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  1. #1
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    http://sweepstakes.yahoo.com/search_...t?source=yahoo

    Survey about possible future pricing structure? Pay for inclusion and then pay per click. Kinda Looksmartish.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  2. #2
    Member scottyant's Avatar
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    Thanks for the great post!
    I guess they mean business.
    How long do you think before they implement one of the programs within the survey?

  3. #3
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    Not sure, they're still doing the survey to get a feel for things. Paying for inclusion is one thing but asking to pay for clicks on top of that, not a good idea. Most are not liking this idea and if implemented can very well backfire on Yahoo. Yahoo is looking to make some quick money it seems, but the Looksmart kinda route is not the way to go.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  4. #4
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    Yowzer! That's one scary survey. If those are the options they are considering, that's not good at all.

    For those that don't want to do the survey here are some general points from it that seem to indicate the way they are leaning:

    1) The Looksmart model (i.e, your site must meet editorial guidelines to be included.) It didn't indicate whether, like Looksmart, editors would craft a description for you or screw the one you submit up but it seems likely.

    2) They are playing around with the idea of having an annual fee of between $29 and $99 for 1 url up to a $1499 lifetime fee for 100 urls.

    3) They also seem to be real focused on a per click fee. The fees seemed to range between 10 cents and 75 cents for 1 url but a lot of the options were around the 25/35 cent range. Some of the 50 and 100 url options had no click charges.

    4) They also are playing around with the idea of a fee for customer service - they showed several different options of paying for customer service. For example, paying from $0 to $25/month for customer service or paying $5 - $15 for a customer service inquiry.

    5) They also had different price points for changing a listing.

    My comments on all this:

    The looksmart model stinks because it relies too much on human input. If an editor gives you a bad or just so-so description and then won't change it your money has been wasted. You are effectively out of the game for that site with that search engine.

    Also, I haven't tried to get an affiliate site into Yahoo but can you get one in? Is it easy or does it depend on the editor?

    Assuming you do get a good listing, then you have to pay a per click fee. If they tack on a monthly fee for customer service that's another fee you have to pay.

    If they do add a monthly fee, what happens if you get a bad description and are buried? You've just wasted your subscription fee or you will need to pay $X for the privilege of remaining buried in the listings in the hopes you will one day rise.

    If they charge a per inquiry fee for customer service, then if you notice an error on their part you have to pay them to bring it to their attention.

    Let's say they go with a one time fee for 100 urls and then charge a low per click fee. If you get lousy descriptions your money is wasted and if you have either no click fee or a lower click fee than others they have an incentive to show other sites ahead of yours, all other things being equal.

    This is their chance to really take the lead, but if this is an indication of what they are leaning towards, I'm not impressed. I agree with Trust that the survey really makes it seem like Yahoo is just out to take people's money without giving real value in return.

    Kip

    [This message was edited by Kip on August 31, 2003 at 05:52 AM.]

  5. #5
    Full Member c4's Avatar
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    Wow, what prices!

    I really hope they won't screw with the current Inktomi inclusion price and start charging PPC.

    This sucks ...



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  6. #6
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    Yahoo wants money and doesn't care about anything else.
    I paid for express inclusion once and then they declined the inclusion without giving any reason. After sending them three emails and receiving the same canned reply, I gave up.
    Mind you, their generic reasons for non-inclusion did not apply to my site.
    In retrospect, I should have given them a chargeback because they deserved it....
    I was once screwed by them and I have no intention of doing business with them again.
    A week ago I pulled my overture account.
    No more money for yahoo....
    I DON'T LIKE YAHOO.

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I really hope they won't screw with the current Inktomi inclusion price and start charging PPC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It looks like that is definitely on the table as quite a few of their options showed Yahoo and Inktomi together.

    If that happens wonder what will happen to the current Inktomi users? Yahoo will be under pressure to show that a listing with them gets results and to start bringing in the money from the per click fee (if they decide to go that way)which is a fee current Inktomi users won't be paying.

    This doesn't look good at all. I will have to wait and see what they do come up with but I'm not encouraged at all by what they are proposing in the survey.

    Kip

  8. #8
    Full Member c4's Avatar
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    Yea, I went through the survey, terrifying! And some plans suggest a higher inclusion plan ($69 and more) plus a PPC of $0,50 to $0,75!!

    And since Yahoo with Inktomi will be a big market it is hard to just go by and say "I don't need them".

    Either way, they can't (mustn't!) screw current Inktomi listings can they? Or will they just push them to XYZ positions and let the new PPC listings take the top positions (what would make sense if they just want our money...)?

