Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,219
    Here is there letter:

    Once we approach first quarter, 2004, I will be concentrating on strengthening our EPC. As you may be aware, a high click / low sale relationship negatively affects our EPC. Therefore, I will be monitoring and working with affiliates that are operating at a high click rate / low sale output.


    --------------------------------------------

    Not every time but once in a while there is a director change and the IDIOT automatically thinks its time to complain to the affiliates.

    Can someone please tell my why any company would believe its the affiliates that need assistance when there is a high click through and low sales output?

    This company in particular is actually not targeting their audience correctly. They claim to sell sporting goods. When I really looked throughout the site they actually only sell Sportswear.

    Sorry to come off so angry but I’m really tired of IDIOT Directors and there idiotic letters. Not that long ago there was a thread about reading CJ mail, I read CJ mail twice some times 3 times a day. I can understand why others do not wish to read the email. I must say this is the first communication I received from this idiot and his company. Hell of a way to say Hello!

    SandraR


  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    home
    Posts
    2,395
    Is it possible that you do get alot of click through and sales but it is overwritten by parasite?

    It sure makes you wonder right?
    Is that merchants that send you the email associated with parasite?

    ------------------------------
    What does the COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commissions.
    Don't worry! Tracking is infected!
    ------------------------------
    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Colorado River, Bullhead City AZ
    Posts
    1,604
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nova - Mrs. Happypoon:
    Is it possible that you do get alot of click through and sales but it is overwritten by parasite?

    It sure makes you wonder right?
    Is that merchants that send you the email associated with parasite?



    Smartest thing said on this board all day.

    Allen

  4. #4
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,540
    quote:
    Originally posted by SandraR:
    Can someone please tell my why any company would believe its the affiliates that need assistance when there is a high click through and low sales output?

    Sandra: You are right. In fact, if it is worth your time, I would work with the Aff Manager and make sure they get things right on their end as well. Bringing traffic is step one but it's the merchants job to convert the traffic.

    I can only guess but perhaps the merchant is looking to improve their EPC by working with outliers in their stats (ie. affiliates who bring in a lot of clicks and not converting within the normal CR). Again, this is only my guess.

    Good luck!

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com/affiliate.html
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  5. #5
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,219
    Mrs. Happypoon,

    They were not speaking about me with the high click through it was a mass mailing. It really irked me that the New Director is crying EPC straight out the gate.

    To prevent any embarrassment I will use a hypothetical.

    Their company name is GameDepots
    What they actually sell is the jewel boxes for games.

    That is how I see the company and the entire reason for a high click through rate.

    I would have preferred to see a letter stating I am new and how can I help you. Does anyone have any suggestions as to why our conversion rate is so low? Blah blah

    But he did not, he came out ugly and that’s why my hair is all up in the air.

    SandraR


  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,341
    Drop the wanks. They have no idea and will sooner or later pull a Ronald Reagan


    Download Site Map Creator Today

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    92
    Sandra-

    Sounds like the AM tripped on the welcome mat in front of the door of opportunity.

    Why don't you let the AM know of the perception created? I am sure that with teh AM being new that they will be a little more receptive to bending over backwards to accommodate ideas.

    EPC is the quick and dirty solution to turning a program around. The higher EPC will help a merchant position themselves vs. the direct competition within the same vertical (but not necessarily across different verticals).

    Cutting clicks is the short-cut alternative to the longer, more difficult (but so much more rewarding) communication with the end consumer and affiliates that often understand the buyer behavior better.

    I'd let him/her know of the snafu made. Even though they already gave a good indication, teir reaction to your comments ought to be a greater indiciation of how they value their affiliates....and it would be more hysterical reading in here once you post that update

    Keith Wilson
    United Online
    NetZero and Juno Internet

  8. #8
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,540
    Hey Keith,

    Well said!

    Sandra: It's normal for AFF managers to want to work with affiliates who deliver lots of clicks and low sales. It might mean they wanted to help affiliates target the clicks more (pre-sell a different way to help generate a sale once the click has occured). And / or on our end (the merchant end), we may fid that the traffic is high quality, we just need new creatives, tweak / develop a better landing area.

    I thought emailing catagories of affiliates was normal practice? I keep in contact with them all the time about their performance or lack of and try to help anyway I can

    Note: Help = fix / tweak my end and / or offer more tools and ideas to our affiliates.

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com/affiliate.html
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

    [This message was edited by Ian @ EYIProducts on November 17, 2003 at 05:47 PM.]

    [This message was edited by Ian @ EYIProducts on November 17, 2003 at 05:47 PM.]

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,178
    SandraR,

    Why not send an ABW invite to the new AM? Just clue him in on this thread, and that should do it.

    They aren't off to a very good start, hopefully they will do a quick about face and make their program grow instead of placing blame.

    Andy

    _______________
    Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    737
    I don't get it..why would they worry so much about epc's and not the actual sales? We have had a lot of robot clicks lately and there's nothing we can do about it. How much effort can it be for an am when an account isn't sending shoppers.

