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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    ===========================================
    All the folowing is copied on 6/03 from http://www.abestweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/...;f=25;t=000039
    ===========================================


    Hi Jenn,

    I wanted to touch base with you first about Gator before we try to get them to change ourselves.

    I realize that they are merchants within the BeFree system, but I wanted to know how you could allow such a company to remain in the network.

    Competing Contextual advertising via popups and sliders while stealing affiliate traffic just is not right. Can you ask them/preclude them from stealing fellow affiliates traffic? If not, why not?

    Haiko

    [ 06-03-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  2. #2
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I've wondered the same thing too.. I'm quite new to BeFree being a CJ-only merchant before.

    I was frankly shocked to see Gator listed bearing in mind that they actively work against the interests of affiliates.

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    You'll see that Gain poped up an ad for JCPenny on MY affiliate link for Overstock.com ... I'm not happy about that and would like an answer!

    Haiko
    PS Full size image is here

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    OneTravel is one of your Merchants :eek:

    Haiko

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Removed Screenshot per Merchant request!

    [ 06-04-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  6. #6
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    quote:
    OneTravel is one of your Merchants


    D@mmmit

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Eaglefire,

    They have a private program also [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  8. #8
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    I'm in the private one - but wouldn't those ads still be serving on top of the site?

    I was going to call them today with some questions ... maybe I will ask them how they feel about Expedia ads being served on top of their site when someone clicks on an affiliates' link.

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Haiko as Morpheus knuckles under for ID# swappingg they'll just join Gator ShopNow eBates and a slew of other keyword/link Hijackers to overlay popups at competing merchants sites. ABW needs a list showing the merchants that pay big fees to overlay our click throughs since my prior postings show the Morpheus list converted 90% less for me over the last 12 months.

    We do not need to waste our time and PPC monies to showcase merchants thta allow other duperaffiliates like Gator to steal our referral at the point of sale. Any merchant feverously feeding coupons -specials and incent offers to the Duperaffiliates have no time to work on creatives for our conversions. We are not bird dogs filtering targeted traffic for Gator to swallow them up. These parasites just Interlop on our traffic getting a FREE RIDE on our efforts.

    Coupons feed the parasites and under every parasite is a spam farmer seeking the bones after the Gators swallow the meat.. Let's get a list of those merchants who have their sites on multiple parasite/Morpheus/ShopNow hijacking services. Yes they all are hijacking services who perform ZERO sales from their own sites by legit affiliate links.

  10. #10
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    I just spoke to One Travel as I had to give them a call anyway. The rep I spoke to said he is no fan of Gator and wasn't too happy about this [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] - I invited him over for a look.

    [ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    My 2 cents on cutting this splurge of Duperaffiliates and hijackers:
    ABW members who have "incent" type sites often get turned away from legit merchant programs. All parasite/scumware hijackers ARE INCENT PROGRAMs automated by the networks. They by design and investment are catered too and enabled by the networks.

    Fact- we affiliates are not in the business of advertising for these merchants. That earns us ZIP and is the basis of all our rants. All INCENT offerings are pure ADVERTISING ploys used by the direct mail industry and Ad brokers. Since incent deals cost merchants more money than pure sales links ( ala TigerDirect model) they are shooting themselves in the foot and us in the head by pushing these through the affiliate marketing channel.

    Fact...If merchants offer ZERO incent deals the parasites and hijackers will dry up and just go away....comments please.

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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  13. #13
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I guess Ubid's spam campaign didn't work out to well [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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  15. #15
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    The nerve.
    quote:


    Are You a Frustrated Affiliate?




    With crap like that going on - of course

    [ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    ^BUMP^

  17. #17
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    Mike,

    The incent deals might cost more than Andy's way, but the results are much better.

    They brand, they don't have to pay affiliates and they don't have to pay the fee to beScrewed for the sale.

    So for X dollars per month you get all the exposure you can steal.

    [Edit] Snare and beScrewed are too dump to figure it all out. Duh, they pay us a monthly fee plus 20%. We are happy.

    So they collect their monthly fee and lose
    20 times that in lost 20% of the stolen sales.

    You got to be a rocket scientist to work for CJ, Snare and BeScrewed...NOT.

    [ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Your right there Fred. LS and BeFree spent all their programming efforts to automate the "incent" parasites. The never figured in the fact that the "incent" Duperaffiliates would lower regular affiliate conversions by 80%. It was easier to sell "have your link on a competitors site" than offer a real value through pre-sell targeted normal affiliate referrals. Hijacking for ransom and bank robbery all require less work than a 9 to 5 job. [EDIT - Inappropriate!]

    [ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE][EDIT - Inappropriate!]QUOTE]

    Only a thoughtless idiot would post something like that Mike. I have seen other posts where you equated management of one or another of the providers as being on par with Osama Bin Laden; that too sounds much like the rantings of a lunatic.

    Shame on you!

    Obstinatedon

    [ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  20. #20
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    Hi, I'm Heather; I work with Jenn, and will be helping her out on these boards from time to time. I'm excited to "meet" you all, and hope to help you with your questions, suggestions, and concerns.

    It is true that Gator is a Be Free customer, however Gator is not doing anything illegal. With Gator, consumers are told explicitly that they are downloading the eWallet and the Offer Companion. Unlike other shopping comparison tools, the consumer knows what they are getting.

    While you may not appreciate businesses like these, they aren't breaking any laws, nor in this case being covert about their business model.

    I look forward to chatting with you in the future.

    Heather

  21. #21
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Hi Heather,

    quote:
    It is true that Gator is a Be Free customer, however Gator is not doing anything illegal.


    Actually that is arguable, and personally I'm just waiting for one of the large "legitimate" affiliate sites to take legal action over lost reveneues.

    But legal or no, Gator is actively damaging to affiliates (and merchants!) through its business practices. These people are your customers!

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
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    This is a clear statement that BeFree considers predatory link placement to be an acceptable method of doing business online.

    Sad.

    "Not doing anything illegal" is not exactly a high standard of ethics. Especially since the law is so far behind cyberspace realities!

  23. #23
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Heather,

    Welcome to ABW. I'm happy to see you here and that my conversation yesterday with Steve was fruitful and BF will again be taking a more proactive approach to affiliate inquiries.

    Congratulations to you, Steve and to BF for coming back.

    As far as Tiger is concerned, I feel the more open BF is with our affiliates, the more affiliates that will sign up for our program and other merchant programs on BF.

    I encourage you to continue this open channel as we bring everyone to the table, resolve issues and grow the industry for all parties involved.

    Have a great day !

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Heather,

    Hi and Welcome to ABW!

    BF's lack of "ethics" with Gator is quite unfortunate ... I see blind or drive by downloads are ok with BF!

    I, respectfully, feel that your lack of initiative is because of:

    Nielsen/NetRatings
    Week end of April 28, 2002, U.S

    #12 Gator.com 4,436,891 Uniques 5.55% Reach and 0:10:06 as Time per person.

    ... and because BF has $270MM in cash and Gator isn't a pauper either.

    Haiko

  25. #25
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    Heather,

    I'm glad you and BeFree condone theft.

    The problem with Gator has nothing to do with the consumers - it has to do with Gator
    stealing traffic and sales from legitmate affiliates of various merchants thru what amounts to hijacking their webpages and plain old theft thru unlawful conversion.

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