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  1. #1
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    Ever since yahoo dropped there google results I"v seen the impact. I'm getting more traffic from inktomi (msn and yahoo) and traffic from some small engines like dogpile.com and mamma.com. I know I haven't been banned or anything from google because I'm still getting a small amount of highly targeted traffic. I'm starting to wonder if google's plan to go public soon will cause even more problems with there results and will effect us. Anyway is anyone else seeing horrible or very small amount of traffic from google this month and for April too. Right now yahoo and the other small engines are kicking googles It seems odd because google's bot is visiting my pages over a dozen times a day. but I'm not seeing any results from google.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I've been relying on Google quite a bit to this point. My Google traffic was excellent until about the middle of March when it was cut in half by algorithm changes. Since then it's slowly moving up and I'm about 75% to where I was before from Google.

    Fortunately Yahoo started slurping my sites at the end of last week. I'm more than happy with the results so far. I've only got a mere 150 pages indexed in Yahoo for one of my sites. Those 150 pages are generating one quarter the traffic Google generates for me and Google has over 11 thousand pages indexed. If this is just a taste of what's to come when Yahoo finally starts doing some deep crawls, I'm going to be one happy camper.

    MSNbot has been hitting my sites regularly and has taken a great deal of my pages, so I'm looking forward to July when the new engine is unvieled.

    I'm just not very happy with Google lately. My progress with them feels stale.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  3. #3
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    Scott, I feel the same way, not happy with google either. seems odd, because I was doing great in March. then it was cut off 50%. IF yahoo and msn keeps on doing what there doing I'm going to be a happy camper. Commissions are still increasing. So I'm confused on what google is doing now. Since most of my sales used to be from google.

    Jason

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I'm not confused about what Google's doing. It's pretty obvious they're pushing back profitable sites to motivate Adwords sales. I've reluctantly started using Adwords because it's the only way I can get a decent response from Google traffic.

    They're bringing less profitable sites up in the SERPs while reducing their AdSense payout while pushing back profitable sites to get us to pay for advertising space on these less profitable sites. It's kinda sneaky, but going IPO has that effect on companies.

    These are just my theories. If somebody has anything further to add, I'd love to hear it.

    Thanks!
    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  5. #5
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    Well Yahoo is ahead on every site except my mall site which for some godforsaken reason got banned by Yahoo. However, it still is getting some Yahoo Shopping searches

  6. #6
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    Scott, okay thanks for the information guess just have to wait and see what happens.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I've got this idea about Yahoo that I'd like to test with you guys. I've heard that many of you are having good luck converting with Yahoo. I remember reading that Yahoo converts a little better than Google. I don't have any data to suggest one way or the other so that's why I'm proposing this theory.

    Maybe Yahoo converts better because of Yahoo DSL? I'm guessing maybe more Yahoo users have the money to afford DSL while more Google users are on dial-up. If this is true, that would mean Yahoo users have more money and are more likely to make purchases.

    Does anybody have any ideas on this? Anything to refute or support my idea?

    Thanks!!
    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I guess I'd first have to determine for myself if yahoo actually does convert better. I guess dsl might make a difference but not all yahoo users have it and not all google users don't have it. I don't think there would ever be a way to know for sure. Check your site stats and see what your converting users are using.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I'll find out soon enough. I just started getting traffic from Yahoo yesterday, so we'll see how this month goes. So far so good!

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  10. #10
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    My question on the above discussion is whether this traffic you are all starting to get from Yahoo is a result of using their site submission (where you have to pay per click a preset amount -- not referring to Overture PPC) or if this is just from the Yahoo bot finding your sites on its own??

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I'm not interested in Yahoo's PPI/PPC program. These are natural Yahoo! Slurp bot inclusions that come for free.
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  12. #12
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm not interested in Yahoo's PPI/PPC program. These are natural Yahoo! Slurp bot inclusions that come for free. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not for long Snib. As the merchants come in and buy the PI+CPC deals affiliates will get pushed back again.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawaii5:
    Not for long Snib. As the merchants come in and buy the PI+CPC deals affiliates will get pushed back again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm not too worried about competing against the merchant I'm promoting. They have every right to be in the top 10 for their own products. I'm happy if I can just be beside them.
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  14. #14
    Sgt. Joe Friday frank3iii's Avatar
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    Yahoo search is beating Google by about 4 to 1.

    Yahoo searchers are looking for household goods, clothing, shoes, and personal items.

    Google searchers are looking for tech stuff. Computers and supplies, TV and audio, software, games, etc.

