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  1. #1
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    Was doing some reading around the internet. Something that makes sense about the new algo. If you typed in 'go to hell' sites like yahoo, cnn, aol were in the top ten due to Google bombing. People were using anchor text links to make this happen, mainly bloggers. The folks at Google figured this out and made changes. It seems anchor text links from sites listed in DMOZ do very well. I did nothing much this update except switch up my title a little bit and have done real good with that, plus i have a lot of incoming links from DMOZ sites. I can't get listed myself there, but that's ok. I think the best way to go is concentrate on getting DMOZ listed sites to link to you. DMOZ anchor text links for the keywords you are targeting. Anybody have any other ideas about new algo? Suns coming up time to go bed.

    May all your ups and downs be in bed

  2. #2
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    Yeah, I've got a few ideas - but I'm not posting anything until I've had a chance to test them.

    Here's some food for thought though:

    i) PageRank - pretty easy to manipulate, right ? Google don't want this manipulation and downgrade the weight given to links from less authoritative sources (this ties in with your Dmoz idea)

    ii) Anchor text - this has been the, uh, anchor of their algo since the start. I've said for a long time it is a flawed model as it isn't natural linking to have keywords in the link.

    Google know that this too is easy to manipulate and so place less importance on it. Instead, they place more importance on the theme of the page linking into your site. This gives little or no value to links from sites that aren't about the same theme as yours.

    iii) Reciprocal linking/Links pages - Reciprocal links are now not seen as a valuable 'vote' for your page. Links pages that are not targeted to the site's theme are also devalued in the algo. This is based partly on something Buckworks said and partly on my own observation of sites that have moved up and down in this index.

    iv) On Site Factors - the meta description tag is showing up in the snippets where possible. The stronger the match with the title tag and the search phrase used, the more likely it is that these are appearing. So, the meta description tag is now an important part of the algo. Sites where there is a very precise match between the title and meta description are doing very well.

    v) SERPs domination - the last few months have seen a lot of the top twenty dominated by one or two companies, either through multiple domains or through top notch affiliates pointing their sites at certain merchants. Google see this as bad for their visitors and add some factor to ensure that there is a good mix of sites in the top two SERPs.

    Anyway, those are my current thoughts but I will test over the month and see how accurate this is.

    However, Google have made a bit of a mess of all this - I think they've tried to do too much all at once. Personally, I didn't get too caught up in it all, though there were a couple of surprising drops but I am not impressed by the relevance of some results and there are all sorts of oddities going on (duplicate pages, huge numbers of directory listings, irrelevant pages, etc.)

    I did have some advance warning of all this, but frankly, didn't expect such a sweeping change. Bit more dramatic than I thought it was going to be, to be honest.

    Search Engine Positioning - 1 Design 4 Life

  3. #3
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    >> However, Google have made a bit of a mess of all this - I think they've tried to do too much all at once. Personally, I didn't get too caught up in it all, though there were a couple of surprising drops but I am not impressed by the relevance of some results and there are all sorts of oddities going on (duplicate pages, huge numbers of directory listings, irrelevant pages, etc.) <<

    I agree; it can't stay this way long so I'm not too concerned. I'm seeing Guestbook posts come up in the 4,5 and 6 positions for competitive keywords.

    My large shopping site has seen an enourmous jump in traffic since Wed night. It hasn't lost any pages - in fact Google picked up quite a few- yet I can't find any of the pages that had previously ranked in the top 15 anywhere near that high...even though all the pages are still (somewhere) in WWW3 and WWW2. I'm seeing more clicks in my CJ stats, but not a corresponding increase in sales (OK it's still early for that). It makes me wonder if most of the traffic is coming from less relevant results this time.

    It really is a mess. IF they'd just cull out the irrelevant stuff, it wouldn't be bad at all.

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  4. #4
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    I am not certain that this update if final. I have been heavily spidered the past 2 days.
    Cazzie [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    I was spidered heavily on the 19th, which is highly unusual for that website. In the past Googlebot has always been finished with that site by the 5th - 7th of the month.

