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  1. #1

  2. #2
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    No offense to SSanf, but that article is hogwash...

    "In order to secure prominent listings within the Google engine, you will need to achieve these three basic needs:
    1. Abundance of Links
    2. Significant Unique Content
    3. Ability to Update"


    1. Hogwash. I have at least two sites that are only linked from one other site that each have a goodly volume of top ten rankings.

    2. hahahahahahahahahahaha... unless "unique" means a unique collection of sales copy provided by the merchant.

    3. I don't even know what that means. Although he goes on to say "If your site has a total of 12 pages today, it
    Should easily have 30+ by the end of the year. "
    Now that's just pure laziness.

    and don't get me started on the grammar behind "achieving needs"...

  3. #3
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to agree with Cedric. A page (typically a content page) with good keywords and lots of inbound links will tend to stay where it is with a high ranking without having to muck about. I Have pages that rank consistently highly for content and stay there.

    The inbound links is Google 101 though. I guess if you don't realise that then you're in trouble [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] How do you get inbound link popularity? Well all of my most popular pages are (legitimate) deeplinks to content from the ODP. I'd say that an ODP listing is always the most important factor in building link popularity.

    Having slagged that off, the article about "Surviving the Google Update" linked to on the same page looks pretty good.

  4. #4
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hogwash. I have at least two sites that are only linked from one other site that each have a goodly volume of top ten rankings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Cedric, before you call the point hogwash, I'd see a couple of factors to consider - how competitive the niches are for the terms where you're ranking well, and the page rank of that "one other site" you're linking from.

    You have mentioned that you have a content site that is a page-rank heavyweight. I recall you saying you wouldn't trade front-page links with anyone who was less than PR8. You won't get there without an "abundance of links"! If you're using that site for any cross-linking within your own little empire, there will be a LOT of "hand-me-down" page rank sloshing around which would boost your shopping site(s) as much or more than links from dozens of lesser sites. (Which is what most of the rest of us have to work with!)

    Just a thought ...

    Elisabeth Archambault

  5. #5
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    That's part of my point, Elisabeth. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    He just says "abundance of links" (although he gives passing note to "seen-as-spam" no-nos) and "abundance of links" is NOT the holy grail. You'd be better served to get a handful of links from sites with high PR than thousands of links from sites that aren't even listed in google.

    And his point, IMO, goes on to perpetuate the All-Important-PR Myth that has site owners ignoring PAGE OPTIMIZATION, which, IMO, is waaaaaaaay more important than PR and is something the author barely gives passing notice.

    Tell me what "competitive" is and I'll tell you if I've got any top rankings for competitve terms. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    My point was that the abundance of links is still there behind that "handful of links from sites with high PR", so you've got to be careful about calling the concept hogwash. But you're right that the author didn't talk enough about what makes a quality link.

    You're also right that it could take a ton of links from "little" pages to give the same page rank boost as a few heavyweights, but one is not necessarily better off with the latter scenario. Having just a few links leaves you more vulnerable to fluctuations if a site editor decides to replace your link with something else. Having lots of little links would help to dilute this risk. When you own the high-PR site it's not a risk, but for the rest of us it would be! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I'd define a competitive term as a word or phrase which shows clear evidence that other sites are optimizing / actively trying to rank well for it.

  7. #7
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    I was hoping that the search engine experts in here would comment on that article. I know that there are more who inhabit ABW.

    Come on, join the party! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    Elisabeth, only becuase I so value and respect your opinion in general that am I still hanging in on this one. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Okay, I'll slide off "hogwash" (albeit, reluctantly [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]), but I can't be much more generous than "irresponsible and misleading". I think it's a baaaaad article for newbies to read.

    I do have a high-volume site and I can tell you that there are a LOT more people out there who have gotten the point about VOLUME of links than have gotten the "quality of links" or "spam no-nos"... I can tell you this because of the huge volume of canned link exchange requests I get and honestly, it seems like the problem grows on a weekly basis. I quit even responding to the majority of such requests over a year ago and now, I don't even read them.

    Maybe it's partly "old-fart" syndrome that makes me so jaded on this point. In MY day [cough cough], when people wanted to exchange links, it was because they thought your site was cool, or because they thought their visitors would like it, or because thousands of other legit reasons that had nothing to do with reading some poorly written SE optimization tips that told them the more links in they had, the more money they could make.

    Yeah, I have PR requirements for links on my front page, but NOWHERE else one my site. And that front page requirement is just ONE of several criteria (relevancy is another) to limit the number of links from the front page (EVERYBODY wants a front page link).

    And while lots of people write these articles about the importance of "abundance" of links, very people write good articles on "how to request a link".

