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  1. #1
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    I just found out that Irv's Luggage will be extending all transactions from 11/15 through 12/31 because they are worried about holiday returns. Typically the do not extend any transactions, but they have made an exception over the holidays so affiliates do not get paid in a timely fashion.

    Let's all thank Irv's for their well thought out anti-affiliate strategy. And, oh, yes and also for changint their payment terms over the holidays so our commission can "temporarily" be hi-jacked. I for one cannot believe this especially due to the fact that luggage has such a lower industry return rate.

    Irv's won't have to worry about returns being too high over the holidays from us, we are boycotting them for the rest of the year. Problem solved.

  2. #2
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    I don't have a problem with it, makes sense to me, a lot of people return XMAS stuff. It's not like they're not going to pay you, just have to wait a little longer. No biggie.

    I work in lounge pants

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    What Trust said. I'd rather see a reversal in January than a negative sum in my CJ account.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    I agree with Trust & JJJay. Given Linda's sterling reputation, I see no reason to be concerned. Of course, we don't need our commission checks to pay the bills, so I'm sure it might be different for other folks.

    Karl Smith
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  5. #5
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    Wow, so we are the only affiliate that thinks that a sudden change in payment terms is at least a bit alarming? Perhaps we are the only affiliate who prefers to get paid in regular timely fasion. You guys are either not concerned with monitoring cash flow or perhaps don't sell enough of their product line to be concerned with a small amount of payment being postponed.

    I have no issues with Linda, she does a good job from all I know but that has nothing to do with the real issue.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Survey:
    Please do not paint me (or my company) with such broad strokes based on a single posting on ABW.

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
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  7. #7
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    I agree with both sides here. I don't think changing terms mid stream (and I don't recall notification but could be wrong) is a good practice at all.

    I also have a great deal of respect for Linda and the Irv's program and will partner with them over others in a heart beat - I'm not going to worry over this with them as they have more than earned our trust.

    The one thing I do specifically disagree with is this statement:

    "You guys are either not concerned with monitoring cash flow or perhaps don't sell enough of their product line to be concerned with a small amount of payment being postponed."

    It may be that we sell more than enough not to have to be concerned with cash flow .

    ===================================
    Great News - we can now support ebates and pp merchants - they are cleaning up their act and I'll bet it'll be a long time before we see another clip of ebates overwriting affiliate links.
    ===================================

  8. #8
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Whoa, didn't even know this thread was going.

    SurveyMan,

    Irvs did not change their payment terms and is not high-jacking anyone's commission. They extended transactions for 1/2 of Nov and all of December. Some companies extend all transactions all the time. This is TEMPORARY.

    ----------------------------------------------

    I’m sorry but I don’t do transactions for Irvs. The Director of Marketing does
    and the company is worried about potential holiday returns so is extending sales for Nov 15th – 30th and the month of December. This should just be temporary through the holiday buying and gift return period.

    Anyone who knows me, knows I did not want this to happen and did not vote to extend transactions. I do whatever I can to get you all more commission any way I can. This was not an anti-affiliate move, although I realize and am VERY sorry it delays your commissions for a month. But the company cannot afford to pay commissions on products that it does not make a final sales on. Irvs has a generous return policy and many people do not get around to returning gifts in a timely manner. If they have to refund the money, therefore get no profit, they cannot afford to still payout a commission. There is no profit to pay it from.

    -----------------------------------------
    I let everyone know in advance in my newsletter.
    http://www.linkserving.com/irvs/newsletter.htm

    ------------------------------------------
    As always I send my newsletter twice. I pay to send it to people’s direct email plus send it through the CJ mail system. I send it two different ways to ensure it gets to as many people as possible. Still some don't get it and some don't read it.

    I am very sorry that you are so upset. Thank you everyone else for your support and understanding in this matter.

    Linda Buquet :: 714.754.1280 :: AM Consulting, Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: 13 High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Programs
    HUGE Holiday Sales Contest. WIN BIG PRIZES! Click Here!

    [This message was edited by Catalyst on December 17, 2003 at 06:47 PM.]

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Survey Man:
    Wow, so we are the only affiliate that thinks that a sudden change in payment terms is at least a bit alarming?