    I'm still not seeing consistent results between WWW1 - WWW3

    {

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  6. #6
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    Was there something similar 6 months ago.. when there were 2 updates in April. A lot of listings were lost on the update at the start of the month, then returned when it updated again at the end of April. Or am I completely wrong here.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> v) SERPs domination - the last few months have seen a lot of the top twenty dominated by one or two companies, either through multiple domains or through top notch affiliates pointing their sites at certain merchants. Google see this as bad for their visitors and add some factor to ensure that there is a good mix of sites in the top two SERPs.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I found this quite interesting. An example of getting around this would be to de-emphasize the use of the Merchant name i.e. Tiger Direct, Overstock, etc.? Instead focusing on product titles, and carefully selected brands?

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  8. #8
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I'm still missing the minty fresh pages I had in the old index though. I guess they may get respidered in [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    Меня зовут Динаму

  9. #9
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    Chinaski - yeah, there were two updates in April, but wasn't that because the end of March update came very late. Can't remember now.

    I'm not seeing some of the newer fresh pages either - I think that is because the update hasn't settled down. I would expect to see them later this week.

    Buy_Online - I'm not sure myself about this one. It could just be a result of the other changes made rather than something Google has set out to do. Dunno yet.

    Search Engine Positioning - 1 Design 4 Life

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    yesterday I was seeing old, old pages cached in the new index - this morning I am seeing a lot of Sept 27 fresh tags - some of my pages are back, some have climbed - maybe its getting back on track.

    Abigail

  11. #11
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    I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this. Quite some time ago, I did a commercial site targeting another engine and pretty much forgot about it, although it has produced to some extent. Its home page has a whole kitchen sink full of keyword combos in the category aimed at covering a multitude of products. Lets just say it goes on and on. I'm not terribly proud of it.

    I also have numerous product specific pages for the same products on another domain, which, until this update, have uniformly ranked high and been prolific producers. I've been proud of those pages. Of course, "Pride goeth before the fall".

    In this update, for each of the multitude of individual products, keyword searches now bring up my kitchen sink site in the top ten results and my formerly high ranked pages are nowhere to be found.

    In each case, the description focuses on a snippet contained in the kitchen sink site.

    The site is not in DMOZ or Yahoo. I haven't even touched the site in months. Go figure. Maybe this tells us something?

    "If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself." Bob Hope

  12. #12
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    I am pretty sure the update has not finished and the reason I am saying that so confidently is the PR meter.
    It is jumping all over the place for a few sites I am tracking.
    Also, my new site which has just been listed is jumping between a PR0 and a PR4.

    my .02 anyway.

    Something strange is afoot at Circle K

  13. #13
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    More strangeness. I just saw that a brand new site of mine now has a PR5 for which I'm grateful. However, NO backward links are shown, and it isn't in DMOZ or Yahoo.

    "If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself." Bob Hope

  14. #14
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    I always check the keyword 'coupon codes' and saw 1 site that has always been in top 5 for over a year drop into the 80's, thats scary. Major, major changes somewhere. Luckily i didn't move at all and picked up some main keywords. I wish i knew what i was doing, so i could keep doing it. Hopefully they will put in my new site i saw a week ago with a nice fresh date, before this update is over.

    Check this out. Did a backwords link check for top ten sites for a keyword i check often:

    1. 40
    2. 50
    3. 106
    4. 122
    5. 300
    6. 330
    7. 550
    8. 46
    9. 214
    10.606

    Hmm


    If all the girls lived up in trees, what a good climber johnnie would be.

    [This message was edited by johnniebry on September 28, 2002 at 07:20 PM.]

  15. #15
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    Also what buckworks said makes sense about backwards links(see above). You could spend a whole month getting nothing but link exchanges. Thats too easy to manipulate, it justs takes time. I think when somebody links to your site and theres not necessarily a link back to the person who linked to you is more important. Just make a good site, then people will link to you just because you have a good site, not the "i'll link to you if you link to me kinda deal"

    If all the girls lived up in trees, what a good climber johnnie would be.

  16. #16
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    I have to agree with just about everything markymark says.. Now for some additives from my own observations..

