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  1. #1
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    I found that as topic in a thread at geek/talk:
    ==========================================


    Should we block all foreign traffic?

    <Aside>I feel like starting up some controversy today.</Aside>

    Since advertisers are only willing to pay for U.S. Traffic, and since we have to pay for bandwidth no matter where the traffic is coming from, should we block foreign traffic from accessing our sites?

    What do you think?


    ===========================================

    What do people on this DB think on this?

    Jonny


    (It is not directly belonging to cj.com but we all have foreign traffic also at cj.com)

    [ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: Jonny ]

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Jonny,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>(It is not directly belonging to cj.com but we all have foreign traffic also at cj.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    True, but this would be a site traffic issue, as such, I'll move it there.

    Haiko

  3. #3
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    I have considered something similar. It is fairly easy to detect non-US traffic using just the first octlet of the IP address. I have also considered detecting AOL traffic.

    I didn't intend to actually block either one, but I did consider redirecting them elsewhere. I never get a legitimate sale from certain countries. Some other countries (U.K., Australia) would do better with a site geared specifically for them with proper currency, English, etc. AOL users are not welcome to one of my sites because they are WAY to much trouble for what they spend.

    What I considered was IP redirection to other sites as appropriate for both the AOL problem and the non U.S. sites problem. The only thing that has stopped me is the fear that the search engines will detect the IP delivery and ban me because they assume the IP delivery is for cloaking purposes.

    Comments anyone?

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sometimes it is a good idea to block certain countries, the easiest way is via the browser's character set and redirect via java ... have it go to an affiliate link for some PPC SE to covering any loses if it was PPC generated.

    Haiko

  5. #5
    Outsourced Program Manager Bryan Rhodes's Avatar
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    We just had this same discussion at BackcountryStore.com. There are certain countries which we won't ship to such as Indonesia, Pakistan, Middle East. So we tried to block traffic from them with mixed results. I think it would be worthwhile for Affiliates to block traffic from countries they know their merchants won't ship to. But certainly not all foreign countries.

    I'd love to hear more about the technical side of how to do this.

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>have it go to an affiliate link for some PPC SE<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ahem, as someone who advertises in PPC, I want to vigorously protest this suggestion. What makes you think I want to pay for traffic that you don't think is worthwhile even having on your site????

    Elisabeth Archambault

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Elisabeth,

    I advertise on PPCs also, should we just send them to Google :confused:

    Haiko

  8. #8
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    I don't have an alternative to suggest right now, but I'm certainly not comfortable with the thought of (allegedly) dud traffic being directed to where it will take money out of someone else's pockets.

  9. #9
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    As you might not know the web was built from people claiming the freedom of science and that's what the web still is. The web is not a warehouse or a $$$machine. The web is free, and if somebody claims restrictions to that freedom he wants to go back to the middelages. A lot of European Politicians blow into that horn: we must have trading restrictions for the US and for other countries. You give them a reason to do so when you are thinking so provincial. You block the web, we block your industry. To whome would you sell on the web, if you have millions of unemployed people because your industry cannot sell abroad? Your earnings and your richdom comes directly from foreign countries.
    You always have to remember US are only a region - and a small too - in the world. Don't think so provincial.

    Jonny

    [ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: Jonny ]

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Jonny,

    Provinciality has nothing to do with it!

    Targeting starts with a PPC or optimized keyword!

    This business is all based on hand picking, merchants, affiliates and customers ... there is nothing wrong with any educated marketer, deciding where their advertising efforts go or by whom they are seen, that level of niche marketing is they only key to true success!

    It is either the shotgun approach or the arrow in the BullsEye ... stop wasting money!

    Haiko

  11. #11
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    One company that does this already (& has for quite some time) is Tupperware.
    They have a program at linkshare & I was going to promote a lot of their individual products, but when I clicked on their shopping pages, I'm taken automatically to this page.
    Quite a royal PITA, because after much screwing around, I managed to put two whole links up (which had their first sale yesterday).