    A sale is a sale. It doesn't matter if they get 1 or 1000. They could always just lower the commission first and then see what happens.

  11. #11
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,540
    REM, yes you got it. Sales should be the final issue. I guess some programs rely on their EPC heavily to sell tehir program? This is my guess.

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com/affiliate.html
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    92
    REM-

    EPC is an exercise in the economics class we took in college. EPC becomes relvant in the perfect competition model.

    The EPC does make sense within context. Assuming a highly competitive marketplace with similar to exact product offerings, similar payouts, both sites have their ups and downs in terms of user experience and sell through. The EPC is a factor that might be a tie breaker.

    Ultimately, you are right...a sale is a sale and that is all we/merchants are after. EPC is just the shine on the chrome of the car that catches the eye of someone every once in a while. However, everyone knows that you can put a piece of cr*p in a nice box with a bow, but at the end of the day, it is still a piece of cr*p.

    Keith

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Want to make a affiliate program manager sweet? Just ask them to post their honest network wide conversion ratio like TigerDirect and Overstock used to do. Recruiting for a merchnat who averages better then 1 sale per 100 clicks gets active affiliates joining in droves.

    When the BHO's flocked to Overstock, and then allowing affiliate SE spamming techiques, their conversion ratio plummeted. All affiliate traffic if it's not incneted should convert better then a merchants SE clicks. If a merchant averages 1/60 on non-presold SE traffic and only show 1/200 on affiliate clicks they have leakage and reporting issues.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    Bringing traffic is step one but it's the merchants job to convert the traffic.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Affiliateville, USA
    Posts
    7,927
    I know of one CJ company that has never had an affilate manager, being run by their web master instead. They are doing such a great job of running thier program into the ground that I'm about to approach the company management to suggest they give me a try at it. I know I could do better.

    Ummm, anyone have any idea what an outside AM makes? I have no idea. Akiva, any suggestions here? What would I charge them for my services?

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    737
    Ron, there is currently a thread re: what am's make at midnite cafe, maybe you want to post there as well.

    Thank you Keith for re-enlightening me to my past. I was a Finance major and totally forgot to think about that use of EPC. Of course, I do look at an EPC to pick programs, however, maybe a company with a crappy epc needs to figure out why they have that crappy epc, as most do when they have low EPS (earnings per share).

    If they're getting the clicks and not the sale, then that is really the merchants problem not the affiliates.

    Don't you think? When I was recently looking to order bday invitatios for my kids, I found some I liked at a site but it was such a pain to navigate I said screw it and finally went somewhere else. Makes sense don't you think?

    Robin

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    92
    Robin-

    I agree completely with the high clicks poor conversion philosophy. I think that you are right on... completely sounds like a merchant creative problem. A consumer really only has the online experience to gauge the quality of a merchant.

    Keith

  18. #18
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    42
    Like I have stated my opinion before. EPC is the most worthless stat in affiliate marketing. Two sites can have the same amount of visitors, same visitor/sale ratio and have EPC's of 2.00 and 20.00. It all comes down to your site model. My worst EPC merchant pads my bank account 4 thousand every month. Most of my excellent EPC merchants don't sell worth a #$%^. Coincidentally those high EPC merchants don't offer product links. Go figure. High EPC, low traffic. Whatever makes their boat float I guess. They either need to come up with a product link EPC to coincide with a banner EPC or get rid of it altogether. Also they need to bring back the reversal %. They need to tweak that skewed stat though. It should be the % of sales/100 reversed rather than the $commissions/100 reversed. Merchants that were prone to high dollar fraudulent sales took a beating on their reversal %.. # of Sales/100 reversed would be a much better guage for both parties I would think.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    594
    EPC is not a good measure of the success of an affiliate. It is one thing to weed out those that have thousands of clicks and zero sales. Those affiliates should be contacted. Affiliates with thousands of clicks and few sales should be worked with to increase conversion. EPC is more in tune to the merchant, not the affiliate. IMO.

    IamJaloppy

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    An honest networkwide conversion ratio show average clicks to produce a sale is the only valid stat in the affiliate industry. It also highlights a crappy merchant with huge leakage and parasite buddies as well as worthless click generator affiliate traffic coming from the incenters. BHO's manufacturer clicks to hide their activity so they even screw this gem of a stat. That is one stat the AM's other then a few here wish to publish as it verifies diversion/leakage schemes. Hard for a webmaster to tell shop.org or merchant management you sell 1/60 when your hard working pre-sell targeted affiliate traffic is showing 1/500....

    www.suspenders.com averages 1 sale per 23 visitors regardless of traffic source for 3 years. It needs no affiliates to sell due to it's unique patented niche product. Darn shame Walmart has a EPC under $1.00 with a conversion ratio for me of 1/914. Sounds like the Walmart actual management might have an AM problem now thta their e-mail campaigns and soon their BHO's will be trumped by Microsoft IE and Outlook changes.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  21. #21
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    271
    A program's EPC has to be taken into some consideration, but should not be a major factor in deciding to join a program. Of course, a 1 bar merchant with an EPC of less than $1 may not be the best choice of program to promote.

