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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    My husband used Aluria spyware to clean the computer and found this.

  2. #2
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Did it remove the cookies from his system which would cause affiliates to lose commission??

    Please check and let me know. I have a contact there.

    Linda Buquet ~ Affiliate Management Consultant ~ Catalyst eMarketing.com
    Representing 5 Star Affiliate Programs: DentalPlans|zZounds|Irv's Luggage|Roadloans

  3. #3
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I know Spybot S&D does this too.. the reason is that they're tracking cookies, not really spyware. It's a PITA, but it's also a case of swings and roundabouts because it does clean the parasites off the machine.

    ________
    All your commission are belong to us.
    Check out the latest Homeland Security press releases.

  4. #4
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Did it remove the cookies from his system which would cause affiliates to lose commission??

    Please check and let me know. I have a contact there
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Yes. If I click the default select all and clean, everything it highlights will be gone.

    Umm..How do I paste a gif file from my pc to this post?

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Umm..How do I paste a gif file from my pc to this post? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Attachments must be approved

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  6. #6
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    The reason why Aluria's Spyware Elimininator detects CJ Cookies as a "low threat" spyware is because their cookies are read by other websites and tracking information is recorded from those cookies. It's not that CJ cookies are actual spyware or adware, they are used as a resource by the real offenders.

    Quite honestly CJ should consider alternative methods of tracking affiliate information. (Like changing their cookies a regular basis so that offenders will not be able to use them)

    Haiko, I'd love to do a poll here that would allow affiliates to decide whether or not they would like to have us detect or not dectect. Is that possible?

    Missy Ward
    President
    Aluria Software, LLC
    missy@aluriasoftware.com
    AIM: MsMissyWard

  7. #7
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I guess it does make the product slightly unattractive from an affiliate point of view. If 75% of sales are from affiliates, I betcha a lot of them are CJ members too.

    ________
    All your commission are belong to us.
    Check out the latest Homeland Security press releases.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dynamoo:
    Hmmm... I guess it does make the product slightly unattractive from an affiliate point of view. If 75% of sales are from affiliates, I betcha a lot of them are CJ members too.

    ________
    Hence the reason why I would like to do a poll. I am extremely interested in the feedback in order to make our product good for all.

    As an FYI, we do offer the ability for the end user to decide what they would like to remove from their computer.

    Missy Ward
    President
    Aluria Software, LLC
    missy@aluriasoftware.com
    AIM: MsMissyWard

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Missy ...make your program defaults set to NOT block major affiliate networks cookies. Then you endusers can chhose to bloick them if they wish.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Missy ...make your program defaults set to NOT block major affiliate networks cookies. Then you endusers can chhose to bloick them if they wish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeah I agree with Mike.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Missy, I strongly agree with Mike.

    My biggest concern is alot of people using your software may not be savvy enough to know what's really going on. They have no idea, nor do they care that affiliate cookies are being deleted. If they know what they are doing and CHOOSE to delete them they should have that right but it should not be the default.

    Linda Buquet ~ Affiliate Management Consultant ~ Catalyst eMarketing.com
    Representing www.5StarAffiliatePrograms.com: DentalPlans|Irv's Luggage|Executive Essentials|IntellicontactPro|zZounds|Roadloans

  12. #12
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Missy,

    All you need to do for a poll is go here http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=frm&...9&f=7776002001 click on New then Poll.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The reason why Aluria's Spyware Elimininator detects CJ Cookies as a "low threat" spyware is because their cookies are read by other websites and tracking information is recorded from those cookies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Exactly what other sites are reading CJ and other network cookies??? I thought a cookie could only be read by the issuing site? Also CJ's cookies are encrypted aren't they? And what exact tracking information is being read from them? PID's, AID's, exactly what?

    Also being that Aluria flags the network cookies because other site's read them, what about the Aluria tracking cookie? Is it getting flagged also by your software? Wondering because of some info I've heard regarding tracking issues with the Aluria affiliate program.