    And now I'm babbling, so I'll shut up. ;^)

  9. #9
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    Cedric, I'd be interested in your thoughts if you had any comments on this article.
    http://buckworks.com/articles/link-exchanges.html

    Have I stressed relevance enough?

    I'd be particularly interested in thoughts about what -- if anything -- would make a good impression on an "old fart". (Consider that most of the folks who write to you won't know they're writing to an "old fart"!) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  10. #10
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    Hmmn..article isn't too impressive really. All bones and no meat - I have read the author's stuff at WMW and he does know his business, but this article is a little lazy.

    The defining factor in using links to boost ranking in Google, I think, is the words in the link text. Everything else is secondary.

  11. #11
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    Um, Markymark, are you referring to my article or the one mentioned at the beginning of this thread?

  12. #12
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    Elisabeth, it's a good page and I do think you stress relevance enough.

    You know, I've started six different messages here, all with my thoughts on what Gets My Attention and I've deleted every one of those messages... I can't find a way to describe what gets my attention other than a "Genuine Request" -- someone who actually wants to link to my site because they like my site, they think their visitors will like my site, and they think my visitors will like theirs.

    That's not to suggest altruism -- but that the SE benefits of linking are SECOND to the reasons for a link request, NOT the reason for the request.

    I've seen every boilerplate that's out there (they never work), I've been chastised by people who proudly proclaim "I have a VERY high traffic site (averaging 500 visitors per day), you would be a fool not to exchange links!", I've had people claiming to link to me because of the great information I have about XYZ Car Service and will I link back to their XYZ Car Service site when my site is actually about XYZ Doggie Grooming... the list goes on and on...

    The ONLY requests I've responded to in the past couple of years have been requests from people I know and one genuine request from someone who knew my site, knew his own site, knew we were a good match and sent a very casual, informal, and genuine request.

    And genuine requests don't come with boilerplates or software automation. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  13. #13
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    Elisabeth,

    LOL - Sorry. The one mentioned at the start of the thread. I think I read your article a while back (I read most of the others) and would have emailed you then if I'd thought it was rubbish.

    Anyhow, my post refers to 'he'....unless there is something you are keeping very, very quiet, I am certain you are not a he.

  14. #14
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    Exclusivity! That's another part of it. The guy who wrote me said "We currently have one more 88x31 slot available on our frontpage."

    I looked at his page and there were just four 88x31 slots (not 75). I KNEW I was the only person getting this email and I KNEW he had looked at my site in order to make this offer. And I KNEW he had something of value to offer.

    Make me feel special when you ask me for a link. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  15. #15
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Cedric
    Will you put a link to my site on your front page? I will give you one back but it will have to be on one of my unvisited pages as I don't want to waste visitors. You are very very special [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I guess this will not get me one? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  16. #16
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    Gordon! You are such a very very very good guesser. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  17. #17
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    I've read so much over the last five or six years about SE ranking that I don't know what to believe.It seems I can get six different views from six different sites that specialize in this.Here's one I would like for any of you to explain or verify if you would.
    Header tags? In one article I read that SEs
    (Google being the main one) loves header tags.the author recommended using up to 3 header tags per page with five or six key words to each.Also in the same article he recommended www.linkstoyou.com for increasing links.Can any of you answer these two?An example of a header tag would be great if this is true also I would be concerned about the link site being the type that may get you banned? Thanks in advance for any help on this.

  18. #18
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    Smont,

    The article you refer to sounds old to me or written by someone who doesn't really know their stuff. LinksToYou is best avoided at all costs - it is a link farm and Google will penalise you for using it.

    As for header tags. I guess this means h1, h2 and so on. Using these (preferrably with font sizes controlled by CSS) will give you a little boost, yes. I don't know about 3 heading tags of five-six words each though. I'll have to try it - I tend to use only two heading tags and it works for me.

  19. #19
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    markymark, wouldn't you only incur a penalty from using linkstoyou if you actually link back to them (or their free4all pages)? My understanding was that bad incoming links can't hurt you (they just get ignored), but bad outgoing links can cause you penalties.

    Otherwise, it would be too easy for competitors to destroy your pr... is that wrong?

    NOT that I'm suggesting using linkstoyou... heaven forefend.

    [ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: Cedric ]

  20. #20
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    @ markymark & smont

    markymark you are dead right. If you do a search back to last years postings you will see I was kicked off Google for using Linkstoyou. I know this because I contacted them and was told that was the reason they also explained to me if I removed my site from Linkstoyou they would reinstate me in their search engine, this they did.

    @ smont
    do like markymark says and stay away from linkstoyou.

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