    If you segment affiliates into 3 categories:

    1) Top affiliates who are informed (many are ABW members) who make a living at affiliate marketing

    2) Hard working affiliates who have potential, generate a few sales, but who are not real saavy at affiliate marketing

    3) Newbies and those who will create banner farms but probably not generate much in the way of sales.

    The top affiliates know how to evaluate a program, but won't place too much weight on the EPC. They know the business and know how to spot a company that they think will convert.

    That middle tier of affiliates still places a big emphasis on EPC. They see a high EPC and want to join a program. As an AM, we need to keep a reasonable EPC so that we can attract the affiliates in that middle tier. They do generate sales and might eventually become top performers.

    Finding affiliates is like fishing - the better the bait (epc, commish pct, # actions, cookie duration, parasite free etc.) them more/better fish (affiliates) you will catch.

    As for the bottom tier, these are the one's that original e-mail was probably trying to target.

    Scott Marino
    WebUndies.com
    It's not just underwear, it's fun to wear!

    CJ ~ 12% commission / 60 day cookies / unlimited actions / parasite free

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    92
    Well said Scott. It is the chrome on a car but won't affect how it runs.

    Keith

  23. #23
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    243
    quote:
    Can someone please tell my why any company would believe its the affiliates that need assistance when there is a high click through and low sales output?


    The only time this enters into the scenario for us is when the affiliate's traffic is converting signifcantly lower than our organic traffic, i.e. since we're running just under 1.8% conversion rate, if the affiliate has sent us 1000 clicks without a single sale, then there may be a problem (like perhaps the affiliate is targeting phrases that do not match our products/demo, such as advertising us as wholesale source, etc.).

    Erik

    ==============================
    The AllPiercings.com Affiliate Program: 20% LIFETIME Commissions, 5% 2nd Tier Commissions, Affiliate Store Builder, Raw Datafeeds, and Advanced Tools.
    http://www.Allpiercings.com

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Eric said: "The only time this enters into the scenario for us is when the affiliate's traffic is converting signifcantly lower than our organic traffic, i.e. since we're running just under 1.8% conversion rate, if the affiliate has sent us 1000 clicks without a single sale, then there may be a problem (like perhaps the affiliate is targeting phrases that do not match our products/demo, such as advertising us as wholesale source, etc.)...Erik

    I defy any merchant ever in 7 years getting a click from Ecomcity to weasel out of the sole responsibility to close the referred shopper. Non one endures the slow laod and reads the pre-sell spin is not informed of your offerings before they reach the merchants site. A 3 hour conversation in the last 2 days with Overstock's management confirms not one click from my site shouldn't be a good prospect if the creative tracks right and lands where it's supposed too. Tracing 412 clicks from this page to OS led to zero sales in one of their top selling fully stocked categories. www.ecomcity.com/watches.htm uses all their creative types and in 5 days they've not been able to sucessfully test purchase one transaction from the links. DUGH... Maybe there is a reason the top paying and converting merchants call me as they know there are no tricks for clicks traffic from my site. I also advised them to change their 5 top selling product DRMs and feature the top dollar value sellers rather then the lame top "qty sold" cheapos they tried for 2 years. Seems they listen to my explaining how this one strategy makes Costo Club whip Walmart's Sam's Club year after year since 1983 in the name brand closeout/overstock retail space.

    The merchant and their AM is 100% responsible for the conversion ratio as shoppers do not waste time unless their interest is perked on clicking sales links. Piss poor conversions, from a ton of clicks, come from duped and deceived shoppers by sleezy affiliates.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on November 20, 2003 at 11:21 AM.]

  25. #25
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    243
    quote:
    The merchant and their AM is 100% responsible for the conversion ratio as shoppers do not waste time unless their interest is perked on clicking sales links


    Agreed. However, if a customer is "pre-sold" incorrectly (i.e. the customer is borught to the site via a link/page that describes something we DO NOT OFFER) then the low conversion ratio is directly affected by the affiliate, not our site.

    Fact is, if 95%+ of all affiliates are tracking a conversion rate inline with what we are experiencing, common sense would dictate that the 5% who are below average are in some way not sending qualified traffic.

    Erik

    ==============================
    The AllPiercings.com Affiliate Program: 20% LIFETIME Commissions, 5% 2nd Tier Commissions, Affiliate Store Builder, Raw Datafeeds, and Advanced Tools.
    http://www.Allpiercings.com

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Director of Affiliate marketing
    By Dfelix in forum Job Postings
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 15th, 2012, 11:53 AM
  2. Affiliate Director Needed!
    By ChrisNetWhiz in forum Job Postings
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 8th, 2012, 02:22 PM
  3. New Affiliate Director.. Check it
    By MyWhiteWalls in forum Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 25th, 2008, 07:04 PM
  4. Director, Affiliate Program
    By Andy-SierraTradingPost.com in forum Job Postings
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 23rd, 2004, 07:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •