges, and the ones I did have were all pretty well relevant to the content on my sites. I did not touch any internal links, from my pages to my pages, and I was going to change my outgoing links but decided not to after some deliberation.

    What I have done now is go through all my links and remove anybody who has absolutely no relevancy to the content on my site, and all those who also have a PR of zero.

    I think doing that can help, but I still think the main reason why I got my PR back is beacuse they are going through and reviewing the sites over time.

    Incidentally one of my sites got its PR back 1 month after losing it, and I didn't touch that one at all, and the other two that lost their rankings came back after 3 months.

    Hope it helps.

  13. #13
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    I'm confused. Previous posts had stressed that we shouldn't be trading links -- Google treats this as a quasi "Link Farm" approach, and severely penalizes us for it.

    Okay, but if you put my link on your site and I put your link on my site, isn't that the same thing?

    Previously there were a number of horror stories about this.

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