    One thing is sure: if the plans stay as suggested they won't see my money. In some niches I can get guaranteed 1st place listings by bidding lower then $0.50 on AdWords. Plus, as far as my main business is conserned, Yahoo's traffic won't bring not even ROI.



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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    As a search engine user I want to find the best results, not the results of he who paid the most money. With offline advertising whoever pays the most gets the most exposure.

    Advertisers have always been trying the same techniques online that they use offline. Spam and in your face advertising that doesn't work, etc.

    The search engines have always been the number 1 source of traffic online and they should be able to make money. I am for a yearly fee that is low enough everyone can afford it. How much money would they make if they charged $1.00 for every page listed or $25.00 for all pages under 1 URL? PPC is not a good way to go, there are too many people clicking that have no interest in your product or service. They are just checking out the competition.

    Years ago there was talk of charging people to use the search engines. I could go for a ISP fee, an extra few bucks a month that would go to support the top 5 engines. An extra buck or 2 when I buy a domain name that goes to the engines. One reason google is the best and used the most is because it is free, everyone is listed. Still they need to make money. I know I make a ton of money off of them!

  10. #10
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    I ran some back of envelope calcs on the figures they were throwing at me when I took it, and the BEST realistic case I could ID (200 URLs for $2500, plus $.10 / click, for Y! and Ink inclusion) put the breakeven point at a measly 600k impression, assuming I changed no URLs, and never used support.

    If you are in any kind of high traffic sector, you are going to be out of pocket in a matter of months, weeks for some guys!

    &gt;&gt; I am for a yearly fee that is low enough everyone can afford it

    Hmm, you are using a definition of "everyone" that excludes a LOT of people

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>40.7% of the world population earns less than $500.0 per year,
    and their total share of the world's income is less than 2.4%.
    The other 59.3% receives 97.6% of the world's income.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  11. #11
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    There should be no charge per click if you pay for inclusion. The PPC part should be a separate entity.
    A simple enough concept, but the money-hungry Y! only cares about stuffing its wallet.

  12. #12
    Member scottyant's Avatar
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    Quote from jane:
    As a search engine user I want to find the best results, not the results of he who paid the most money. With offline advertising whoever pays the most gets the most exposure.
    -----------------------------------------------
    That comment provokes some thoughts and questions.

    Will history repeat itself again with online advertising?

    This is beginning to look a lot like phone book advertising, except there isn't an alphabet involved.

    As business owners we understand what is going on.

    But the way convenience gets packaged will the "search engine user" know that the best funded advertising budget is in the way of them buying the best products?

    Will they care?

    Lots of money if you ask me is on-the-line!

    Scott Yant
    Mall Director
    Boise Online Mall.com

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Yahoo and Inktomi are on a one way road to search engine h3ll if they try to pull this stunt.

    Google is HOT HOT HOT and it is mostly because their results are about the best you can find. When a top SE listing is based on who has the biggest checking account, relevancy and serious customers will go away.

    I can't believe some of the prices people pay for listings at Overture, and I'm sure a lot of people get their kicks out of clicking the links just to spend someone else's money, with no intention of buying anything from the site.

    A SE must return good results to be a contender. This future business model of Yahoo's is a joke. They will not succeed, they will lose their customers.

    Fools.

    Andy

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  14. #14
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    Yahoo Sucks. I can survive without them. As far as I am concerned they can keep their arrogance and their directory. Not another penny of mine will they see.

  15. #15
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    Well I took the survey and gave them my comments at the end. Any company doing PPC has to have a pretty high trust factor with me these days the way they pretty much all have farmed out their results to crappy sources like whenu, gator, hotbar, etc. Makes for a really terrible ROI. And I certainly won't taking any chances on that one at .75/click.

    I also had a few words to say about the whole idea of paying for customer service. Any company that is going to charge you to provide support for their own product/service, especially with some pricing listed at $25/occurrance, is enough to make me run for the hills.

    Yahoo has done many foolish things in the past they've had to backtrack on trying to get the fast buck, so they definitely aren't up there on my trust scale. Remember the whole porn thing with them?? LOL.

    I did enjoy giving them my feedback and comments however.

    It's Your Money. You earned it. What are you going to do to make sure you get to keep it?

  16. #16
    Full Member c4's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLFH (Ms. B):
    I did enjoy giving them my feedback and comments however.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I hear ya Ms. B, did a lot of typing myself too Not that my English is as good as yours is, but they will have a few things to consider



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