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  1. #1
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    I very cautiously started paying for a few keywords about a month ago. Now I see that I really have to get into it a little heavier because it is evident you can't rely on google. So if you have a a lot of product pages should you aim for at least getting one PPC keyword for each product? I understand bidding low is important. When you all first started out how much money did you allow yourselves for advertising this way. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Cazzie [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  2. #2
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    Okay, I don't write this "ebook" all that often (it's too much WORK) but it's been awhile so here goes...

    >>Now I see that I really have to get into it a little heavier because it is evident you can't rely on google.

    The Low-Level Manager bot has shown it's true nature--capricious and unpredictable!

    >>>So if you have a a lot of product pages should you aim for at least getting one PPC keyword for each product?

    BWAA HAA HAAA Try for SEVENTY per product! I'm NOT kidding!!! Grab as many as you can. Only a few will pull anything and it's nearly impossible to predict which ones those'll be. So carpet bomb the place with as many relevant keywords as you can. Use the OverSure suggestion tool or Wordtracker whether or not you actually use Oversure as your engine. Bid on anything relevant that's got enough hits to show up!

    >>I understand bidding low is important.

    Great! That understanding will enable you to know where your shirt is (in other words, you won't lose it if you bid low enough! I will note that Oversure is too expensive for certain items at 5c/click, though, just to emphasize how low is LOW!)

    >>When you all first started out how much money did you allow yourselves for advertising this way.

    I started out with $25 at Oversure, but since I never let the account run out I guess you could say Infinity was what I allowed myself. BUT, when I first started out I had so few products that it took two months to use up that first $25! (I haven't put any NEW listings on Oversure in ages but I still have hundreds of old ones at the old cheapie prices--needless to say it costs a lot more than $25/month to keep that running NOW!)

    I do have to admit it was really hairy at first, and sometimes the pay came in just in time to keep the listings up. The first couple of products (140 listings or so) didn't take too much money, but I kept putting up more. So the Oversure bill ballooned up before the checks could come in. Timing it better [as opposed to cramming up as many listings as humanly possible ASAP] can avoid this, but once you see that a CR is happening you won't want to quit! My main problem was I should have waited for the checks/deposits to come in before adding listings.

    But it all worked out and now it's just humming along with little maintenance...Over has turned into such a pr|ck that I don't put my new stuff there so it's just a matter of keeping the account funded for the old listings.

    So basically I TECHNICALLY "allowed myself" infinity but IN PRACTICE it started out at about $25-50 a month (except for those first 2 months) and now it's in the multi-hundreds. It's stayed about the same since I quit adding new listings. I will note that it was up to $50 within 4 months...

    I always try to keep all paid accounts ON at all times. If it's a choice of not listing new ones or letting the listings go offline, I would prefer to list less because offline listings make you NO MONEY!

    Some have reported that there isn't that much difference if their listings go offline, all I can say to that is that something's drastically wrong with that picture. If you do it right, PPCs can bring in a substantial chunk of money. My first guess is that those people bid too high in the first place (burning up the cash while bringing relatively few hits), or that they didn't put in nearly enough listings in the first place.

    Also I will note that there are a few listings that just vacuum in the clicks. I couldn't hope to predict which categories that'll be (I only know of one in particular), but if you hit one you'll know it real quick because you'll suddenly have lots of traffic--and use up the $$$ in a hurry! Any traffic-gusher listings should be closely monitored so you don't lose your shirt! For instance, with mine, at 2c bids I was losing money--I had to lower the bids to a penny to make it profitable. And I couldn't put it on Over, period, if I was doing it now because of the 5c min.

    >>Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

    Other advice includes to use lots of engines so you're not Over a barrel if one turns into a suicidal yo-yo and starts denying your new stuff/kicking out your old stuff. FindWhat sends a fair amount of hits, but despite their desperation move (see the Parasiteware forum), the amount of traffic coming from there is shrinking.

    Heyder's offered a great deal to ABW members in another thread (I forgot which one, search for his posts)--as in, Free Listings so the price is nice [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Then there's Ah-Ha, or Har-Har as it should be called. Har Har's got great service, unfortunately what they don't have is traffic! 600 listings, cost $1.40 I think they brought in 300 hits last month. Har-Har.com, indeed! LOL...

    Don't bother bidding at Bay9, you'll have an easier time getting a Lead Fee out of them as an affiliate than a hit from their PPC as a customer...

    A couple of others have been favorably mentioned on these boards but I forgot which ones although Kanoodle stands out in my mind as one of them. The thread's somewhere in this forum (Building Site Traffic) if you want to hound it out...

    HTH

    [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

  3. #3
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    It's not exactly that low bidding is important, what matters is that you keep your PPC bids amounts below the amount that your average new visitor is worth to you. You'll have to watch your stats and do some math to decide how high you can bid and still have money in your pocket after paying for your clickthroughs.

