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  1. #1
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    I'm not a big affiliate fan. My partner is, but the threads here interest me and has me more and more interested in this, rather than doing just click ads and charging flat monthly fees.

    But, I don't get some of you.

    Some of you post your beefs about certain stores, but do you still stay with them???

    Doing reversals months later and not explaining it, taking two months before paying, taking two months to determine that a credit card is invalid, not answering e-mail...

    I don't know, but I think if you aren't going to drop them and post their names along with what they are doing, you shouldn't be posting your beefs.

    Yes, some other stores may frown upon you posting the names, and you may feel like a whistleblower, but I would think the legitimate ones won't care. If they do, drop them also.

    I'm sorry, but come on!

    If my partner and I get any of that crap, you can expect us to post their names and what they are doing.

    Ecomcity is the only guy I know of, at this moment, who isn't afraid to stand up and voice his opinion. I admire a guy like that.

    If you aren't going to do this, don't post.

    Some do, but nearly all don't.

    ClickMagazine.NET

  2. #2
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    Depends on what type of site you have. With some sites you need to carry certain merchants to stay competitive. Kinda like if 2 grocery stores opened up right next to each other and both of the owners hated Pepsi and hated the service the Pepsi vendors were providing. If one stop carrying Pepsi and had this attitude with other products they would go out of business because the customers want to buy Pepsi. If you have a shopping site, your site visitors expect to see certain merchants and if you don't have them, they will go to a site that does. Depends on your site.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, I think most of us agree with you in theory. But, you see, many of us are almost totally dependent on this income. At the end of the month, a check smaller than what you deserved is often better than none at all. Also, it takes a great deal of time and effort to develop our pages. When we take them down, we receive no further compensation at all for the time and effort we have already invested. If we ignore them and leave them be, well something may come in even if we are being cheated and robbed.

    Walk a mile in our shoes before you are so very certain what you would do. Then, you might just get it.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  4. #4
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    Beware of parrots in disguise

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    All your SERP's are now belong to us. Shall we sell for you? Or shall we sell for your competitor?

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  6. #6
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    Crying wolf doesn't cut it in many instances.
    Whistle blowing and outing merchants or claiming foul, cheating, stealing, fraud in a public forum does no one any good without some back up.
    Many people come in claim so and so so has ripped them off, fraud has occured without so much as even e mailing the merchant or network contact first.
    Would you like to be publicly humiliated or your brand dragged through the mud only because an affiliate thinks he has the right to do so and able to hide behind a screen to do it...I don't think so.
    I am one who has had a problem about a payment which was one of the issues you discussed.
    How I handled and think things should be looked at in proper sequential steps.
    I e mailed the mechant and asked what was wrong with my cheque, why it hadn't been sent, and what was procedure for payments. It was all handled in private with no need to out them in a forum. We had never seen enough for a cheque from them prior so there wern't any underlying issues and it was resolved.
    The second time we sent an e mail to them and also posted a heads up in here and asked why did this occur again. I was never unprofessional in any of my posts about it, more so just frustration it had happened. At this time there was a new manager on board, not aware of any past issues and was working beyond just what was posted in here to see what had happened and how to resolve this and future issues if they were to occur.
    I have not dropped them as I see it as an inconvenience and a glitch more than an attempt to rip someone off. The next time this merchant and manager will just be dropped in all likelyhood and an e mail telling why.
    HOWEVER, I have posted on ABW, problems about any merchant if we weren't able to resolve issues or they didn't appear to be running a program as ethical as it should be. I have dropped some merchants because of bait and switch and programs that syphon off my traffic to their own coded links on their site. Basically acting as my partner when in fact competing against me. No reason for me to come in here cussing and screaming about how they run their program though. I just kick them to the curb.
    I don't think any posts have come out from me that have dragged anyones name through the mud and accused them of anything that can't be proven. Warned others here about some suspicious behaviour yes, I have. This is a totally different scenario than coming in here and making posts like many do that they have been wronged without following some sort of trail before posting in a public place how a merchant conducts their business.
    Just my own opinion, that while the sqeaky wheel gets the most attention, sometimes it needs to be squeaked at appropriate times only.

    ...............
    WW

    Make a difference! Support your local Cancer Care providers.

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well I run a test bed Cybermall since 1997. Been burned by every .com bomb to come down the pike and all the network management know it. I often in private messages to the networks blow the whistle on turned off shopping carts, broken reporting interfaces and merchants about to hit the dealpool. Problem in silencing me is those willing to check can't challenge the validity of the complaints.

    Thank God for ABW and it's open structure. Only the rants and flames, where all parties participate or lurk, actuall lead to some positive changes. At least it clues merchant AM's to what practices are acceptable and if their program has a good conversion ratio they lead with thta as a recruitment tool.

    I taken and showcased merchants over the years just to generate some viable stats to call the wanks ...wanks. At least we now have more transparancy and better payment procedures in place to offset the smoke screens of the networks trying to address just the needs of their Top merchants and Dupers.

    Until some management within the merchants organization drops in and learns how their outsourced AM's are raping them things won't change. If 500 non-converting AM's got fired next week it wouldn't effect normal affiliate sales one iota. The losses for the the incent/coupon affiliates seeing those deals dry up are just higher profit sales picked up by the normal domain bound pre-sell affiliates.

    It just gripes me the merchants get away with murdering normal network affiliates by claiming the damn traffic isn't converting. That is often a damn blatant lie, as untargeted SE and CPM traffic gets 3-5 times better conversion ratios then show in the network reports. If not those merchants would have disappeared with Pet.com and eToys. Makes no sense if I send 2500 clicks to Dell and The Outpost without one sale from the same pages that consistantly produce 1 sale per 100 clicks for their competitors. That's fraud and they sure as hell don't challenge me on it and hide behind the skirts of their network's protecting their brands.

    I just get tired of getting dissed when the networks know 70% of all the affiliate traffic sales comes from tricks for clicks players, spamming Dupers and the cookie hijackers. If a merchant can't sell from EcomCity traffic they can't sell without some crutch from any other affiliate site. Honest AM's do panic when they see I'm not converting on a reasonable amount of traffic over the years. The rest ignor me.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    quote:
    Perry wrote: But, I don't get some of you.

    Hang around affiliate marketing long enough, and eventually you will. It's only a matter of time before you get burned by a merchant. Then you will get it.

    Andy

    _______________
    Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    What Trust said...

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


  10. #10
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    What SSanf said....

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    But definately not what Mike said...

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com

  12. #12
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    But definately not what Mike said...

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


    That goes without saying!

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Mike reminds me of soybean meal...Just a lot of filler!
    Sorry Mike, couldn't resist!

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


  14. #14
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    Thanks for the replies back, but it's pretty sad, thinking like that. Many of you are willing to be cheated and robbed, as long as you still see some money.

    Now don't get me wrong, I know there are just a few merchants who are like this, and that there are clearly many excellent ones.

    SurplusComputers seems to be very good, and Andy seems like a stand-up guy.

    SSanf,

    I've come to realize that some of you do this for a living and that you depend on the income, even though some of them, JUST A FEW OFTHEM, are ripping you off.

    You stated that a small check is better than nothing at all. Ummmmm, last time I checked, there are thousands of products out there for affiliates. If one merchant is taking advantage of you, or bending you over, simply replace them.

    You also stated that it takes time to build your pages and that you receive no further compensation for the time and effort you have already invested.

    So, because of that, you are still willing to be cheated and robbed, instead of simply finding another merchant?!

    Ok, my apologies, but I REALLY don't get that one.

    If my partner and I have problems with a particular merchant, all we have to do is delete them from the page, while leaving the rest of the merchants up. It will take about 5 seconds to do so. If this merchant had a page all its own, we would format certain parts of it to match the new merchant that replaces the old one. We will use the same page.

    This is so hard to do???


    TrustNo1,

    I liked your Pepsi analogy. :-)

    If I wasn't getting good service or that they were cheating me, I'd still drop them. There are still plenty of soft drinks out there. I won't make as much money, but there are still plenty of Coke, Sprite and Dr. Pepper drinkers out there.

