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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    I'm assuming I can post it here coz it was sent out to all affiliates.

    quote:
    Greetings affiliates,

    At CWDKids.com we have been working hard lately to remove websites that install software on people’s computers in order to gain commission on the sales that are made through the CWDKids.com website. These so-called “parasite ware” affiliates are known to do things such as overwrite other affiliate links, pop-up unwanted ads on customers’ computers, and reduce the overall return of the CWDKids.com affiliate program. We have also found that many of these affiliates are taking repeat-customer commissions in what theoretically should be a sale credited directly to CWD. This type of activity is unfair to both CWD and our other affiliates.

    As these suspicious affiliates have been removed, many of your programs have improved. Many of you have also stepped up to the plate during this time to take advantage of this situation, and your effort is applauded. I encourage all affiliates to take advantage of this new opportunity and find ways to increase the visibility of CWDKids.com in your own affiliate program. Please e-mail me if you would like any hints or pointers in doing this – I am here to help you.

    To further counter “parasite ware”, we will be re-issuing our affiliate terms next week with all of our affiliates so that only lead customers will generate commissions for you as our affiliates. If you feel this term agreement will not work for you I encourage you to contact me and we’ll see if we can work things out regarding this matter.

    As your representative for CWD, I will continue to do my best to help each of you continue the sales you have produced in the past. Please don’t hesitate to call or e-mail me for tips, ideas, or questions you have regarding this matter.

  2. #2
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Program Term: 5% commission on lead sales only

    1. Action: Sale

    Action Criteria Not Specified
    Action Referral Period 120 day(s)
    Action Referral Occurrences 1 time(s)
    Commission 5.00%


    it's a one-shot deal anyway -- do you stand to lose much?


    _____
    I earned something? Who screwed up?

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sammy,

    Email the AM a link to this thread, Why?

    1. I'll give them a free forum for a year, email blast and banner ads here ($2K value).

    2. Let the AM, and Merchant Lurkers see the benefit of being ParasiteWare Free from real traffic and affiliates!

    3. You get a Pware Tshirt, PM me a name, size and addy.

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Herb:
    it's a one-shot deal anyway -- do you stand to lose much?


    Fighting ParasiteWare isn't about what "you" stand to loose ... it's about all affiliates stand to loose as well as the merchant in the long run along with the thrust of the industry ... clean or dirty!

    A 120 day cookie is nice, my offer still stands!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    quote:
    Program Term: 5% commission on lead sales only

    1. Action: Sale

    Action Criteria Not Specified
    Action Referral Period 120 day(s)
    Action Referral Occurrences 1 time(s)
    Commission 5.00%



    that can be fixed and ask the Am to consider unlimited occurrences!

    either way it's better than the merchants associated with parasites, you'll not gonna get not even one time!

    ------------------------------
    What does the COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commissions.
    Don't worry! Tracking is infected!
    ------------------------------
    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

  6. #6
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Haiko --

    Since I wasn't familiar with this merchant, and I was not able to see the original deal, I was hoping they didn't cut out something in the makeover.

    I'm bothered also by AM's that are only interested in gathering new customers at our expense. It may be that the 1 occurrence was the default at CJ; maybe the AM will reconsider and make it reasonable.

    Regards,

    Herb


    _____
    I earned something? Who screwed up?

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Herb,

    Thank you for posting.

    Allow me to state how programs are sold ... CPA

    Not cost per action but cost per acquisition ... Affiliate marketing is the lowest cost per ACQUISITION model there is.

    Networks sell all their other shoot based on that, no the Cost per Action ... let's get the merchant, who is reasonable and obviously fair, here and present reality to them ... the reality of CPA, I mean the real CPA! and the benefits of it.

    Gimme 20 mins and I can explain it!

    Understand my impetus?

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Haiko your way to generous. CWD Kids sells items with a 100% markup from distributor cost. My sister operates a toy and Hobbie retail store for 20 years and a 39.95 toy costs her 20.00. The 5% tickler fee to getting a new customer to e-mail to death with special promotions and list broker their names costs them less then a few keywords at Overture.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  9. #9
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    Um.... dunno what you guys are looking at?

    Action Referral Occurrences Unlimited

  10. #10
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    OK OK, I know what a sale is for sure. I'm pretty sure I know what a lead is, but what is a "Lead Sale"?

    Mike
    Bovine Bazaar
    Cow gifts and collectibles

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    quote:
    Haiko wrote: Fighting ParasiteWare isn't about what "you" stand to loose ... it's about all affiliates stand to loose as well as the merchant in the long run along with the thrust of the industry ... clean or dirty!

    Well said!