    Extensions aren't new, been there done that, how many companies don't extend transactions. I wouldn't worry about it, you can trust Linda, she'll make sure you get paid. As far as boycotting them, isn't that going overboard.

  10. #10
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    People - extensions ARE new for Irv's so please stop covering it up like it is "no big deal" because some other company does it. The point is that Irv's does not and has not and now, just because they have decided they want to, they are changing payment terms by extending all transactions for a month and a half period.

    Let's not delude ourselves on this. I understand completely that Linda is a great AM but that does not justify the actions of Irv's marketing director whatsoever. And we cannot let that remove the very issue itself.

    It doesn't sit well and shouldn't with any afffilate here. What if this becomes a trend and more merchants delay payment over the holidays? Look at this from the bigger picture as this has potential cause and effect across the industry if it begins to happen more...

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Typically, payment terms are 90 days. If a company usually pays earlier, then decideds to take the full 90 days, that's a perfectly acceptable business practice. I would treat this event as such.

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
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    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  12. #12
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    For the record even though I don't have anything to ad to this I'm leaning towards surveymans point.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    SurveyMan,

    They did NOT change payment terms, they extended transactions for the last HALF of the month in Nov. They didn’t even do the whole month.

    I’m sorry but you make it sound like they did this intentionally to avoid paying for a month. That is not how it works. Commissions come out of their account as soon as sales are made.They will not save any money by doing this except commissions for sales that end up not going through.

    I just went into CJ to see if there is anything I can do about the ONE sale you made
    the 2nd half of the month that was extended. Even if I approved that ONE sale now, it’s too late since CJ has already processed December.

    Since the $8.79 commission we owe you for Nov. is obviously causing a serious hardship, I would be happy to cancel that sale and just pay you the commission directly OUT OF MY OWN POCKET. PM me your mailing address and I will cut you a personal check today.

    They were only trying to protect already eroding holiday margins by not losing any extra money paying out commission on gift sales that fall through. The intention was not to hurt anyone or upset them.

    If any other ABWebbers are going to suffer a severe hardship due to December extensions, please PM me and I will get the company to exclude your transactions from being extended in Dec. All you need to do is let me know this will cause you a financial hardship and I will take care of it for you. It appears for most of you this is a
    NON-Issue, but if it’s a concern I will help you.

    Linda Buquet :: 714.754.1280 :: AM Consulting, Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: 13 High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Programs
    HUGE Holiday Sales Contest. WIN BIG PRIZES! Click Here!

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador ToughTurkey's Avatar
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    How are payment terms being changed when they have always had the option through CJ of extending trxns.

    Just because they haven't extended in the past, they have every right to at any time like everyone else.

  15. #15
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    Linda, there is no need to step over the bounds of professionalism and try (erroneously) to point us out. I am surprised at your lack of propriety on this issue. This issue is one that potentially affects all affiliates and merchants depending on the potential for this to become a wider trend over the holidays. Although the change is only temporarily extending sales for a month in a half and is within Irv's privy it does not hide that fact that it is a still change in its day to day policy. Just because something is allowed does not necessary infer that it is the right way to go.

    Again, there is a much larger issue that has great potential to be far reaching and I seriously doubt that if half of our merchant partners (as an example) went this route over the holidays that those holding the line would still be doing so...

  16. #16
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Survey Man,

    A CJ merchant that I worked for as an employee, not a consultant extended ALL transactions EVERY month due to their 45 day return poolicy. I didn't like it and fought it but had no choice. As it tuned out I did not get complaints from affiliate bcause they understood and because alot of merchants do this.

    Irvs has been wanting to start extending all transaction every month. I have been against it and have been able to hold the line. But they have been in business over 50 years and they know their customer trends and they know how high holiday returns are.

    So they made the decision to extend just for the holiday. I told them the affect this would have on affiliates, but they have an equal responsibility to their bottom line.

    They cut prices to the bone for the holidays to boost sales, so margin is tight. They will pay out lots of extra commission bonuses due to holiday sales. They pay out extra commission on phone sales, when hardly any other merchant does. They simply cannot afford to pay out commissions for sales that fall through. If they don't get the money, then they cannot pay the commission.

    Many months they just have to eat the loss due to the CJ 10th of the month lock date. Over the holidays with what they know from over 50 years of experience will cause extra high return rates they just can't.