    What, you can't combine them all and advertsie the heck out of them? And if you are talking about serach engine ranking, one product can do just as well as the next. Isn't it just a matter of adding more keywords and link exchanges in order to help bring the ranking up???


    walleye warrior,

    I agree with you. One shouldn't cry wolf without proof. That is not what I meant. I'm sure, though, that there are plenty of posters who beef about being ripped off, and they have the proof, but STILL they won't post the merhcant who did this.

    I would first do everything possible to see if the problem can be corrected. But, if, for example, I get a reversal and it was past the deadline, and they won't fix it, you can sure bet I'll post that merchants name.


    Andy,

    No, if Sarah and I were being ripped off, that merchant is history. It wouldn't matter if we were makng money from them. They can be replaced. If we make less money with the new merchant, we can put up a few more to even it out.

    The bottom line to this whole thing is that you have to have your pride and principals.


    Ecom,

    Ditto!


    Thanks to all who replied. I know I stepped on some toes, and I don't mean to, but, geez, folks, think about it!

    If you don't name names, and you have the proof, don't post JUST a beef.

    Perry

    ClickMagazine.NET

    [This message was edited by Perry on October 11, 2003 at 01:13 AM.]

  15. #15
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    How should you get us if you have no experience? Have you ever tried to solve a problem with cj.com or befree or linkshare? If you would you would have found out that: "There is everything ok and tracking is not affected". How could one of us ever proof the contrary? We do not have access to the tools the networks have, and believe me if I really would have proves that a mechant is really cheating, I and nearly all of us would have posted it here. Ecom is a tough guy and for that I admire him.


    carneol

  16. #16
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    Perry,

    I had an incident with a merchant about a month ago and never named them because I wanted to get as much info as possible before blaming them. Hence, it turned out that the error came from CJ's end and I never ended up having to 'out' the merchant and get people worried that the merchant was ripping them off. (It is a merchant who has a very noticeable presence here at ABW).

    When the AM saw my post, he immediately looked into the problem and took care of it. I am still not satisfied however, with the problem from the CJ side.

    What occurred is that I bought something through my own links (this merchant allows that) and the sale never showed up. The kicker is that CJ rejected my transaction saying it was a duplicate order, which is hogwash. I never clicked on the send button twice. I got confirmation from the merchant and everything. They say it had something to do with a prior order I made and the computer thinking it was a duplicate. The thing that really worries me about it, is that I wonder if this is happening a lot without us knowing it. What is the point of an unlimited occurence if CJ rejects subsequent orders from the same person (my case)?

    My point being, CJ screwed up and if we always blame the merchant that can be trouble for us. If I knew the merchant was blatantly cheating me, I would remove the links. As soon as they saw that, they might come running back. (Has happened to my husband and he ended up with a higher commish because of it, since they didn't want to lose his business).

    Robin..(How 'bout them Cubs)

  17. #17
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    quote:
    If you aren't going to do this, don't post.


    you

  18. #18
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    Carnel & REM,

    Yeah, I agree with you. Like I stated before, I always make sure first.


    Jimbo,

    Sorry, hon, I don't swing that way. Better luck with the next guy.

    ClickMagazine.NET

  19. #19
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    Perry,

    I've mentioned ripoff merchants by name here in the past, only to have them catch wind of the thread, come here, and watching avid posters here at ABW defend them.

    If you are certain a merchant is ripping you off and feel bold enough to post their name here, be aware that others here can turn it into a positive promotion for them.

    The problem with crook merchants is they may not rip all their affiliates off, to the same degree, or many affiliates may not believe they are getting ripped off, thinking that any sales whatsoever from a merchant means they're O.K.

    You could post that eBay are crooks, but there will be those here that would contradict that, since they make an amount of money they deem better than nothing.

  20. #20
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    Kelly,

    Yes, I've read your posts. Between you and Ecom, it's like a breath of fresh air.

    And yes, eBay!! It's sort of like the Twilight Zone the way you hear about people making a lof of money from them. Oh, there are people who do. I won't, for one second dispute that, but you would think that tens of thousands are.

    I, for one know what eBay is really like.

    Where's Rod Serling??? :-)

    ClickMagazine.NET

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