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  1. #1
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    I am still learning so much about the affiliate world. I have seen a list of so many different companies who are on Ebates. Is every single one to be avoided?
    Does someone have a list that includes all merchants that should not be promoted?

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    For myself I would have to be insane to avoid their entire list of merchants. 80% of my income is from that list.

    "If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet you could shoot beer out of you nose." Jack Handy

  3. #3
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    To make it simple. Avoid showcasing ANY merchant who supports and monitizes the "incent" BHO's. The short of it is that those merchants have cookie cutting exposure on over 300 million shoppers systems. Figure everyone of those systems as a built in affiliate competitor working against you!!!

    Every single install of a BHO or a BHO Ad blocker will dilute your sales efforts. This is why the networks are shooting themselves in the foot by claiming they attract new affiliates to merchants. The damn BHO's make their recruitment efforts look like pissing into a hurricane wind as they garner in the majority of the commissions by hijacking traffic at the point of sale.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  4. #4
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    If I avoided all the merchants on that list, I wouldn't have much of a mall type site left.
    I don't want to lose money (obviously) However, like Heyder stated, 80% of the income comes from merchants on that list.
    As I learn more, it becomes harder to decide what to do. Personal Creations are on that list, and I have made more money with them than anyone other.

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

  5. #5
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heyder:
    For myself I would have to be insane to avoid their entire list of merchants. 80% of my income is from that list.

    "If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet you could shoot beer out of you nose." Jack Handy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    There in lies the reality of this game.

    Where do you draw the line?

    Where is the balance?

    Is there a line?

    Is there ethics?

    Morals?



    If money, generating income is 98% of the reason to be in affiliate marketing, does it matter from which merchant that come from?

    Would you as an affiliate divert and funnel ALL your website traffic to one or a group of merchants that are not parasiticly (sp?) attached?

    Why or why not?

    If no, then you must realize that be feeding your traffic to these merchants that are in relationships with these companies, in turn, you are helping to sustain and nourish the further development of the same cancer that is eating our industry apart - no?

    Again, where do you draw the line?

    Is it worth it for merchants to stand up for ethics, remove parasitic affiliates from their programs to protect their affiliates - when those same affiliates the merchant is trying to protect are feeding that merchant's competitors?

    Where do you draw the line?

    How do you think we merchants feel when we visit your sites and find our parasitic competitors plastered all over your sites. I can't speak for any other merchants here, perhaps they will chime in, however i can account for over $500 K in revenue that i have removed from my program because it was the ethical thing to do. Because stealing is stealing no matter how you spin it.

    So, Mr. Affiliate, yes, you reading this post right now - will i find my affiliate stealing parasitic competitors on your site?

    If you don't start responding and acting like a true partnership with your parasite free merchants, don't blame them for later looking for that source of revenue that you won't give them because you are dilluting and feeding their competitors on your sites.

    Personally, I can count the affiliates on this board that have Tiger exclusive offers on their sites and have sites dedicated to TigerDirect exclusively. You know who you are - in fact, you are the ones consistently on the top 25 monthly list !!

    To you i say, thank you, your loyalty will be rewarded...

    To the rest of you: Where do you draw the line? How long will you continue to be part of the problem and not the solution ?



    Sorry for the rant, but the double standard is really getting old !!!


    << Heyder, not targeted at you, you just opened the door >>

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  6. #6
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    CJ,

    Look at your numbers and make a business decision (Sounds like you are). What makes the most economic sense from your standpoint?

    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  7. #7
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    Andy,

    Most of the affiliates I talk to make the decision based on pure economics. They will continue working with merchants that produce for them. They cannot afford to turn off the relationships that drive their business. Just as the networks would have a hard time turning off big hitters because without them the volume through a network would go markedly down.

    Just as many marketers continue to work with places like Overture even though they have always had what I consider to be "seedy" distribution partners.

    I do agree that the choice lies with the affiliate. It is very easy to drop a relationship if the choice is driven on a purely emotional or ethical basis. People can make their own decisions.

    But over and over again I hear from top affiliates that merchants that work with partners that have client side applications still produce and often product the best. For the moment they don't seem to have any desire to shoot themselves in the foot.

    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
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  8. #8
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    I have at least 6 new web sites in the pipeline. I will make sure that I build them around the decent merchants.
    I will steadily work to remove those merchants on my main site that are 'in bed with' the parasites.
    I really do hate the thought of my hard work going into someone elses pockets.
    The more I learn, the harder it gets.
    However, it is worth it in the long run.
    I will just have to work around those merchants who are parasite free.
    I need a list of those who are free from parasites. Does anyone have one?

    It often does come down to money. I personally can change the way I work, as every single cent I earn from my site is extra income.
    I live in the middle of nowhere, and I don't drive. I am from England, living in America.
    The money that I earn from my web site is now over $1,000 per month (just done 3 months in a row earning over $1,000)
    That is a hell of a lot of money when I was getting nothing before I started this.

    I came to this country with nothing. I married a women I 'met' online. I came to this country to start a new life

    The money is great. However, the thought of someone else stealing what is rightfully mine is something that I am not prepared to do.

    This is supposed to be land of opportunity. However, it is also the land of parasiteware.
    There will always be people who are greedy enough not to care about where their money comes from (I am not talking about affiliates here)
    I will change the way I run my site. It may actually turn out to provide me with a lot more money.

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

    [This message was edited by cjshoppingnetwork on May 08, 2003 at 02:07 PM.]

  9. #9
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wayne Porter- AffTrack:
    They will continue working with merchants that produce for them. They cannot afford to turn off the relationships that drive their business.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    So, merchants by the same standard can and should continue to work with these technology partners - no?

    Do we throw ethics out the window?

    I do make a commission on total sales from my program, why would i turn away 500K in revenue that puts food on my families table?

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  10. #10
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cjshoppingnetwork:
    I came to this country with nothing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, you are wrong....

    You came with ethics and morals !!

    Way to go, look for an e-mail from me...

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  11. #11
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    Bravo Andy

    I think this is one of the most inspiring things I've read in ages. Andy is absolutely right. If we are to really get rid of these parasitic programs, then, as affiliates, we should also NOT deal with the merchants who allow them free reign. If enough people do it, then the problem goes away. But if we remain hypocritally promoting the merchants who sign them up, then what possible incentive is there for the merchants to purge themselves. It seems to me that there is a case for a list of merchants who encourage these parasites to be maintained together perhaps with a list of 'clean' merchant alternatives. If enough people switched, then there would be far more pressure for merchants to join the 'clean' list - to ALL of our advantages.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Andy:
    Off topic - did you get my e-mail re: ID #?

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


    So, merchants by the same standard can and should continue to work with these technology partners - no?

    Do we throw ethics out the window?

    I do make a commission on total sales from my program, why would i turn away 500K in revenue that puts food on my families table? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Andy,

    I am not engaging in ethical debate, merely pointing out the market reality.

    In terms of revenue turned away. If parasites are truly intercepting 500k of revenue a month then that revenue should simply be shifted to the other affiliates partners? Unless you are referring to revenue that might have been lost based on software targeting traffic that came to your core URL.

    Are you saying that after kicking out these partners your revenues went down to the tune of 500k with no real signs of redistribution to affiliates?


    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
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  14. #14
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    As members of A Best Web, the people on here have a lot of combined experience. If everyone works together to rid the affiliate world of those who are parasite ridden, then certainly, the problem will be minimised.
    We need to maintain a list of those merchants who are parasite free, rather than trying to figure out who is not parasite free.

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If we are to really get rid of these parasitic programs, then, as affiliates, we should also NOT deal with the merchants who allow them free reign. If enough people do it, then the problem goes away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It is not a case of enough people, it must be a case of the right people. The right people shape the market, in this case the right people are the powerful revenue producers.

    I am not disregarding the smaller affiliate, but pointing out the strongest affiliates have the most leverage. It has always been this way in any business or market. Therefore they are the ones that would need to shift their stance for mass change to take place.

    From a pragmatic view I don't see this happening...yet.

    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
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  16. #16
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wayne Porter- AffTrack:
    Are you saying that after kicking out these partners your revenues went down to the tune of 500k with no real signs of redistribution to affiliates?

    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    << Love this >>

    Wayne, i'm saying that if today i add the list of affiliates i have removed, i won't hash out names here, but it is widely known and in the archives of this board, that it amounts to over 500K in monthly revenue.

    Whether it has been redistributed or not, to what % i can't tell, my program has grown month after month in revenue generated even while removing those 80K- 100K per month partners.

    Whatever % has been re distributed, has been dilluted by those same partners featuring our competitors....

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  17. #17
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phillyBurbs.com:
    Andy:
    Off topic - did you get my e-mail re: ID #?