    Dmoz listed sites and the theming idea seem to be sitting together. For example, if you have a site about widgets listed in dmoz, and this site has a page relating to gidgets on it. If on the gidgets page you link to another site about gidgets, then the external site about gidgets can also do well in the results even though it is not listed in Dmoz. Essentially the dmoz effect can work on a two-tier level.

    There appears to be a penalty for sites that over optimize for search terms. For example, a site targeting widgets, with all sub pages being blue widgets, red widgets, etc, now draws a penalty. If your site is not over optimized for any given term, you seem to stand a chance of a good result.

    A random element has come into play, or it may just be something I am unable to quantify. I have a #1 result for a page targeting red widgets, but my blue widgets page on the same site has vanished. This holds true across a few of my sites, and I have tipped these pages upside down for a clue as to why but I can not find any logical reason for it. It's like google has decided to drop all the pages from one site into a mixing bowl, stirs it up, and pulls out a few pages and says you can be number 1, and the rest are thrown out with the trash.

    I believe this may be the start of a new era with Google. Unfortunately at present, their results for quite a few search terms are pathetic, so unless they get their act together quickly we may also see the emergence of serious competition from the likes of alltheweb. There may be interesting times ahead.

  17. #17
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    The minty fresh pages are back in the index!

    It looks like the PR is still being updated though.

    But, hey, still this is progress I guess.

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  18. #18
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    I'm a bit late to this discussion, but...

    How is it possible that relevant, continually updated pages of mine that have been ranking in the top couple of positions on targeted keywords within my sites for 2 years now can't be found anywhere in the top 100? Is Google saying that they were ranking pages poorly for the past 2 years, or is there some mistake with the new rankings, or an entirely new system being used altogether? 2 years of hard work making honest, relevant pages just went down the tubes for 10 different websites...

    Any suggestions anyone?

  19. #19
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    My site had another deep crawl yesterday. Don't think this is over yet.
    Cazzie

  20. #20
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    I hope the new rankings aren't done yet! Based on the relevancy (or extreme lack) of many sites that have taken over some of my top keyword positions, I'd hate to think that Google has taken such a large step backwards. There's some realy crap coming out near the top, and good, relevant sites such as mine and others that used to be listed near mine are nowhere to be found...

    I feel like I'm doing a search on one of the many other crappy search engines out there now. There's an old motto "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and Google has become the #1 search engine over the past 2 years for a reason! These changes are not encouraging at all, unless its still in the updating mode.

  21. #21
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Google must have thought something was broke (maybe the "go to hell" stuff) but seems to have gone too far in resolving it. I hope things get better on the next update [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador CrazyGuy's Avatar
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    I've just (literally) had thousands and thousands of new pages (mainly generated from merchant datafeeds) be listed on Google, so this is still changing.

    I certainly hope so, as previously reliable pages have certainly slipped for me too.

    Related question:

    Are comments here (and elsewhere) on page rank, link relevance, etc applicable to the whole site or page by page? What I mean is: does a good link to a page boost G's view of that page - or the whole site it's on?

    Stewart Hutton | Are you Crazy?

  23. #23
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    I don't know if its from all the google changes(I did retain a lot of good placement) but traffic has been down for me Frid, Sat and Sun by almost 30 to 40%
    If its not google I don't know what is causing this drop in traffic.
    Cazzie

  24. #24
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    My minty fresh site is back in, was getting worried. Overall this is a good update for me. Moved up on some major keywords, some interior pages might get a little less, but others will get more, so i'm very happy with this update. I'm not getting too excited because next update who knows. I think Google has a wheel(like Wheel of Fortune) with different algos on it and spins it each update and then visit various boards amused at some of the chaos they produced. Laughing at all of us trying to figure out the new algo.

    If all the girls lived up in trees, what a good climber johnnie would be.

  25. #25
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    Does anyone have any good information to pass along regarding the recent Google updates since the weekend? One thing that jumps out at me is the number of UK and other non-US sites that have been ranked up high for many searches, in addition to quite a number of pretty non-relevant sites. Isn't that why there is a Google.uk, etc?

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