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  1. #1
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    Hello,

    About 6 months ago Google dropped the PR for the website of the company I work for from a PR6 to PR0 (the site is a large anti-spyware site existed since 2002). However we remained about 35,000 on Alexa. After many months of thinking why Google did this, investigating, re-desinging the site, changing the IP, E-mails with Google, etc.. (we tried almost everything) the PR is still 0.

    So, my question is, if Google has "banned" us, should we cheat Google to increase our hits? By cheating I mean setting up new domains, mirrors, feeder sites, redirects, and using other methods that some porn sites use to get higher ratings.... We are thinking that if Google does not play fair, why should we?

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks

    Andrei

  2. #2
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrei Han:
    Hello,

    About 6 months ago Google dropped the PR for the website of the company I work for from a PR6 to PR0 (the site is a large anti-spyware site existed since 2002). However we remained about 35,000 on Alexa. After many months of thinking why Google did this, investigating, re-desinging the site, changing the IP, E-mails with Google, etc.. (we tried almost everything) the PR is still 0.

    So, my question is, if Google has "banned" us, should we cheat Google to increase our hits? By cheating I mean setting up new domains, mirrors, feeder sites, redirects, and using other methods that some porn sites use to get higher ratings.... We are thinking that if Google does not play fair, why should we?

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks

    Andrei <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I'm kinda new to all this, but...the old saying is "two wrongs don't make a right!" Why not just use good old fashion word of mouth? That has always been the best (or worse)advertising anybody could use?! Better yet, believe it or not, writing a letter to the head honcho of the company actually gets peoples attention. Just a thought, never hurts to hear others opinions! What a great country!!!
    See ya, Robbie

  3. #3
    Affiliate Miester my2cents's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    So, my question is, if Google has "banned" us, should we cheat Google to increase our hits? By cheating I mean setting up new domains, mirrors, feeder sites, redirects, and using other methods that some porn sites use to get higher ratings.... We are thinking that if Google does not play fair, why should we?

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    are you telling us you dont already do these things???


    If that is the case i find it hard to beleive....


    Joe
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    that's my2cents, 'cuz I'm a legend in my own mind....

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    So you're asking if it's ethical to cheat?

    Umm, let's keep it simple.

    It's never, as in never, ethical to cheat. The two are diametrically opposed.

  5. #5
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Well, one way to recover from a PR0 penalty is to get a new domain and start over, but spamming the directory is just likely to get you banned again, and possibly also dropped from other SEs where you aren't banned.

    I've got to say.. an Alexa rank of 35,000 isn't a lot. OK, my top site has a rank of about that, but in visitor terms it's hardly enough to sustain a business.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager Seb-Medex's Avatar
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    If you say you would maybe cheat ....
    Are you sure they had not banned you because you've already done that ?

    Cheating one day, cheating all days ......
    [left][b]Sebastien Boyer[/b][/left]
    [left]Affiliate program manager[/left]
    [left]MedExpress Benefits Inc [/left]
    [left]email:affiliates@medexpressbenefits.com[/left][left][indent][i]MedExpress is leading the way in providing discounts on the Highest quality Healthcare.[/i] [url="http://www.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://www.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][left][i]Affiliate info & signup :[/i] [url="http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][/left][/indent][/left]

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robbie:
    Why not just use good old fashion word of mouth? That has always been the best (or worse)advertising anybody could use?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, this is the best way to regain PR, too. PR is dependent on inbound links.
    Dr. Strangeweb, or how I learned how to stop worrying about SERPS and love the WOM.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador ToughTurkey's Avatar
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    Usually a penalty returns a greyed out bar.

    Also are you still in the serps for your keywords? PR is not everything. A ton of useful info about this at webmasterworld.com

    http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/

  9. #9
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    A grey bar means the page isn't in the index, but a PR0 penalty shows a *white* bar which shows that you are indexed but Google thinks you are scum.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    *Ethical* to *cheat?* LOL

    But the body of your post seems to ask a different question--namely, "is it worth the risk/will it work?"--which is totally seperate from an ethical question.

    As for it being worth the effort/risk:

    Personally I'd think no--Google'll be watching for tricks revolving around that domain, especially since you contacted them. Contacting them puts a human into the mix when it may have just been a "blind" algo thing before. So now is the time to play it coooll...

    Plus, you don't want to get banned from Yahoo, in your quest to get back in Google. Y sends about as much traffic as G does, in my experience...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Google doesn't take kindly to anyone who fooled them once by SE spam tricks. Being that your product is a Anti-Spyware/Adware download I'd assume your installing the very products your claiming to remove. Tricking surfers via CPM Ads -PPCSE tricks and e-mail spamm often gets back to the SE sources in the form of consumer complaints. Many rogue Anti-Spyware products parade as cures, while whacking their duped public for a $30.00 clean fee, then sell off the CC and privacy info, disable free competitors and install Trojan Horse computer virus backdoors for side fee stuffing of more crapware.

    Since you didn't mention your product brand, the ABWers are often hesitant to revive your PR from the deadpool.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
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    I never heard of a large antispyware site with a PR0. It doesn't make any sense to me.

  13. #13
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    The site has never cheated to my knowlege, I can't find evidence of that. I know all the people who work for the site, (they are all programmers who developed the product and they don't even know what CPM means, lol!). The site has never advertised in the past. I belive the PR bar is all white, not gray. Remeber: from PR6 to PR0....

    Also, the site www.hotbot.com is also PR0, kind of funny since they are a compeditor of Google. This is pretty much the same problem that happened to our site. Sure, there are some subdomains that come up for hotbot.com if you seach on google, but if those subdomains did not exist, you would not see any matches for hotbot.com on Google.