    This info from my Apache log files.

    MSN, Dogpile, Altavista, Mama, and some other smallish engines are sending as much traffic as Google.

    Don't know what's up, but I wish I did.

    Frank
    "Just the facts, Ma'am." Sgt. Joe Friday, Dragnet

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm not confused about what Google's doing. It's pretty obvious they're pushing back profitable sites to motivate Adwords sales. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not only is this not obvious, i would disagree 100%, and curious. How does google know what sites are profitable?

    Chet

  16. #16
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I think Google is genuinely trying to get spam out of the SERPs and doesn't care really who gets dropped, as long as the results look relevant. I don't believe this is a genuine attempt to shaft webmasters though.

    I'm getting some unexpectedly good traffic for niche sites from Yahoo's free inclusion.. indeed on some of them I'm getting virtually zero Google traffic.

    However, I believe that Yahoo *is* in the busiess of shafting webmasters and past evidence has shown, and I'll certainly never join their paid program because they've ripped me off before and I guess they will happily do so again.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm not confused about what Google's doing. It's pretty obvious they're pushing back profitable sites to motivate Adwords sales. I've reluctantly started using Adwords because it's the only way I can get a decent response from Google traffic.

    They're bringing less profitable sites up in the SERPs while reducing their AdSense payout while pushing back profitable sites to get us to pay for advertising space on these less profitable sites. It's kinda sneaky, but going IPO has that effect on companies.

    These are just my theories. If somebody has anything further to add, I'd love to hear it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't agree at all with the "adword conspiracy" thing that has been floating around for the last couple of months.

    Instead, what it seems to really boil down to is that Google seems to be now rating sites based on their "hub" and "authority". How a site gets such a status is obviously somewhat of a mystery, but a good combination of many non-reciprocal backlinks (especially those that deep link) and deep content about a subject seems to give sites a boost.

    My main site has been doing awesome in Google in April - and the months before that. The site has hundreds of free backlinks - although many are from low PR pages or deep link into my site.

    My second site, with the exact same PR as my main site, is nowhere to be found in Google over the past few months. It ranks well in Yahoo though. The difference between this site and my main site is the number of links pointing to it - only a few sites link to it whereas my main site has hundreds.

    The reason I don't believe in the Adword thing is because this site is completely non-commercial (not one single ad) - and covers a topic that is also completely non-commercial.

    Google now seems to base their ranking much more on a combination of number of links and the quality of those links. Sites that are lacking in one or both of these categories seem to be forgotten about right now in Google.

    Yahoo, though, doesn't seem to place their emphasis on the backlinks a site has. While it is important, Yahoo seems to focus more on "on page" factors instead of "off page" like Google does. In some ways, Yahoo results right now look fairly similar to what Google use to look like pre-Florida many months ago.

    Anyways, for April I got 3 times the number of referrals on any given day from Google than from Yahoo. But my other site is lucky to get any traffic from Google but does very well in Yahoo.

  18. #18
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    Well i disagree with just about everything in this thread.

    Jason - "inktomi (msn and yahoo") Not the same, different.

    "It's pretty obvious they're pushing back profitable sites to motivate Adwords sales."

    Disagree. I still see affiliate sites showing, maybe somebody elses and not yours. I'm sure there are plenty of affiliates getting good Google traffic.

    "Maybe Yahoo converts better because of Yahoo DSL? I'm guessing maybe more Yahoo users have the money to afford DSL while more Google users are on dial-up"

    First i've never bought into the thing that one SE converts better than another, never made any sense to me. Half of all computer users have high speed internet and i don't think they use 1 SE over another. Since half the people have high speed internet, half searching with Yahoo have high speed, half searching Google have high speed etc.

    "Not for long Snib. As the merchants come in and buy the PI+CPC deals affiliates will get pushed back again."

    Disagree. Smart merchants wouldn't pay for it. Most merchants aren't dependent on SE for their traffic and most are in there free already, no need to pay. And for the ones that pay, it doesn't mean they will get top rankings. And the PPC/PFI pages account for less than 1% of the index.

    "Yahoo searchers are looking for household goods, clothing, shoes, and personal items.
    Google searchers are looking for tech stuff. Computers and supplies, TV and audio, software, games, etc."

    Disagree with that too. I think your logs are telling you that because you might happen to have good listings for those products in the different search engines. I'm sure if you looked at someone else's logs they can post the exact opposite.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador darkstar7's Avatar
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    Yahoo is kicking Google big time on my site too. But I believe that if you have a good converting site, it doesn't matter where you traffic comes from.