    Andy

    _______________
    Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!

  12. #12
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    I appreciate all the support we are getting for this. As was said, our new term is intended to prevent these "parasites" from entering our system. Let me clarify "lead sale" for ojmoo (this was actually clarified earlier in the thread):

    Program Term: 5% commission on lead sales only

    1. Action: Sale

    Action Criteria Not Specified
    Action Referral Period 120 day(s)
    Action Referral Occurrences 1 time(s)
    Commission 5.00%

    In other words, we are leveling the playing field here. Parasites cannot function without repeat sales from the same customers. We have done our research and all those that you would consider "parasites" have consistant repeat commissions from the same customers (to a very large extent). By removing this advantage that they have (which those which have abused this privilidge largely we have already removed anyway), no affiliate is able to outdo our smaller affiliates by methods that the smaller affiliates may not have resource to. The affiliates can now all compete on the same level to bring sales to CWD, and commissions to themselves. Our goal is to help you increase our customers' devotion to CWD, and to improve our brand image even further, hence helping your own commissions and allowing your program to improve.

    I do want to be clear that we want to be fair on this issue. If you think you have proven to bring in alot of New customers I will be happy to work out a deal with you to either increase commissions or increase the number of repeat sales from those customers allowed. Please contact me and we can work this out if you think it applies.

    I think the best support we can receive from this move is to have more of you sign up under our affiliate program (http://www.cwdkids.com/servlet/quagg.../_qprm_/noleft) and help promote the CWD brand! (btw - Haiko - I may just take you up on your offer - I'll PM you when I get some time).

    ==============================
    Jesse Stay
    Web Manager
    http://www.cwdkids.com
    jesse@cwdkids.com
    (804)270-7401 ext 310

  13. #13
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Haiko:
    I went to bed early last night because I really needed the sleep, otherwise I would have continued the thread.

    All:
    so now I've had enough sleep and I've reread this thread a number of times and I don't yet see the definition of lead sale here.

    or here --> Action Criteria Not Specified

    If a sale must have come from a qualified lead, what is the time period during which the sale can produce commission?

    I thought cookie duration had to do with the time window for leads. Does it extend to determine the life of leads?

    And I do understand the necessity for an occurrance of one per lead.


    _____
    I make an awful lot of noise for a person with no sales, don't I?

  14. #14
    Affiliate Addict Robert484848's Avatar
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    I am still not sure I understand all this myself.
    What I will say is Thank you CWD for taking a giant step in the right direction. You are in a small group of large companys that will even admit that there is a parasite problem. Please take Haiko up on his offer and together we can send a message to the industry of the true potential of honest affiliate marketing.

    "I did'nt get where I'm at today by worrying about how I'm going to feel tomorrow."

  15. #15
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    You know I was going to join this program, you have a few cow themed items, and a goodly bunch of horse themed products. But this sale lead thing and 1 time referral occurance I am hesitant.

    I'm still not clear on what a lead sale is, what I need is an example. What you wrote was for your stockholders not for us affiliates.

    Here is how I read what you said. Say I (an affiliate) want to have a barbeque (make money). For a barbeque I need lighterfluid (high referral occurence). But there are arsonists (parasites) out there. You know who they are so you won't let them have matches/lighters (toss them out of the program) but incase an arsonist might get through, you will deny everyone lighterfluid.

    Now, since, I'm only getting one sale allowed, what I, as an affiliate, want to do is let my customers to have loyalty to CDW. I want them to have loyalty to me and only click on your site when its time to buy. I want them loyal to me not to you after all there r lots of affiliate programs that offer much more than 5%. Besidfes, I'm an affiliate, I don't do sales, the merchant does that, I do marketing. My job is to get as many people to my site as possible and then send them off to a merchants site who will sell them their products.

    If you give me, unlimited occurance with 120 day cookie, and then I'll gladly send you customers. They could be loyal to you and I will still make money.

    Anyway, for a second time, since you still haven't explained. I know what a sale is: A customer buys a product. I know what6 a lead is: A customer signs up (usually by filling out a form) with something but doesn't necessarily buy anything. But I still don't know what a lead sale is.

    Mike
    Stallion Shoppe
    Horse themed gifts and collectibles

  16. #16
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    quote:
    If a sale must have come from a qualified lead, what is the time period during which the sale can produce commission?


    Hopefully this explains it. Each person that comes through your link will have a cookie set on their computer that will last for 180 days. That customer may not make a purchase the first time, but may come directly to cwdkids.com again either through your link or directly to us, and as long as it is within that 180 days you get the commission. However, we only allow one sale per customer every 180 days that you can get commission for. (as long as that cookie is set on that customer's computer, you are allowed one sale from that customer)

    There are some great ways of promoting this method for affiliates. First, find ways to encourage large transactions to take place so the customer buys alot at one time. Customers that already know what they are looking for tend to be this type of customer. Secondly you can find ways of just attracting new customers and promoting us in that way. But again, if your business plan does not fall into this method of advertising I am willing to try to work something out.