    It's Your Money. You earned it. What are you going to do to make sure you get to keep it?

  13. #13
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    So anyone who tries the software first - will get their cookie deleted and the affiliate will not get paid??? If that is true, that is nuts.


    Missy, please make the case for why the CJ cookie should be deleted. I see no information in your post on why it should and I believe you misunderstand the technology.

    As far as I am concerned, your product is the enemy and I will never promote it and have actively steered people away from it (and all your software) and will continue to do so. Sad thing is - it is getting hard to find anything to steer people to past the detox pages.

    Chet

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Exactly what other sites are reading CJ and other network cookies??? I thought a cookie could only be read by the issuing site? Also CJ's cookies are encrypted aren't they? And what exact tracking information is being read from them? PID's, AID's, exactly what?

    It's not necessarily about websites reading the cookie because only the issuing website can read the cookie. It is my understanding that the problem is Software. There is software specifically designed to read anything on your computer -- including cookies. Not only can it decrypt, and write to it, but it can also transmit the information to whomever it wants. Hence the epidemic of hijacked affiliate commissions.

    Also being that Aluria flags the network cookies because other site's read them, what about the Aluria tracking cookie? Is it getting flagged also by your software? Wondering because of some info I've heard regarding tracking issues with the Aluria affiliate program.

    As of today there is no spyware designed to "mess" with our cookie. Trust me though, the day that it's designed, is the day that we will have it eliminated. In addition, Aluria's tracking isn't solely reliant on cookies. Any company that solely relies on cookies to track everything in this day in age is doing their affilaites an injustice.

    As far as tracking issues are concerned with our Affiliate Program, I've heard none. However should there be some sort of issue please contact me immediately! Here is my direct phone line: (407) 585-2944. I can also be reached on AIM: MsMissyWard or email: missy@aluriasoftware.com.

    Aluria takes it's affiliate relationships very seriously. You are always welcome to contact me!


    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Missy Ward
    President
    Aluria Software, LLC
    missy@aluriasoftware.com
    AIM: MsMissyWard

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The reason why Aluria's Spyware Elimininator detects CJ Cookies as a "low threat" spyware is because their cookies are read by other websites and tracking information is recorded from those cookies. It's not that CJ cookies are actual spyware or adware, they are used as a resource by the real offenders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    This makes 0 sense. Are you saying that you're removing all affiliate tracking cookies proactively since some of them may have been set and/or tampered with by parasitic applications?

    ----
    -JM

  16. #16
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    Missy, you should really stop and talk to one of the techs before you post again because your post is very misinformed.

    First - besides cookies, there is no way to track over X days the same user back to the site. You cannot base it on ip etc. It is a cookie. Yes, even in this day and age.


    There is software designed to attack outlook and send all the mail from your address book. Is your software going to start deleting outlook? And this is not why there are hijacked comissions, that is such twisted BS spin on your part my head is reeling.

    And you go on with the misinformation and misunderstanding - but thank god - you don't delete your own cookie. Well woop de doo. Your saying no software is designed to mess with your cookie - do you have any idea what you are talking about? Do you think your cookie is any different than any other cookie on a persons computer - remember they can be all exploited!!!! Remember, or don't you listen to your own post?

    I cannot think of a single post by a merchant ever that should get every affiliate to run as far and as fast away as this post from Missy.

    Missy, your post is misleading and misleading for the purpose of trying to make your company look better for having a poorly thoughtout product that harms affiliates.

    But as I have learned, since you used nice words, you are being professional, so it is okay.

    Chet

  17. #17
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    Chet -

    ... And I will always use nice words.

    Our company is out to protect privacy which every Internet user should be concerned about.
    We are certainly not out to harm affiliates. Your comment is just silly.

    I am open to modifying the software in any way that will protect all parties as I stated earlier.

    Do you have a problem with that too?

    Missy Ward
    President
    Aluria Software, LLC
    missy@aluriasoftware.com
    AIM: MsMissyWard

  18. #18
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    Missy, your software does more to harm affiliates than any piece of scumware. It directly cuts everyone down to a zero day cookie.

    Why in the world would an affiliate promote your product knowing everyone who buys it or even tries it, will get their affiliate network cookies cut to zero days? How in the world is that not harming affiliates? Only the networks are reading the cookies, so it is not even a security issue.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am open to modifying the software in any way that will protect all parties as I stated earlier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is the most disingenuous sentence you could utter. You are a big girl, you know the issue, you know what your software does (okay from your above post maybe you don't) but the issue is clear, you should need no prodding or poll.

    Tell me, please, how is cutting every network affiliate to zero days not harming affiliates? Please, put a good spin on it, tell me how it is actually empowering us to find merchants who will not be affected by aluriasoft's software?

    That is ludicrous. As always, the more the lies, the more the bs - the more the hiding behind - "i am being professional". Some thieves consider them professional thieves, is that how you cover yourself?

    Chet

  19. #19
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    Missy,

    I have to agree with EcomCity on the idea to perhaps make the application defaults set to NOT block major affiliate networks cookies.

    Paul Diemer, President
    Bit Wise Publishing, LLC
    http://www.bitwisepublishing.com

  20. #20
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    All,

    As may of you are well aware Aluria has always been pro-affiliate. In fact on 10/31/02 on Thiefware.com, Curt Dunmire brought up this exact issue. (Unfortunately I can find it in the search but the thread is no longer accesible. Curt may have it in archive and we may be able to get it from him.) Back then we responded that we agreed that "Good" affiliate cookies should be protected. It was my undertanding that our product was modified to protect just that. In a few minutes our lead developer of Spyware Eliminator is going to post his comments to this thread. After we all see what he posts, I will come back and respond.

    KNOW THIS we are the only anti-spyware appication that has ever actively sought to protect Affiliate cookies. We will continue to work toward that goal.

    Missy Ward
    President
    Aluria Software, LLC
    missy@aluriasoftware.com
    AIM: MsMissyWard

  21. #21
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    Let me get this straight. The issue was brought up 8 months ago. And it still exists. And this shows you are affiliate friendly?

    Where do ams get off on this? Being affiliate friendly does not mean just listening to affiliates and doing nothing - it means acting!!!!!!!!

    Chet

  22. #22
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    Let’s get a definition of a Spyware cookie first. From several links on the internet:

    “Spyware comes in a variety of forms. The most common are "Spyware cookies" and "Spyware programs". A Spyware cookie is any cookie that is not used only by a single web site for its private interactions with its users, but is shared across multiple sites. When multiple web sites read from the same cookie, or when they pass info from the cookie on to another site, those sites effectively share your personal information without your permission. Although Spyware cookies are not that dangerous, they do invade your privacy and exploit your personal information for gain. Most people hate the fact someone is watching and tracking them while they use the Internet and then selling your information to unscrupulous marketers and even spam operators.”

    Many site operators and Net advertising companies place Web bugs on their pages to collect information, such as which pages are being read most often… the bugs also can be used in more invasive ways, capturing a visitor's (IP) address or installing pernicious files…The bugs can also be matched with "cookies," the electronic files that are stored on a PC and can contain personal information such as name and e-mail address." Even more devious, in a recent demonstration by the Denver based Privacy Council, a one pixel gif can be used to steal a computer user's entire e-mail address book merely by clicking on a bugged web page. Other examples were tiny executable files placed by the web bug on the user's hard drive that collects online information tracking web visits, or monitoring documents for specific words such as "financial", without any notice to the user. Another form of one pixel gif can be attached to an email, enabling the sender to retrieve information from the recipient, or secretly send copies back to the sender when the e-mail is replied to or forwarded. Some anti-virus and firewall software can protect computers from some web bugs, but they can be very difficult to detect, and the antivirus publishers are working to enhance their protection. "