    Your site should be able to encourage direct or bookmarked return traffic and then convert that traffic to sales. So if you use SEs, direct marketing, print ads, etc., you still should see growing traffic and profits.
    Luke
    Have you promoted your brand name today?

  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well i disagree with just about everything in this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    About halfway down this thread, I was getting ready to post the exact same thing.

    For the record, my Google traffic is roughly an order of magnitude larger than Yahoo. If I can maintain my Google positions and figure out Yahoo...

  21. #21
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimh009:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm not confused about what Google's doing. It's pretty obvious they're pushing back profitable sites to motivate Adwords sales. I've reluctantly started using Adwords because it's the only way I can get a decent response from Google traffic.

    They're bringing less profitable sites up in the SERPs while reducing their AdSense payout while pushing back profitable sites to get us to pay for advertising space on these less profitable sites. It's kinda sneaky, but going IPO has that effect on companies.

    These are just my theories. If somebody has anything further to add, I'd love to hear it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't agree at all with the "adword conspiracy" thing that has been floating around for the last couple of months.

    Instead, what it seems to really boil down to is that Google seems to be now rating sites based on their "hub" and "authority". How a site gets such a status is obviously somewhat of a mystery, but a good combination of many non-reciprocal backlinks (especially those that deep link) and deep content about a subject seems to give sites a boost.

    My main site has been doing awesome in Google in April - and the months before that. The site has hundreds of free backlinks - although many are from low PR pages or deep link into my site.

    My second site, with the exact same PR as my main site, is nowhere to be found in Google over the past few months. It ranks well in Yahoo though. The difference between this site and my main site is the number of links pointing to it - only a few sites link to it whereas my main site has hundreds.

    The reason I don't believe in the Adword thing is because this site is completely non-commercial (not one single ad) - and covers a topic that is also completely non-commercial.

    Google now seems to base their ranking much more on a combination of number of links and the quality of those links. Sites that are lacking in one or both of these categories seem to be forgotten about right now in Google.

    Yahoo, though, doesn't seem to place their emphasis on the backlinks a site has. While it is important, Yahoo seems to focus more on "on page" factors instead of "off page" like Google does. In some ways, Yahoo results right now look fairly similar to what Google use to look like pre-Florida many months ago.

    Anyways, for April I got 3 times the number of referrals on any given day from Google than from Yahoo. But my other site is lucky to get any traffic from Google but does very well in Yahoo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You hit it perfectly Jimbo

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    So here's what I'm starting to think now. Sites that are fairly new or just not very useful or informative won't have many incoming links. Due to the nature of the Google changes, it might seem Google is making these sites fall back when really it's just the lack of establishment or functionality.

    I've been improving the functionality of my sites and increasing my incoming links and it has had a very positive effect on Google. It's not as easy as it was before to move up on Google, so it's easy to blame them for being selective.

    The fact that content sites are getting slightly better rankings may be due to their incoming links. I'm guessing a decent content site will get more incoming links because people respect the content and author.

    Products get less respect when it comes to naturally occurring incoming links. We really have to know the right people and have good relationships in order to get enough incoming link deals to compete with the content sites.

    So the solution is to offer more useful information that will generate more naturally occurring incoming links.

    Now I hope at least something I just said can be agreed upon

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So the solution is to offer more useful information that will generate more naturally occurring incoming links.

    Now I hope at least something I just said can be agreed upon <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You'll get no argument from me on that.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well i disagree with just about everything in this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Me, too. My Yahoo traffic dropped dramatically in April. Google traffic remained the same. I'm still getting in Google's top 10 results in a broad range of categories. Despite the drop in Yahoo! traffic conversions are up. This could be due to the fact that I get twice as many direct url type-ins and bookmarks than the total Google traffic. April stats showed 15% of my visitors came from bookmarks and only 7.4% came from Google.
    ~Ernie

  25. #25
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    I disagree with much of it too. About the only thing that I do agree with (unless I missed other things from skimming too fast through the thread) is the part about google and the backwards links. If you site is floundering, get more links and add more content. Throw up some more pages and get a ton more links. One of my biggest mistakes when starting out at this is spreading myself too thin and making too many sites before getting them ranked well. Now I have to backtrack and pick up all those links that I didn't get before. Don't stop after a dozen or so. Get more because your competition might be doing the same thing. Then again, there is a ton of misinformation on regarding all of this, so maybe mine isn't totally accurate or complete. Just a thought.
    I forgot what I was doing.

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