    ==============================
    Jesse Stay
    Web Manager
    http://www.cwdkids.com
    jesse@cwdkids.com
    (804)270-7401 ext 310

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Haiko: Thumbs up to the your offer. With all the b**ching we all do about parasites, support must be offered to merchants who make a [real] attempt to run a clean program.

    Jesse: Kudos on the extermination, a great step. You'll see even more affiliate support when the Action Referral Occurrences and Commission increase!

    WTG!

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
    ---------
    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  18. #18
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    Firstly, congrats on your non-parasite policy!!! I want to say that first.

    Secondly, this is what you are saying I should do:

    If a customer buys something from your site, through my site, I should arrange it so that that customer never sees your banner again for at least 4 months. Hey wait, it is possible, I could read the cookie and then if a customer bought anything from you in the last 4 months I would suppress your banner. Someone must have an example of what the cookie looks like when a sale is made, I'm sure it wouldn't take me more than a 1/2 hour to write the javascript code.

    Is this what you want us to do?

    Mike

  19. #19
    I like traffic lights
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    Obviously what you need to do here is coookie anyone (with a 120 day expiry cookies) that clicks on a CWD CJ link on your site, then anyone who comes to you site who already has that cookie, prevent any mention of CWD from appearing on your site for that person.

    Once the 120 days is up and CWD is prepared to again pay you what you deserve, that 120 day cookie expires, and your site will show them CWD links again.

    ****************************
    Jimmy James Inc. fan club membership # 3312

    "But Jimmy had fancy plans, and pants to match"

  20. #20
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    Care to extend that offer to our 100% parasite free program?

    We are new and need all the help we can get!

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com/affiliate.html
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  21. #21
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, I think it is very fair. They have been honest and up front with what the program has to offer and what it doesn't. What is needed is to look at what they have to offer and decide if the low commission and one sale every 180 days would pay enough to make it worthwhile to promote their program. If not, NEXT! It's up to you.

    I wish more merchants were as forthright.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    Hi CWD Kid,

    I have one question if you don't mind.

    If user came to my site click on your link or banner and purchase and later on came back to my site and click on your link or banner again, do I get another chance if the user buy again?

    Also thank you for booting the parasite!

    ------------------------------
    What does the COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commissions.
    Don't worry! Tracking is infected!
    ------------------------------
    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

  23. #23
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    Ridding ones program of Parasites is honorable! Congratulations. HOWEVER, correct me if I'm wrong.

    Customer comes to affiliates site, clicks merchants link and makes a $40.00 purchase.

    Affiliate makes $2.00

    Same Customer liked the product and service. Customer returns in a couple of weeks and makes a $100.00 purchase.

    Affiliate makes... Nothing?

    A few weeks later, customer returns and makes a $400.00 purchase.

    Affiliate makes... Nothing?

  24. #24
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    Well I'm a little confused and Jesse I think you are to possibly. You said
    quote:
    We have done our research and all those that you would consider "parasites" have consistant repeat commissions from the same customers (to a very large extent). By removing this advantage that they have (which those which have abused this privilidge largely we have already removed anyway), no affiliate is able to outdo our smaller affiliates by methods that the smaller affiliates may not have resource to.


    I say this is bs because parasites cause a new click which updates the cookie and hence zero action occurances are never applicable to parasites. It sounds to me like your statement said "we're leveling the playing field with zero action occurances" and this isn't the case at all unless perhaps I'm confused.

    Don't get me wrong - I think you're smart getting rid of parasites and as you saw from your own studies, the customers you get on behalf of parasites are not just your customers any more...... because you share revenue on every single sale they make for life or "until such point as you rid yourself as them".

    You've made one good decision to gain more promotion and become more profitable..... My suggestion would be to not stop there. Zero occurances and 5% will not gain you the additional marketing for you to optimize profits on what is already the cheapest way for you to aquire customers.

    You can let me know if I'm the one confused.

    ===================================
    Child labor laws exist yet, parasite partnering merchants (PP Merchants) and the COC allow an adult affiliates income to be diverted into the pockets of parasites and consider it normal business!

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants and the COC directly supports what many consider unfair trade practices, identity theft and thievery!

  25. #25
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think you should just kick the parasites out of your program and offer reasonable commission and cookie duration to non-parasite affiliates and forget this "zero action occurances" stuff like all the other programs that want to make money fairly.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

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