    I can see some practical uses for this type of software, but lets not forget those that may have a legitimate reason for visiting the US site.

    [ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: Pete ]

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Pete,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but lets not forget those that may have a legitimate reason for visiting the US site.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Absolutely, but with shipping costs on XYZ product to abc country why bother?
    If I can [b ]intelligently [/b] redirect my to buy from lets say... Crucial Europe than Crucial US .... why not? Targeting once again!

    Tupperware(US)is not geared up for international sales(?)... that is their corporate short sidedness, not affiliates!

    Haiko
    PS. Am I going to push computer parts from TigerDirect or Car goodies from JCWhitney to Non US users? Geez .... that is just a waste of money and stupid to me!

  13. #13
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    Haiko,
    I totally agree with you. Crucial is a perfect example how this type of thing would work.
    But not every program has a non-US (or non-Europe etc) alternative.
    I would be happier to see overture redirect non-US traffic away.

    Another company that does this is Yahoo/Overture.
    The Overture sponsored listings that you all see on Yahoo aren't visible to us non-US folk. I know my listings are there, but unless I use anonymizer etc, I can't ever see them.
    This only happens on yahoo, so I'd imagine that it's one of their terms, not Over's, since a click is a click to Overture.

    Pete

    PS. totally agree.

  14. #14
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    Pete,
    you are telling stories. I can see every listing on yahoo you can see and I am not directed away nor from overture nor from yahoo nor from any other directory/ SE.
    It is provicially if you use your business in your street and not around your whole town. That's what US networks do if they do not accept foreign traffic. I cannot see anything educated in that. We as publishers shoud set pressure on the merchants to accept any traffic, than to allow them to come away with these restrictions. The next way - and I do this right now - is that I establish a German, French, Italian, Spanish Russian, Hungarian etc. branch of that stupid American merchant who wants not to sell to Europe. For me that ist very good. These then are mine earnings, and with that end we are again in the middelages of commerce. Stupid world.

    Jonny

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Jonny,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>branch of that stupid American merchant who wants not to sell to Europe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It is the merchant and not the affiliate ... I send traffic where it should convert, that is MY job as an intelligent affiliate!

    Why send a visitor from Hungary to a US merchant when they will never pay the S&H?

    Haiko
    PS. Everyone say it with me now ... T-A-R-G-E-T-I-N-G!

  16. #16
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    LOL.. ok Jonny.
    To see what I mean, compare these two screenshots. Both are for the search term "long distance". My ISP's domain name is clearly recognisable as non-US traffic. It's .com.au
    This one is what yahoo looks like when I use anonymizer.com. While this one is what yahoo looks like when I go directly to the page. Notice there are no sponsored listings being shown?
    There is no point these ads being shown to me, as they are for a US audience, which I am clearly not.

    It's the same with the adwords I've selected on google. I've never seen one of my own ads, BUT this is a good thing. It means that my $$$'s are not being wasted on non-targeted traffic.
    & YES.. i do view location as a form of targetting.

  17. #17
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    If the market were to open up, many companies would wharehouse their products and distribute them from within other nations. This would lesson shipping expences and make it worth the price to consumers. The problem is it will take a good ten years for even larger companies to invest their money in these markets. If the profits are there, they will come but it's going to be a while.

  18. #18
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    What burns me is the lumping of Canadian shoppers in with all the other "overseas" shoppers.
    For crying out loud, I can hop in my car and drive an hour and a half and be shopping in the U.S. personally. Why can't I get some U.S. merchants to ship to me?
    Sorry to say it, but some American merchants can be very short sighted.

  19. #19
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    That's the insideous thing about them Canadians. It's hard to tell them apart from the rest of us. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's the insideous thing about them Canadians. It's hard to tell them apart from the rest of us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's the master plan, eh? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    EH! comon now Heather [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's the insideous thing about them Canadians. It's hard to tell them apart from the rest of us<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> us clean living Canadians are nowhere near as interbred as you shower of hillybillies [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  22. #22
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    I mentioned this in another thread, I'll mention it here -- FEDERAL TRADE REGULATIONS.

    Selling to countries outside the US can require special licensing and lots of paperwork -- even for Canada. You may be able to drive across the border and buy something, that doesn't mean I can ship the same product over that same border.

    A few years ago, I worked in a software company (simple dinky software, no encryption issues) -- we could NOT sell to Canada.

    A LOT of companies don't know the regulations, don't want to know, don't want to deal with licensing. Let's see, I can risk my entire business to ship to Canada without the proper paperwork, I can hassle with getting the proper paperwork for the 3 Canadian sales I'll have next year, or I can not ship to Canada.... hmmm, let me take about two minutes to figure out which is most cost-effective for my business.

    If it were just a matter of throwing a couple of extra stamps on a box, I'd agree with your complaints. But it's not.

  23. #23
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    Haiko,
    this is really what I mean: US merchants are only thinking regionally and not worldwide. They use the web the same kind like they use ads in newpaper on radio or on tv, but the web is something really different. We publishers cannot think regionally we must force the merchants to evaluate possibilities of promoting their service or goods worldwide. If we let them come away with that not only we lose. I personally buy more from the US than I earn with my US traffic. I buy clothing for my children, handbags and accessories, shoes and so on. Of course sometimes shipping costs are high, but I pay them for the feeling to live in ONE WORLD.

    Pete,
    I do not realize that when I try a yahoo search nor when I tried it anonymized. Perhaps it is a specific .au problem where your government has built up restrictions or censorship to the web.

    Heyder, Cedric,

    if we merchants want to establish restrictions too, the globalisation will never come, as we give the nationalist hardliners an argument to establish restrictions. I do not appreciate to live in a censored world, do you? As I mentioned I buy a lot in US and never had any difficulties to get the merchandise I bought, and even with taxes and shipping costs it is sometimes cheaper to pay the price. In my opinion the only thing to merchants not to deal with outside of USA is that they do not want to invest some money in an abroad division which is familar with all old trade regulations. I will give you an example for smaller goods: In no regulation paper it is mentionned that there are some regulations for sending gifts of "little value!!!!". No one cares for that.


    The bottomline: We publishers should not accept nor cry for restrictions as it is in the "OLD economy". The web is someting totally different from that.
    Jonny

  24. #24
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    >>I do not appreciate to live in a censored world, do you?<<

    Being blocked from buying Cheesy Poofs and CocoaPuffs is not censorship. There are many valid arguments for free and open world trade, this is not one of them.

    >>The bottomline: We publishers should not accept nor cry for restrictions as it is in the "OLD economy". The web is someting totally different from that.<<

    The web may be totally different from "something", but the bottomline for BUSINESS is STILL how much money you have or don't have at the end of the month. There will be a vast expanse of philosophies guarding the that bottom line, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the bottomline is anything more or less than dollar signs.

  25. #25
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    Cedric,
    think back some years: no one earned money from the web. If anybody at that time would have your thoughts about the web as a backyard burgershop the web would never have developed as it is today, and yes, it is censorship, if I want to buy a lollypop in Hongkong and the websitowner directs me to a website in Russia where they inform on hairloss. I still have to mention that the $$ in you pocket to 75% comes from people from abroad. Beginning with the oil ending with my purchases in USA. This guarantees a lot of employment to the USA, but if you intend to block the web, I will write to my Secretary of Industry to build up trading restrictions and a lot of people will write too. Is this what you want? censored and unemployed because of not wanting to spend some cents monthly for nonUS traffic? Are you really so nive that you think USA is the most interesting part of the world, and that if you build restriction we let you come away with that?

    Jonny

    [ 05-11-2002: Message edited by: Jonny ]

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