    References:

    List of cookies detected by Pest Patrol: http://www.pestpatrol.com/Support/Ab...re_Cookies.asp
    http://www.tcs.org/ioport/jun01/cookies.htm
    http://www.invisus.com/products/hack...tion_tool.html
    http://www.softwaresecuritysolutions.com/glossary.htm


    A very lengthy explanation privacy on the Internet: http://www.epic.org/privacy/internet/NAI_analysis.html


    It’s important to understand that Aluria is not targeting Commission Junction or Affiliate based cookies simply because they are affiliates. We take Internet Privacy very seriously and if ANY company is profiling customers via Spyware Cookies they will be targeted as well. We are in the business of giving consumer’s back their privacy that has been taken away, whether it is a cookie, a browser helper object, Drive-by Active X, etc. We do not blatantly remove all cookies from a user’s computer. In fact we have no problem with cookies that maintain a user’s preferences, etc. for a particular site. But when that cookie is shared by a company with other marketers to profile users then we add them to our list. We are not a cookie cleaner type of software. We do not find all cookies and remove them. We realize that companies do use cookies to track affiliate codes and hence we did not turn our product into an all around cookie cleaner.



    Chet, you are incorrect in some of your statements.

    “So anyone who tries the software first - will get their cookie deleted and the affiliate will not get paid??? If that is true, that is nuts.“

    We do not remove all cookies, and in fact our free trial version does not remove any cookies or files for that matter it just reports them to the user. So this is completely inaccurate.



    “There is software designed to attack outlook and send all the mail from your address book. Is your software going to start deleting outlook?”



    In fact we do target a few Spyware items that hit your Outlook. Remember Friend Greeting? If Spyware is on a system, we will target it. That’s why consumers love our software and our affiliates make quite a bit of money. Your statement about deleting Outlook was a little over the top their. With all of the thousands of customers we have that use this software daily (and we know it because of all the praise mail we get), we have support people that look like the Maytag repairman. They wait for support mail because we have none.



    It’s pretty apparent that you have no concern over a user’s privacy. Having an affiliate program that exploits customers is perfectly okay with you. Do you honestly think Aluria tracks cookies for the sole purpose of harming affiliates and their commissions? That’s a line of BS straight from you. You can run any other Spyware Application on the market and you will get the same cookie results. Are you going to contact them as well and let them know that they should stop protecting consumers because its hurting affiliate sales? Like I stated earlier, Aluria understands the importance of Affiliate marketing probably better then most affiliates in the market.



    "Tell me, please, how is cutting every network affiliate to zero days not harming affiliates? Please, put a good spin on it, tell me how it is actually empowering us to find merchants who will not be affected by aluriasoft's software?"



    You should start by finding an affiliate company who doesn’t use Spyware cookies. That’s the first step. You honestly think that Aluria Software is the sole reason for detecting Spyware cookies? You should bring up this topic of Spyware cookies into some more educated forums. You seem to be very knowledgeable. Let me give you some forum links where you can discuss the technology of Spyware cookies just a tad further.



    http://www.spywareinfo.com/forums

    http://www.lavasoftsupport.com

    http://cexx.org/

    http://forums.thiefware.com/cgi-in/i...=Login;CODE=00



    Most of the Internet community (including us) view Spyware cookies as the smallest threat. We stated earlier that we would be willing to work with Affiliates to figure out the best way to make everybody happy. Clearly the moral solution is to abandon companies that use Spyware cookies or profiling or have those companies change their practices.



    People are more and more concerned about their privacy and they have a right to be. Do you disagree?

    Ken Lloyd
    Lead Developer, ASE
    Aluria Software

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the bugs also can be used in more invasive ways, capturing a visitor's (IP) address or installing pernicious files…The bugs can also be matched with "cookies," the electronic files that are stored on a PC and can contain personal information such as name and e-mail address." Even more devious, in a recent demonstration by the Denver based Privacy Council, a one pixel gif can be used to steal a computer user's entire e-mail address book merely by clicking on a bugged web page. Other examples were tiny executable files placed by the web bug on the user's hard drive that collects online information tracking web visits, or monitoring documents for specific words such as "financial", without any notice to the user. Another form of one pixel gif can be attached to an email, enabling the sender to retrieve information from the recipient, or secretly send copies back to the sender when the e-mail is replied to or forwarded. Some anti-virus and firewall software can protect computers from some web bugs, but they can be very difficult to detect, and the antivirus publishers are working to enhance their protection. " <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Great marketing spiel to frighten consumers and sell your product to paranoid neophytes.

    However, I fail to understand why you included this in your post to the informed affiliates of ABW. I'd hope as a developer you realize that that information is extremely misleading and bordering on being downright false.

    Or am I wrong? Please show me an example of "a one pixel gif can be used to steal a computer user's entire e-mail address book merely by clicking on a bugged web page" -- without taking advantage of a vulnerability in some version of IE.


    I agree that technically from an extremist privacy position any affiliate tracking device, well, some would consider it an invasion of their privacy, or as "spy" ware. But, some consider a site logging their IP as part of the normal course of operating a web server to be spying on them as well. Watcha gonna do?

    Would it be possible to give an explanation of why you remove affiliate tracking cookies, and which merchants and/or networks, in your own words, without quoting some lengthy spiel from another site?

    I'm confused about "not used only by a single web site" (amont other things). Does this mean anytime an affiliate network is involved, you consider it spyware (since a third party is involved)?


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You should start by finding an affiliate company who doesn’t use Spyware cookies. That’s the first step. You honestly think that Aluria Software is the sole reason for detecting Spyware cookies? You should bring up this topic of Spyware cookies into some more educated forums<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Huh? Aluria the reason for removing? Affiliate company who doesn't use Spyware cookies? Can you suggest one? It doesn't sound like any affiliate network (which tracks beyond a single browser session) could meet your definition of non spyware.

    All in all considering how much and how long Aluria and some of its employees are involved in the affiliate marketing world, and considering that "this model accounts for nearly 75% of software sales," it seems a poor decision to clear or even flag any affiliate tracking cookies.

    Worst reasonable case seems to be to flag these as potential invasions of privacy, used for tracking sales transactions online, and to have the user take an extra step above and beyond the normal "check/clean" to remove them.


    Thanks for your time and reply.
    ----
    -JM

    [This message was edited by Joseph Monuit on July 17, 2003 at 06:31 PM.]

  24. #24
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Cookies are not a means of spying.

  25. #25
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    Thanks Missy and Snap1. Thanks for proving Aluria is forced to use scare tactics to cover their behinds. Also thanks for pointing out Missy was wrong. Now some might say Missy was lying, but that would be unprofessional, she was just "misinformed."

    So I stand by the idea. If you are an affiliate who promotes Aluria, and only Aluria - keep promoting them. But if you want to get paid by any other affiliate program, do not promote Aluria, it will cut your earnings.

    And Ken, seriously, the moral stance would be for Missy to not come in here spewing BS and then you following up with scare bs that somehow CJ is going to steal your entire email address book if you accept their cookie.

    The moral and ethical thing would not to be so full of BS. And clearly the moral, ethical and financial solution to every affiliate out there is to not promote your product.

    And I am concerned about privacy. I am concerned enough to state facts and not try and scare people over issue that are not problems.

    Since you and Missy are both so disingenuous, I will make sure to take time today out of my busy schedule and spread the word on every affiliate forum I can find, avoid aluria. While browsing around, will also take the time to inform any webmasters I see promoting your products.

    There is one thing I cannot stand, that is deceit like your company pumps out.

    Chet

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