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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Colorado River, Bullhead City AZ
    It's a long letter, but for those that don't subscribe, here it is.

    The LED Digest
    Moderated Discussion List
    "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" ==================================================
    List Moderator: Published by:
    Adam Audette LED Digest
    May 8, 2003 Issue #1576

    .....IN THIS DIGEST.....

    ==== CONTINUING =================

    --== Overture Partnering with Gator? ==--

    ~ Robert McRackan
    "...computers with Gator software installed on them
    were replacing any tracking referral IDs..."

    ~ Mike Koenigs
    "Until Overture gets rid of this partnership, I'm not
    spending another dollar with them..."

    ~ Richard Henshaw-Dann
    "You have to be exceedingly careful when
    un-installing Gator..."

    --== Google's PageRank ==--

    ~ Stewart
    "I just ran across an article by Jerry West titled
    "Uncovering Google's PageRank System"..."

    ~ Michael Martinez
    "There are TWO PAGERANKS."

    ==== BILLBOARD ===================

    --== Laws Aimed at Spammers ==--
    ~ Wanda Husick
    ~ Ronni Rhodes

    --== Drop in Google Ranking ==--
    ~ Alex Hughart

    ===== CONTINUING =================================

    From: Robert McRackan
    Subject: Overture Gator

    > I have used Gator to keep and maintain my passwords and
    > to assist in filling in online forms since the company began several
    > years ago. The system is reliable and provides a valuable asset.
    - Stephen Schneider, LED 1574

    If there is any way that I could be more shocked at Mr. Schneider's
    pro-Gator letter, I'm not sure how!

    Not only have I never seen or heard about a single positive comment
    of Gator and the GAIN network (prior to his letter), but I can also
    personally attest to the damage it does to PCs and the damage it
    does to business.

    My last job was as the Affiliate Account Administrator at a dot-com
    with an in-house affiliate program of over 40,000 people. (The
    company still has a lawsuit pending with GAIN so I'll not say their

    Within a week of Gator / GAIN signing up, their profits skyrocketed
    and the profits of all other affiliates plummeted by a comparable
    amount. When 4 out of our top 5 affiliates noticed the sharp and
    sudden decline in their profits, I asked our IT team to look into it.

    After much frustration, our IT team discovered that computers with
    Gator software installed on them were replacing any tracking
    referral IDs with the one they signed up with. Basically, my site
    "" has an affiliate program, the progress of which is tracked
    with affiliate ID numbers so that they work even if cookies are

    A surfer visits an affiliate of ours: "" with referral ID
    123. Gator has ID 987. When the surfer (with Gator installed on
    their computer) clicks on an affiliate link on to, Gator replaces the ID number and the visitor goes to

    This means that even though our affiliates were responsible for
    bringing us new clients, they earned nothing and Gator earned their
    commissions. Gator claimed this was simply a tracking feature of a
    plug in they installed.

    With the consent of my manager and VP, I froze their account due to
    suspicious behavior. Justice served? Not really. Before I left the
    company almost a year ago, they still had not decided a fair way to
    compensate those cheated by Gator.

    Anyone who is having problems with this viral program and cannot
    remove it from their computer is encouraged to use Ad-Aware by
    Lavasoft. They have a free version that I love and die by which can
    be found here:

    Robert McRackan, Senior Technical Engineer


    ------- new post - same topic -------

    From: Mike Koenigs
    Subject: Overture Gator

    > [Gator] is reliable and provides a valuable asset.
    - Stephen Schneider, LED 1574

    IMO this is complete nonsense. There are literally dozens of
    applications that do this sort of "child's work" for you (just visit for a list) without the "evils" that Gator does.

    Speaking of evil, let me walk through some specifics:

    I completely agree with the other postings:

    - The fact that Overture has done a deal with Gator more or less
    "invisibly" makes me question the ethics and integrity of the company

    - I despise the fact that Gator *mostly* installs itself (and has in
    the past) using both questionable or with deceptive means.

    For example, I've mispelled a company name and wound up on a
    cybersquatter's site somewhere on the Internet by accident. Often,
    I'll see Gator's ActiveX installer pop-up asking you if I want to
    install Gator on my machine from that site.

    Another example are with P2P applications -- Gator's junk is
    installed whether you like it or not.

    I've read articles from several shareware / freeware authors that
    installed Gator with their applications, thinking they would be
    making advertising revenue through Gator's affiliate program.
    Without exception, they all said it wasn't worth the pennies they
    made compared to the frustration it gave their users.

    Secondly, the simple fact that Gator's main revenue "partners" are
    P2P applications should tell you something: The people who have this
    product installed on their machines are PIRATING SOFTWARE AND MUSIC.
    Look, if these people are looking for free stuff and stealing stuff
    on the net, what's the probability that they're actually going to
    buy something from your pop-up?

    I'll answer that for you: NONE.

    Let's walk through a scenario:

    - You give some of your hard-earned advertising cash to Overture

    - You spend hours finding appropriate keywords to bid on

    - You wait for visitors and orders

    - Someone types in the search term you paid for in a P2P application

    - Gator serves up the ad in an annoying pop-up

    - P2P user clicks close box on ad (or he installs an anti-pop-up
    application on his machine that does it for him)

    - Your money is wasted!

    Wow! Thanks Overture! That's a great partner!

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but I've visited Gator's site,
    examined their presentations and paid attention to what they've been
    doing since it was released. So far, I remain unconvinced as to
    their value.

    Hey look, everyone wants and needs to make money, but Gator gets on
    people's computers mostly through deceptive means. As far as I'm
    concerned, they're another form of deceptive spam. Speaking for
    myself, I avoid sites that display pop-up ads. It's another form of
    annoying spam.

    Until Overture gets rid of this partnership, I'm not spending
    another dollar with them, nor will I recommend any of my clients do
    the same.

    Mike Koenigs

    Electronic Marketing Strategy that Breaks the Rules Without Breaking The Law


    ------- new post - same topic -------

    From: Richard Henshaw-Dann
    Subject: Overture Gator

    You have to be exceedingly careful when un-installing Gator as it
    does not remove all the ad-ware it installs on your behalf!

    I would recommend one of the ad-ware cleaning tools such as AD-AWARE
    from Lavasoft (direct download: ) to ensure you
    clean all traces of this parasitic programme from your pc.

    Richard Henshaw-Dann


    Show me the Big Bucks!

  2. #2
    I like traffic lights
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Southern hemisphere - away from Fukushima
    Thanks for that Gearshopper.

    Perhaps you could post a reply to the newsletter recommending their subscribers install the DoxDesk spyware detector, to help spread awareness of the problem?

    Jimmy James Inc. fan club membership # 3312

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