    I can see their side and I can see yours and I am stuck in the middle. I work for them, I don't own the company. I did what I could to try to prevent this. I'm not sure what else I can do.

    BTW, I doubt just because one merchant does it, it will cause a trend. In fact no one would even know about this if you had not made it a big issue. Based on the feedback from my other affiliates that posted, no one else has a big issue with it and would probably not have posted. Now all the other CJ merchants are reading this and may be evaluating it. So possibly you will help to start a new trend. I hope not though.

    I have been an affiliate in the past and I hated reversals and extensions as much as anyone. That's why I refuse to process trasactions for any of my merchants. If they need to reverse a sale, they are the ones that have to do it. I don't have it in me.

    Linda Buquet :: 714.754.1280 :: AM Consulting, Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: 13 High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Programs
    HUGE Holiday Sales Contest. WIN BIG PRIZES! Click Here!

    [This message was edited by Catalyst on December 18, 2003 at 01:02 PM.]

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Now I know why I never got into the affiliate management business Linda I wish you and all the other patient affiliate managers a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.

  18. #18
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  19. #19
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    I really don't make a whole lot with this company but had a bit extended during the time in question.
    Lots of merchants do it, I don't see a major issue, especially since Linda has offered to try and find a way out for people serious hurt by the decision.

    ...............
    WW

    Make a difference! Support your local Cancer Care providers.

  20. #20
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    Linda I have been in this business long enough to know that affiliate managers speak with other affiliate managers and we have seen it time and time again where one merchant implements a new policy or change and other AM's from other companies ask how it went and soon it can be widespread. Don't fool yourself into believing that no AM's would have known about this if it weren't for this post and don't attempt to push blame on us from bringing this to light. That is all too narrow minded and again seems to steer blame rather than address the actual issue.

    And so there are four who have posted here who agree with the policy, or rather don't mind it, but I count an equal number who do not agree and are concerned. You are one of them, as you stated how you fought against Irv's going this route. Then there are three others who agree with the points I have made (though perhaps not all). So if we are keeping score that is 4 viewpoints in favor and 4 not.

    I do understand some of the issues that you have mentioned with returns and the holiday season and I also work with a larger number of merchants across CJ and the other major networks. Not one of the merchants we work with have chosen to extend transactions for 45 extra days. We are glad for this as if this did happen it might make it difficult for some affiliates to manage their cash flow during the high season...An equally important issue to an affiliate as for merchants during high volume months. And I also know you are not able to change Irvs mind on this issue, but that doesn't change the facts. I am not, and have not, blamed you for this temporary change in policy.

    For those of you that are full time affiliates or that are looking at the long term value of this issue, I know you understand where I am coming from on this. And although single handedly Irv's is not affecting any one of us to make an impact, we need to all consider the affects of the potential widespread application in coming season.

  21. #21
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    I personally think that if anyone has a problem with what has been done, that they need to take it up with the one who made the decision. Linda is clearly not that person.

    So why keep on posting on here? Go and get in touch with the person responsible

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

  22. #22
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Just to clarify "extend transactions for 45 extra days," is in-correct.

    Nov 15-30th transactions were extended for 1 month. Dec transactions are "planned" to be extended 1 extra month. In fact I think I may be able to get them to only extend Dec transactions that are made after the 15th. I will try. This would limit their risk since if someone buys on the 1st of Dec, hopefully they will return within the 30 return period which would be before CJ locks transactions Jan. 10th.

    Last minute sales that happen, lets say Dec 21st - have a whole month to be returned therefore would create a negative cash flow for Irvs since they could be returned after CJ locks on the 10th of January.

    I will try my best to make this happen.

    Linda Buquet :: 714.754.1280 :: AM Consulting, Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: 13 High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Programs
    HUGE Holiday Sales Contest. WIN BIG PRIZES! Click Here!

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    looks in November extended commissions
    Irvs is not alone
    Lifestyle Fascination Online
    The Shopping Channel
    Dreamtime Baby Affiliate Program
    GoCollect.com
    CheaperThanDirt.com

    If I show six, more than like likelty there are a hundred more
    Why not rake them all over the coals as this isn't just an Irvs issue by my records

    ...............
    WW

    Make a difference! Support your local Cancer Care providers.

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