    Start low, but don't be afraid to raise your bids if your results justify it. Your profit margin would be a bit narrower, but you'd have more traffic. The best balance point for each URL you promote will depend on several factors - how many visitors click through to the merchant, how well the merchant closes sales, how well-targeted the terms are that you're bidding on, etc.

    You should aim to have bids on several dozen words and phrases for each page you want to promote with PPC. This will take some brainstorming, but one of the ways to make PPC work is to find phrases to bid on that searchers use but other advertisers overlook.

    Hint: for your PPC accounts use a credit card that gives points or some kind of reward for using it. As long as you keep your account paid promptly, it won't cost extra, and gives you a few extra goodies.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  4. #4
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    what about findwhat.com? and, if I don't keep my listing in the top whatever number it is, how many ntworks will my listing be on. I see myself in a catch 22. I have always bid way to high, trying to stay in the top 4, knowing that my listings will fall on the vast networks. If I bid to low where will my listings show? How will people find me? help! I think I understand what you're doing Leader; if you bid enough keywords, you will be found, just not all at once - right?

  5. #5
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    It's important NOT to be suckered into paying too much for your bids just to be in the top three or whatever. Figure out a bidding level that will be profitable, bid up to that amount, and leave it at that. Better to have a hundred people find you at a bidding level that is profitable for you, than a thousand finding you by means of clickthroughs that are too expensive.

    The advantage of thinking of lots of relevant words and phrases to bid on is that you have a better chance to be in the top three now and then to get the "premium exposure" without paying ridiculous amounts for it.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  6. #6
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    1-3 cents at findwhat.com - 95 key word bids? am I headed in the right direction, with the right strategy?

    BTW, Happy new year Elisabeth

  7. #7
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    I just started on PPC with kanoodle. Seem to get some traffic. I have put in about 300 words. Have tried to find some of the "off" keywords that arent real generic and really expensive. Mostly the 1 - 3 cent range. Taking a close look at cost vs return
    Not huge made either LOL
    Last month aprox $1.75 cost of PPC,. Income $2.17. Think a nickle of that was from ABW too. Now if I could get some of those merchants to actually close a sale or three. Not losing your shirt real quick is my goal. The learning curve will grow and increase profits as we go. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    I said...
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1-3 cents at findwhat.com - 95 key word bids? am I headed in the right direction, with the right strategy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    bump

  9. #9
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    Yes, you're headed in the right direction as long as your traffic converts well enough, on average, to justify 3ยข clickthroughs. You'll have to watch your stats to determine that.

    I've stopped all my advertising with FindWhat for the moment, because FindWhat uses WhenU and I don't want my links being displayed by WhenU. That's something to consider if you're upset about WhenU stealing commissions - it's a matter of integrity that you can't have it both ways.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  10. #10
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    Big Chuck--you said:
    "I think I understand what you're doing Leader; if you bid enough keywords, you will be found, just not all at once - right?"

    RIGHT, that's exactly the point!!! Whether one or the other gets into the top 3 isn't something I consider at all. It happens sometimes, and that's a bonus. But the Real Point is to cast as wide a net as possible for as cheap as possible!

    You also said "1-3 cents at findwhat.com - 95 key word bids? am I headed in the right direction, with the right strategy?"

    Yep. I will note that 1c bids do have a bit of a hinderance. I think it's some psychological thing people have about a penny... BUT there are times it would be stupid to bid more, like when you can get a high listing for 1c!

    As for FW and WhenU...

    From a business perspective, it's dangerous when engines deal with places like that because it can spike your traffic--with DUD clicks. When they had that Ezula deal going, it cost a bunch and by the time it came out WTF was going on I think it had eaten 40 bucks...and sales hadn't changed any.

    BUT, there hasn't been any increase in traffic from the WhenU deal--in fact, there was a definite DECREASE in activity over the last month or so. So if anything, this latest bit is working backwards for FindWhat.

    Personally I must say that suicide is NOT a viable alternative to getting murdered and not advertising a revenue site is indeed business suicide! Whether to advertise there is a decision I continue to base on market factors: Can they deliver traffic that converts? How easy is it to get traffic from other sources (TRY getting something into OverSure, har har har)?

    Usually I agree with Elisabeth on things but boycotting places that are making me serious money is not one of them. It reminds me of boycotting the Olympics over political matters: The only thing that happens from that is that the boycotter doesn't get any medals! The politics stay the same until resolved by other means.

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's something to consider if you're upset about WhenU stealing commissions - it's a matter of integrity that you can't have it both ways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well said.

  12. #12
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    Keywords work. The question to figure out is how many should you use.

    Jim Daniel's in book Make A Living Online says to use as many as you can afford - up 1,000 keywords if you can.

    The object being to average ONE click per day per keyword.

    However, I do it a different way. I check the 'generic' categories and see how many times they were searched.

    For example: The word 'horoscopes' get searched about 400,000 times every month.

    Then I see how much it costs per click to be on the first page. I want to be as high up on the page as I can get for as low a price per click I can. Perferably no more than the minimum of 5 cents if it's bendOverture but maybe a bit more if the thing I am selling converts very well.

    There are 40 listings on BendOver per page. So if everything was equal you would get 1 click thru for each 40 searches or 2.5% of the total searches. Normally, the higher up the page you get listed the higher the percentage of the total searches visit your site.

    However, you can overcome this fact with your Listing Copy: Such As "Click Here To Learn How To Buy (put in product or service name) And Save More Than 50%."

    In the example 'horoscopes' with 400,000 searches if I get 2.5% click thru, I can expect to be paying for 10,000 visitors. At 5 cents per click that's $500. I need to make $500 from those visitors to break even.

    If you make $10 per sale, then you need to make 50 sales for the 10,000 clicks to breakeven - 1/2 of 1%. If you make less than that you will lose money. Make more than that and you make a profit.

    I figure that I can get at least 1% click thru rate for every search on a keyword. Thus if the word is searched 100 times I will get 1 visitor to my page as long as I am listed on the first page.

    Thus if the word is searched 10,000, I expect I will get 100 visitors. So I expect to be paying $5 to BendOver.

    Then it all becomes a matter of how much are the visitors you have to pay for making you.

    And I always have an out banner that's a per click. Every click from there lowers my cost per incoming visitor.

  13. #13
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    Leader you really should do a ebook on PPCs
    You can set up an account with Clickbank
    for just $49 and sell it online,you got a built in affiliate program with them and since they deal in nothing but info products it would work fine.I would probably buy one myself since i need a lot of help with them
    I sell a lot of books thru them on gambling and sportsgambling plus my own info and do well.The product you would offer would have a much bigger market than mine.

  14. #14
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    Hi
    I am finding this thread interesting but it all seems to be talk about the USA market. Does anyone know of anything like this for the UK market place?

    I know that people can use some of these search engines but dont know if it would be worth it for me unless we can get people who are flying into Glasgow to book taxis from us for onward travel. Each booking from the Airport to Glasgow City Centre is worth approx. 12 UK pounds (about 18 dollars) so we could easily put on a one pound booking chage (apporx 1.50) which would pay for a few hits.

    A such is the life, then again I could always start a UK PPC company, now that would be interesting.

    regards John

  15. #15
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    John,

    Try payperclicksearchengines.com it also referes to some UK PPC's.


    Regards

  16. #16
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    The keyword CNN gets 900,000 searches per month on BendOver - the slimeballs wouldn't let me list my NY Times sales page on it.
    The minimum 5 cents would be listing #1.

    At a CTR of 1% it's 9,000 visitors down the drain. Close 1% or 90 sales at the $25 commission and I would have equaled $2,250 less the $450 for the traffic. A sweet $1,800 expected profit.

    Only would have needed 18 sales to break even. 2 sales per 1000. And 9,000 visitors would easily have clicked 900 times on my out link and brought in $180 extra to cushion the risk and lower the breakeven point to 11 sales. And if the sales rate did 2% it would be $4050 profit and phat city. Major bummer.

    But it pissed me off enough to figure out how to clean bendOvers clock.

    Stay tuned for further developments.

  17. #17
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    Fred, your calculator doesn't have the right figures again. You really ought to buy some new batteries (off of my site, of course!).

    See, the number one spot DOES NOT get a 1% clickthrough rate...

    It's more like 50-90% clickthrough rate...

    AND,

    Most people who type CNN are just going to be looking for the CNN site, or content about/from CNN.

    So, you'd get BOMBED in clicks, most (try 95% or more) of which would just go away when they saw you aren't CNN!!!

    It'sOverSure probably accidentally did you a favor on that one...your shirt would have disappeared so far it would have taken the Hubble Telescope to find it!!!

    I speak from experience--paying for clicks on terms like that is death. Fortunately, the "school" I learned from didn't have 900,000 searches on it!

    As for a way to clean their clock, if you're thinking what I think you are, you just may clean it.

  18. #18
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Frederick said-

    'And I always have an out banner that's a per click. Every click from there lowers my cost per incoming visitor.'

    Excellent advice, I've made all kinds of money from that piece of advice. Whether this out banner is a search engine (3/4 cents when they search with it) or an eBay advertisement (Can't find it here? Try eBay!') ($5 if they register and bid), make sure you get paid for them LEAVING your site.

  19. #19
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    3/4 cents?!?!

    Who pays that?! Certainly there must be a better SE to peddle than that (other than pay-whenever-ture)...

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