    Karl Smith
    _http://www.phillyburbs.com_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    yes, answered you back...it's in the original e-mail containing the links

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wayne, i'm saying that if today i add the list of affiliates i have removed, i won't hash out names here, but it is widely known and in the archives of this board, that it amounts to over 500K in monthly revenue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    sure. noted.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Whether it has been redistributed or not, to what % i can't tell, my program has grown month after month in revenue generated even while removing those 80K- 100K per month partners. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Andy. Ok the crux of the problem here is that many managers want to know what amount of revenue will be redistrubted through the partner base if these relationships are being turned off.

    At this point I take it you don't know. While your program is growing I could also attribute that to your active management style.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Whatever % has been re distributed, has been dilluted by those same partners featuring our competitors....
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Don't get me wrong I understand why you did it and in addition a case could be made that some of these applications are counter-brand. (There are other counter-brand issues: PPCSE's, coupons, etc)

    But you're also saying that by dropping these relationships you have effectively conceded this territory to your competitors? This is another reason why many companies might not be jumping in. The proverbial RISK board game- "I don't want to try to hold Europe, but I would rather take it then leave it to my enemies."

    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
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  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'm obviously the one ABWer who has to bite the bullet and showcase 2 major affiliate enabled merchants to report the effects of parasites on their traffic. One is TigerDirect and the other is OverStock. Both were a test to verify the integrety of reporting at BeFree and Linkshare when the AM's took the continuous effort to verify sales tracking for the benefit of all here.

    My network stats show when Overstock has the parasites acting outside the CoC. My stats also show that in no way does TD's conversion ratio get effected by 3rd party outside influences. You can see that OS and TD get the majority of the network generated and tracked clicks from EcomCity. TD gets more computer shopper clicks from my savvy shoppers in one week then the his entire competitor base gets in 6 months. Only IBM and Computer Geeks ( I'm in a running battle with them on faulty reporting) combine for a max of 50 clicks a day and Dell or Computers-4Sure doesn't deserve the 40 a month they get. Hey my shoppers do sometime demand the newest offerings.

    MTD stats for LS
    Report Totals all 87 merchants: impressions=116,622 clicks=824 0.71% sales=2 14 (0) 0.24% $247.45 commission=$12.37 and those 2 sales came from Sierra Trading post on 15 clicks.

    Overstock MTD...
    Overstock.com, Inc. impressions=68,443 clicks=615 0.90% sales=0 0 0 0.00% commission=$0.00 with the following types of creatives:
    Link Type Report


    5/1/2003 - 5/8/2003

    Link Type Impressions Click-Throughs C/I(%) # of Orders # of Items # of Items Canceled O/C(%) Sales($) Commissions($)
    Active Display 0 0 0.00 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Banner 8,388 103 1.23 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Dynamic Rich Media 17,007 55 0.32 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    EMAIL 0 0 0.00 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    LinkBuilder 3,063 55 1.80 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Manual/Unassigned 0 0 0.00 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Merchandiser 0 0 0.00 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Other Html 0 0 0.00 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Product 32,465 269 0.83 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Searchbox 1,996 88 4.41 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    StoreFront 0 0 0.00 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Text 5,524 45 0.81 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00
    Report Totals: 68,443 615 0.90 0 0 (0) 0.00 $0.00 $0.00

    Am I able to accurately report to the group that maybe eBates or some reporting glitches are working against me? I think so and know OS will have to look deeper into it. Same time frame and traffic last month produced 5 sales.

    ____________________________________


    Befree's activity MTD: Transaction Summary by Merchant Report Description

    Network Total: impressions=89,189 clicks=1,541 orders=11 shipped sales=$1,679.75 returns=0 paid clicks=129 0 commission=$71.14

    TigerDirects portion of the above:
    05/01/2003-05/07/2003 TigerDirect.com impressions= 42,521 clicks=1,083 sales= 11 shipped sales=$1,679.75 0 0 0 commission=$67.19

    Slow month as the same time last month was showing 15 sales and $2235.80 in sales and YTD I average a conversion ratio of 1/66 for TigerDirect. All last year I averaged 1/62 so they are steady as a rock....and parasite free.


    The online shopping world loves Overstock and sporatically for my ytraffic they even outperform TigerDirect on commissions even if not in conversion ratio. This observation is validated by their being in the top 50 shopping destinations on the internet.