    Cheers.

    Andrei

  14. #14
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    Just an update to this post: I have just learned that one other site on the server also has a PR of 0, I do not know how long this has been the case. However, I do know that at one time (not now), both sites that now have PR0 had the same IP addresss. The sites had nothing to do with each other and neither site has ever had an ad campaign. This is a great piece of information on how Google might work, giving PR0s to sites on the same IP. There are a few other sites on the server with different IPs and none of them are PR0.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Steveinid's Avatar
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    If I understand it correctly, Google will penalize you if you link to a banned site. Check to see who you are linking to and who is linking to you. You might be in bad company.

    Did Google reply to you? What did they say?
    Deleted

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is a great piece of information on how Google might work, giving PR0s to sites on the same IP. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have several sites on the same IP (and quite a few on different IPs, too), and their PRs range all over...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  17. #17
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    Leader, but do any of those sites have a PR0?

    Also, I told you we tried just about everything including checking our outbound links. I just checked them all now, they are all PR5, 6 and one 7.

    Steveinid, Google responded twice to at least 10 messages sent to them, all their template responses:
    Tuesday, June 29, 2004:
    -----------------
    Thank you for your note. We understand your concern and have passed your message on to our engineering team for further investigation.

    We appreciate your patience.

    Friday, July 09, 2004
    -----------------
    Thank you for your note. Unfortunately, we are unable to send personal
    responses to all of the requests we receive to review individual website
    content.

    If you are concerned that your website may have been penalized, please
    review our quality guidelines at
    http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html. Please do not hesitate
    to contact us if you identify problems with your website and make the
    changes necessary to comply with these guidelines.

    We are sorry that we cannot provide individual assistance at this time.
    -------------------

    Also, I know that the Googlebot is crawling the site (most of the pages) at least once a week. We have also reviewed each page and told our robots.txt to not let google index pages that we think have the slightest possibility of Google not liking them.

    Cheers and merry christmass.

    Andrei

  18. #18
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Hotbot is PR0 because of the robots.txt I think.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR># No robot will spider the domain
    User-agent: *
    Disallow: / <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It *is* possible that if another site on *your* server has done something evil, then Google may have manually applied a penalty to the IP address. I understand that this is quite rare though.

    The "bad neighborhoods" penalty is another possibility, as has been mentioned. If you link out to a site with a PR0, then you also could get a PR0, although this seems to be much rarer these days than it used to be. It *could* be something silly like having outbound links to spyware pushers (e.g. to removal instructions pages).
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  19. #19
    Affiliate Manager Seb-Medex's Avatar
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    Hi all,
    How can we check what is our PR ?

    best,
    [left][b]Sebastien Boyer[/b][/left]
    [left]Affiliate program manager[/left]
    [left]MedExpress Benefits Inc [/left]
    [left]email:affiliates@medexpressbenefits.com[/left][left][indent][i]MedExpress is leading the way in providing discounts on the Highest quality Healthcare.[/i] [url="http://www.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://www.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][left][i]Affiliate info & signup :[/i] [url="http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][/left][/indent][/left]

  20. #20
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    download the Google Toolbar:

    http://toolbar.google.com/

    Then just visit a site and hover your mouse over the PageRank bar and it will tell you.

  21. #21
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    I wouldn't put too much stock in the Google PR tool.

    This directly from the people at Google . . .

    "The PageRank that is displayed in the Google Toolbar is for entertainment purposes only. Due to repeated attempts by hackers to access this data, Google updates the PageRank data very infrequently because is it not secure. On average, the PR that is displayed in the Google Toolbar is several months old. If the toolbar is showing a PR of zero, this is because the user is visiting a new URL that hasn't been updated in the last update. The PR that is displayed by the Google Toolbar is not the same PR that is used to rank the webpage results so there is no need to be concerned if your PR is displayed as zero. If a site is showing up in the search results, it doesn't not have a real PR of zero, the Toolbar is just out of date."


    As to Alexa ranking ... see Alexa ranking thread HERE

  22. #22
    Affiliate Manager Seb-Medex's Avatar
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    So, we cant put confidence in PageRank and we cant put confidence in Alexa Ranking ...

    So does that means that there is nothing that could really give us a reliable figure of how a website is perfoming ?
    [left][b]Sebastien Boyer[/b][/left]
    [left]Affiliate program manager[/left]
    [left]MedExpress Benefits Inc [/left]
    [left]email:affiliates@medexpressbenefits.com[/left][left][indent][i]MedExpress is leading the way in providing discounts on the Highest quality Healthcare.[/i] [url="http://www.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://www.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][left][i]Affiliate info & signup :[/i] [url="http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][/left][/indent][/left]

  23. #23
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So does that means that there is nothing that could really give us a reliable figure of how a website is perfoming ?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    variations on net income should mean something.

  24. #24
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    Well I think it is fair to say that if you see your hits from Google at around 150 per day one week and and 1 per day the next (to the present day, just what happened to us) then your Google PR is really 0.

  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager Seb-Medex's Avatar
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    Herb I was meaning before having a pertnership with that website ...

    regards,
    [left][b]Sebastien Boyer[/b][/left]
    [left]Affiliate program manager[/left]
    [left]MedExpress Benefits Inc [/left]
    [left]email:affiliates@medexpressbenefits.com[/left][left][indent][i]MedExpress is leading the way in providing discounts on the Highest quality Healthcare.[/i] [url="http://www.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://www.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][left][i]Affiliate info & signup :[/i] [url="http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com"]http://affiliates.medexpressbenefits.com[/url][/left][/indent][/left]

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