    So I may have some parasitic merchants competing with TD, but they'll never again be able to get showcased on my sites. You can bet if OS goes 100% parasite free in 2003 they will convert for normal affiliates like me. Heck Akiva of Essential Apparel converts at a steady 1/60. The other 550 merchants on the 3 network showcased by the BHO parasites are not worth the effort to revolve seasonal displays as sales are the exception.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Interest thread seeking the holy grail of ethical affiliate marketing. Most here know me as Mr Whiner between my rants. Those who really know me are convienced I can generate new ideas that work for any and all industries. Comes from actually selling and installing those puters' Andy sells to automate businesses for 30 years. Lot's of temp CEO hats on my head, cause you can't sucessfully automate what you don't understand.

    Now that I know I have my man, who can put the ideas with traction to the pavement in Andy, I'll throw out a real solution. It will financially benefit all involved without any huge investment.

    The Holy Grail affiliate network.

    1. Eliminate all reporting problems by using a common shopping cart program for all merchants. Eliminate all merchant middlemen and aggregators by requiring the network to authorize only direct fulfillment merchants. This also benefits shoppers as they deal with the actual seller on returns and warranty issues. Monthly cart/hosting fee per merchant is 20.00 plus any payment gateway service.

    2. Make it simple for a merchant to select which products he wants on this product only network buy placing a preferred shoppers "buy button" with pull down options list on his static pages by a simple HTML insert. If need be create a seperate domain or landing page sections on existing web site. All 7 return day cookies are set from within the secure shopping cart from the affiliate creative links imprevious to BHO hijackers. Cart allows for database uploads/downloads and interfaces to all merchant payment gateways.

    3. Eliminate burdening the network merchants with "incented" higher cost traffic forcing all affiliates to add value beyond some coupon/rebate/points/reward or donation traffic scheme. Merchants can either lower selected product prices, offer free freight or raise commissions rates from current levels.

    4. Allow for banner-text or direct product creative linking with option to direct traffic to any page on merchants site even from network tracking programs like Kowabunga. Releasing the creativity of the affiliate webmaster. All sales get a immediate affiliate confirmation of sale via e-mail negating constant monitoring of network reports.

    5. Timely monthly payouts above 25.00 minimum by requiring all merchants wire transfer funds by the 15th of the following month on earned commissions. Management fee of 20% on commission payout goes to Andy's adninistration group.

    6. Merchants can interface this perferred network products within existing site or add these products into a hosted advertised Cybermall type domain.

    7. The Holly Grail network gets a ABW section for it's forum and recruiting efforts. Both affiliate and merchant applications are carefully screened by Andy's group and all trademarks rights are upheld within the SE keyword listings.

    It might start small but the merchants who qualify sure will get sales right off the bat and affiliates of all flavors are assured of converting links and happy returning shoppers.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  21. #21
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Is it worth it for merchants to stand up for ethics, remove parasitic affiliates from their programs to protect their affiliates - when those same affiliates the merchant is trying to protect are feeding that merchant's competitors? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hi all. Andy, I'm new as they get and am trying to get up to speed on this whole "affiliate thing." But when I read your post above, it sort of struck me as the fundamental question that any business owner must ask himself. "What am I willing to do to be successful?" 18 months from now I'd love to be making obscene piles of cash, but there's a limit as to what I'm willing to do to make it. It's refreshing to see that you/Tiger Direct have stepped up to the plate to do the obvious right thing by NOT affiliating youselves with people who choose to operate in (ahem..) "ethical gray areas."

    Kudos to you. And, I've applied to your program this evening based in no small part on your stated position on this matter, and upon acceptance will give Tiger Direct EXCLUSIVE exposure on my site, where applicable.

    Regards,

  22. #22
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brickthruplateglasswindow:
    and upon acceptance will give Tiger Direct EXCLUSIVE exposure on my site, where applicable.

    Regards,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Brick.., If you are from "Long Pine", i just approved you..

    I'm available to you to help you grow, learn and develop a solid relationship.

    Thank you Sir !!

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Brick.., If you are from "Long Pine", i just approved you.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Andy,

    Ya lost me on the "long pine" thing, but if you're ever in the "717" Area Code, look me up. ;-)

    Regards,

  24. #24
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brickthruplateglasswindow:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Brick.., If you are from "Long Pine", i just approved you.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Andy,

    Ya lost me on the "long pine" thing, but if you're ever in the "717" Area Code, look me up. ;-)

    Regards,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Wrong application approved, i was approving some apps from home and i thought one of those was you..

    Well, i approved them all :-)

    Welcome to TigerDirect's affiliate program !!

    Welcome to our family !

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Jeez someone proved they can go this product only merchant network within a week. Not sure of all the particulars..http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...513#7336020513

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

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